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Author Topic: Why different results when mixing down ITB with different interfaces, buffer settings etc  (Read 7996 times)

cerberus

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Geoff Emerick de Fake wrote on Wed, 09 December 2009 17:04

 it is clear that the differences lie in the reverbs; the random modulation is clearly audible.

A Deian wrote on Wed, 09 December 2009 11:27

It's been suggested that we should try a newer laptop and a different firewire card...

andy: from a scientific perspective: one ought to verify that exports from  
one system are identical before comparing exports from different systems.

jeff dinces

UnderTow

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TotalSonic wrote on Wed, 09 December 2009 22:51


I don't agree with Alistair that your concerns aren't valid here.


It is not that they are not valid here. It is that this is not the best place to solve the problem. This is first and foremost a technical problem with a technical answer. Not a listening problem. It can not even be determined by listening. Even if people claim they hear a difference, you still don't have any proof of anything!

Before even looking at the exported files, the first step is to look at the export methods. That is step 1. If it can be determined beyond a doubt that there are no errors in the export methodology then you can move on to further tests.

Step one hasn't even been touched on let alone determined beyond doubt. The fact that I seem to be the only one even questioning this shows that this is the wrong forum...

But OK, fair enough, lets assume there are no errors... Then you move on to the next step in a process of elimination. Most DAWs have a way to load a project without any plugins loading. So load the project without plugs and bounce with various sound cards. Does it null now?

If so you know it is a plugin issue and not Cubase as such. So you keep on working at it until you know what the problem is. You test on different systems. You test with different projects. You test with single files, two files, ten files,etc.

If you discover that there is a reproducible bug in Cubase, you contact Steinberg and maybe make a post on the Steinberg forums to see if other people can reproduce it too. If other users can and this is indeed a bug that affects many Cubase users, Steinberg release a patch in no time because of the uproar this kind of flaw would create. (Hopefully).

Going to a forum because you trust people's ears is a complete waste of time when the issue is a technical one. Ears can not be trusted. Certainly not anywhere near as much as good old methodological testing and a good process of elimination.

Alistair
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TotalSonic

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UnderTow wrote on Wed, 09 December 2009 19:14

TotalSonic wrote on Wed, 09 December 2009 22:51


I don't agree with Alistair that your concerns aren't valid here.


It is not that they are not valid here. It is that this is not the best place to solve the problem. This is first and foremost a technical problem with a technical answer. Not a listening problem. It can not even be determined by listening. Even if people claim they hear a difference, you still don't have any proof of anything!

Before even looking at the exported files, the first step is to look at the export methods. That is step 1. If it can be determined beyond a doubt that there are no errors in the export methodology then you can move on to further tests.

Step one hasn't even been touched on let alone determined beyond doubt. The fact that I seem to be the only one even questioning this shows that this is the wrong forum...

But OK, fair enough, lets assume there are no errors... Then you move on to the next step in a process of elimination. Most DAWs have a way to load a project without any plugins loading. So load the project without plugs and bounce with various sound cards. Does it null now?

If so you know it is a plugin issue and not Cubase as such. So you keep on working at it until you know what the problem is. You test on different systems. You test with different projects. You test with single files, two files, ten files,etc.

If you discover that there is a reproducible bug in Cubase, you contact Steinberg and maybe make a post on the Steinberg forums to see if other people can reproduce it too. If other users can and this is indeed a bug that affects many Cubase users, Steinberg release a patch in no time because of the uproar this kind of flaw would create. (Hopefully).

Going to a forum because you trust people's ears is a complete waste of time when the issue is a technical one. Ears can not be trusted. Certainly not anywhere near as much as good old methodological testing and a good process of elimination.

Alistair


Alistair -
Definitely agree with the points in your post.  I just think it's important to keep this a friendly place and point people towards testing methods that will help - and also which I think this last post of yours in fact does.

Best regards,
Steve Berson  

subvertbeats

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A Deian wrote on Wed, 09 December 2009 16:52


Subvert Beats - Thanks for the offer. The problem is not session specific, it even happens with mono WAVs.  Would be happy to send you files although like I said we did a mixdown at another studio (Strongroom) with a desktop setup and there were no problems.  If you're by any chance in London perhaps I can get in touch?


Hey, no worries. Im about an hour outside of London.

But let me understand this correctly.
You are saying that a project with a single mono wav, no plugins, bounced to disk in Cubase, twice, each time using a different audio interface driver, will produce 2 different sounding files that dont null?

So here we have ruled out everything BUT the Cubase audio engine and bounce-to-disk routines.

I must say I have never experienced any such issues, but maybe you have found a genuine issue in a particular version (though you say this has been bugging you for years, so assume you have used different versions over those years?)




dubwise

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Cubendo definitely involves the sound card drivers in the mix.
A few years ago there was a bug that produced random buffer-length silence in the output file.
One workaround that always worked was to switch to the Mac's internal soundcard for the bounce.
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