R/E/P Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5   Go Down

Author Topic: Transparent Audio, meet Dr. Zobel of Bell Labs...  (Read 49368 times)

Innominandum

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 52
Re: Transparent Audio, meet Dr. Zobel of Bell Labs...
« Reply #45 on: August 04, 2004, 02:27:53 pm »

That was a pretty cool site, I liked the cable reviews. AVCable cables, the cheapest cable reviewed, often beat-out cables many times its price. Especially in the 1 Hz to 20 kHz range. I also enjoyed the fact they were complaining about speaker cable phase performance at 8 MHz.
Logged

davidc

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 168
Re: Transparent Audio, meet Dr. Zobel of Bell Labs...
« Reply #46 on: August 07, 2004, 06:59:57 am »

bblackwood wrote on Wed, 04 August 2004 16:06

 In theory, it should be no different...




Well I would have thought the ground loop between the amp and the speakers could easily make a difference!

Best Regards

David C
Logged

bblackwood

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7036
Re: Transparent Audio, meet Dr. Zobel of Bell Labs...
« Reply #47 on: August 07, 2004, 08:22:33 pm »

davidc wrote on Sat, 07 August 2004 05:59

bblackwood wrote on Wed, 04 August 2004 16:06

 In theory, it should be no different...


Well I would have thought the ground loop between the amp and the speakers could easily make a difference!

You wanna run that one by me again?
Logged
Brad Blackwood
euphonic masters

OatBran

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 21
Re: Transparent Audio, meet Dr. Zobel of Bell Labs...
« Reply #48 on: August 07, 2004, 09:59:15 pm »

hmm... I might be off a little here, but isn't putting something inline of the monitoring system that colors the sound be exactly what a mastering engineer DOESN'T want?  Regardless of whether or not it sounds 'better'?
Logged

Bill Yacey

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 46
Re: Transparent Audio, meet Dr. Zobel of Bell Labs...
« Reply #49 on: August 08, 2004, 01:40:28 am »

A zobel network is meant to flatten out the impedance of the speaker over a wide range of frequencies. Better quality passive crossovers utilize these, but they have to be custom tailored for specific drivers. There isn't an off the shelf solution for all speakers.
Bill
Logged
"Adjust R116 for least smoke."

mastermind

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 346
Re: Transparent Audio, meet Dr. Zobel of Bell Labs...
« Reply #50 on: August 19, 2004, 11:03:44 am »

dcollins wrote on Wed, 28 July 2004 19:28



A vintage Allen-Bradley carbon comp!

DC


I live/work a few blocks away from Allen-Bradley... I mod all my gear with their components....  

I've been told that at one point the clock on the top of their building (one of the largest buildings in Milwaukee by sq. footage) was the largest four sided clock in the world.

Anyhew...

For the record I have some posh feu-feu cables between the amps and speakers (MIT's)... mostly just because I needed new speaker cables when I decided to bi-amp the Dunlavy's, and I got a good deal on them. They certainly didn't seem to hurt, and who knows, the sound may have improved.. I thought about doing up my own cables, but then I gotta mess around terminating them which is time I could be spending on the motorbike, and these weren't that expensive, plus they look damn cool.

I think when comparing cables one has to first decide if the "difference" is inside their head or outside.....

trev
Logged
trevor sadler
_________________________________________
mastermindproductions
mastermind on facebook
charlotte, nc., usa

bigaudioblowhard

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1314
Re: Transparent Audio, meet Dr. Zobel of Bell Labs...
« Reply #51 on: April 12, 2005, 12:23:27 am »



I freakin LOVE YOU GUYS!

You are so smart and so funny and, I could never compete on

your level. What makes it even FUNNIER is how knowlegeable most

of you are about electronics, physics, etc.

I always thought there was some kind of RC or LC, T or H thing

in those cables. I was reading about all that about the time

(10 years ago) they started coming out. For the legumes out there

like me Audio Encyclopedia is a great thing to have around when

you need to look up "sharp cutoff pentode".

Without appearing too stupid exactly what are those components

and do they comprise some kind of "passive circuit"?

PP

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1005
Re: Transparent Audio, meet Dr. Zobel of Bell Labs...
« Reply #52 on: April 12, 2005, 08:13:20 am »

Logged

bblackwood

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7036
Re: Transparent Audio, meet Dr. Zobel of Bell Labs...
« Reply #53 on: April 12, 2005, 08:26:35 am »

Poyser wrote on Tue, 12 April 2005 07:13

This is a German cable and feels different to every other cable you’ve seen used for the Electric Guitar. It’s quite thick and very very stiff indeed, and certainly does deliver an improved high end.

I'm unaware of anyone who doesn't agree that cables can and do make  a difference wrt very small signals at unusual impedances (gtr cables), but one must be careful to automatically assume that the same holds true at every level and impedance. I contend that at line level (and speaker) that two cables of similar measurements will not sound different, but agree that the smallest, most easily abused signal we deal with (gtr cables) can and do make a difference...
Logged
Brad Blackwood
euphonic masters

PP

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1005
Re: Transparent Audio, meet Dr. Zobel of Bell Labs...
« Reply #54 on: April 12, 2005, 09:52:36 am »

Logged

dcollins

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2815
Re: Transparent Audio, meet Dr. Zobel of Bell Labs...
« Reply #55 on: April 12, 2005, 07:25:27 pm »

Poyser wrote on Tue, 12 April 2005 06:52

Q: “I'm unaware of anyone who doesn't agree that cables can and do make a difference wrt very small signals at unusual impedances (gtr cables).”



This isn't surprising given that the guitar signal is the most fragile in all of recording!  It comes out at a high impedance, technically called "sans cajones", which means the capacitance of the cable is vitally important.  

I don't think there is a direct relationship between the physical stiffness of the cable and the capactiance, however....  Handling noise should be better with the stiff cable, as the dielectric will has less chance to move around and affect the charge.

If you had phantom on the guitar cable, you wouldn't even need a mic!

There was a Les Paul that had a balanced low-Z out, but it was not a hit....

Quote:


In fact, it has to be said, the guitarist’s themselves are often the most unusual element of all in the whole equation….

Ask Dave Collins….



Hello?


DC

lucey

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1043
Re: Transparent Audio, meet Dr. Zobel of Bell Labs...
« Reply #56 on: April 17, 2005, 03:39:10 pm »

bblackwood wrote on Tue, 12 April 2005 07:26

 I contend that at line level (and speaker) that two cables of similar measurements will not sound different, but agree that the smallest, most easily abused signal we deal with (gtr cables) can and do make a difference...



I spent 2 hours yesterday with Requisites newest solid core cable, my beloved Cardas cheapy cable called 2/23.5M, Zaolla silver and the Mogami patchbay cabling.

Anyone can and should do this test for themselves with their DA and AD to see how cables work in your chain.


The test was AC/DC out the DAC1 and right back in the Pacific HDCD with 3' of balanced cable converted to 24/44.1.

Clearly there are audible differences, but subtle ones.  Yet again, it's a matter of how much you care.  I chose to return the new Requisite as it was lean on the low end, a bit mid-forward, and lacking in depth.  The Cardas is a bit distorted but more euphonic in the lows and mids with more air and depth.  The Zaolla is the more neutral of the 4.  The Mogami is average in every category... but not terrible.

It's easy to test this for yourself...

I use the Cardas or the Zaolla as the last cable in the chain, post L2M and b4 the converter ... just depending on what sounds best.





The Requisite solid core exhibited the same response as compared to the Cardas in a mic test that I also did, using my voice, a Korby mic, the 2 cables, a mogami snake, and the HDCD at 24/44.1 again.  This was recorded and played back and again, subtle but real.
Logged
Brian Lucey
Magic Garden Mastering

"the economy is a wholly owned subsidiary of the ecology" - unknown

bblackwood

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7036
Re: Transparent Audio, meet Dr. Zobel of Bell Labs...
« Reply #57 on: April 17, 2005, 03:43:35 pm »

lucey wrote on Sun, 17 April 2005 14:39

bblackwood wrote on Tue, 12 April 2005 07:26

 I contend that at line level (and speaker) that two cables of similar measurements will not sound different, but agree that the smallest, most easily abused signal we deal with (gtr cables) can and do make a difference...

I spent 2 hours yesterday with Requisites newest solid core cable, my beloved Cardas cheapy cable called 2/23.5M, Zaolla silver and the Mogami patchbay cabling.

Since you quoted what I wrote above I have to ask - do you know what the measurements of the cables tested were?

For example, IIRC, the Mogami is fairly high capacitance...
Logged
Brad Blackwood
euphonic masters

Arf! Mastering

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 889
Re: Transparent Audio, meet Dr. Zobel of Bell Labs...
« Reply #58 on: April 17, 2005, 03:50:58 pm »

Brian,

Have you tried blind-testing the files with a DAW or something like  PC ABX?  

Logged
“A working class hero is something to be,
Keep you doped with religion and sex and T.V.”
John Lennon

"Large signals can actually be counterproductive.  If I scream at you over the phone, you don’t hear me better. If I shine a bright light in your eyes, you don’t see better.”
Dr. C.T. Rubin, biomechanical engineer

dcollins

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2815
Re: Transparent Audio, meet Dr. Zobel of Bell Labs...
« Reply #59 on: April 17, 2005, 05:20:50 pm »

AlanS wrote on Sun, 17 April 2005 12:50

Brian,
Have you tried blind-testing the files with a DAW or something like  PC ABX?  



I heard someone refer to wire tests as "faith-based" the other day...

DC
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5   Go Up