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Author Topic: "Audiophile" mastering speakers  (Read 25748 times)

Sonovo

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Re: "Audiophile" mastering speakers
« Reply #30 on: November 30, 2009, 05:47:09 AM »

Those new Bang & Olufsen's look the sh*t!

Twisted Evil

Thor


MASSIVE Mastering wrote on Sat, 28 November 2009 19:06

Calling Dr. Who...

http://www.specter-web.com/cm/audio/graphics/dalek.jpg

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Thomas W. Bethel

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Re: "Audiophile" mastering speakers
« Reply #31 on: November 30, 2009, 06:14:17 AM »

When I first started into business I was able to purchase what I needed when I needed it. My client base was firm enough that I had a steady stream of clients (and income) coming in the front door. I still have most of those clients today, however they are NOT doing as much recording and therefore I am not doing as much mastering for them. New clients still come in but their budgets seem much smaller and most of them are looking for a "deal". Today I am a lot more careful on what I purchase and look really hard at any purchase over $500. My thoughts are these about equipment purchases:

1. Do I really "need" it or is it just something that I would like to have?

2. Will it pay for itself in a couple of months to a year and will the expense allow me to do things more efficiently or have things sound better.

3. Can it do things that no other piece of equipment , that I currently own, do?

4. What if I wait a couple of months?

5. How much do I have in my Capital Equipment fund and will I have to take out a loan to be able to afford this and will the use of the equipment pay for both the equipment and the loan?

6. If I did not have this piece of equipment can I still do what I do as well?

7. Considering that more and more of my income comes from Video Production could the money be better spent on the video side of things?

8. What can I sell off to help pay for the new equipment?

9. What is the state of the economy likely to be in the next 12 months (baring another 9/11) and is now a good time to buy a big ticket item?

10. Is their something else available that would do the job as well but not cost as much and is this item something that would be good to list on the equipment list to help bring in new clients?


For me to purchase a set of $150K speakers would would not be a smart move if I asked and answered truthfully all the questions above.

Most of my clientele could not tell $150K speakers from a $10K set of speakers and the money and loan fees would not be something that would make sense in this economy and with the steady decline of people needing quality mastering services.

As to the pictures and information in Mix and other magazines...

I have had our studio mentioned (not featured) in both Mix and ProSound news with pictures. It did not do a lot for business because many of out clients or perspective clients are not readers of either magazine. I agree with Steve that in this economy with all the economic problems having a "dream studio" featured in Mix is probably more of an advertising plus than something that makes good economic sense. What you don't see or hear about is what is happening to all those beautiful studios two years after they get featured.

The one thing that really stands out in this area is the amount of money being spent on educational and NPR/PBS studios. WCPN/WVIZ just put in an amazing audio studio. Cuyahoga Community College just put in a dream set of studios for their recording program, so did the Cleveland Institute of Music and Oberlin College is putting in a multi million dollar audio studio in their new Jazz building. These are all state of the art equipment studios that are being used to train the next generation of audio engineers. It is too bad that with the downturn in the music recording field this maybe the only time the new audio engineers get to sit down in a well designed, well constructed and equipment rich environment.

FWIW and YMMV






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Room With a View Productions
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bkuijt

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Re: "Audiophile" mastering speakers
« Reply #32 on: November 30, 2009, 03:16:33 PM »

Jerry Tubb wrote on Sat, 28 November 2009 23:15

crna59 wrote on Sat, 28 November 2009 16:01

Stubblebine/Romanowski just got the $180k Grande Utopias.


I noticed the similarity... sticker shock for sure!

At some point I realized that perhaps not all mastering operations (and other studios) actually have to turn a profit.

A concept that is totally foreign to us!

JT



On the other hand they make $500,- a piece tapes with those speakers.
http://www.tapeproject.com, towards the bottom of the page.
(A project that speaks to my imagination by the way!)

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Bastiaan Kuijt  //  BK Audio  //  www.bkaudio.nl

TotalSonic

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Re: "Audiophile" mastering speakers
« Reply #33 on: November 30, 2009, 03:33:00 PM »

bkuijt wrote on Mon, 30 November 2009 15:16

Jerry Tubb wrote on Sat, 28 November 2009 23:15

crna59 wrote on Sat, 28 November 2009 16:01

Stubblebine/Romanowski just got the $180k Grande Utopias.


I noticed the similarity... sticker shock for sure!

At some point I realized that perhaps not all mastering operations (and other studios) actually have to turn a profit.

A concept that is totally foreign to us!

JT



On the other hand they make $500,- a piece tapes with those speakers.
http://www.tapeproject.com, towards the bottom of the page.
(A project that speaks to my imagination by the way!)




Hard to imagine that the sales from the Tape Project have ever amounted to that big of a profit for them, considering costs of tape, packaging, and amount of labor (real time duping on a small number of machines, all requiring diligent QC, and all needing regular calibration and maintenance) necessary to make their products, and the fact that their sales numbers are probably small.

I really like the idea of the Tape Project myself and have been contemplating getting one or two tapes from their catalog.  The price for the subscription is a little prohibitive to me though, and I'm confused whether a la carte items are readily available.   Bruce Brown offered a review on this forum a bit ago where he was in a group doing a/b's that preferred audiophilic vinyl editions over the Tape Project version of the same release - if I remember correctly I believe he stated that the tape was hissier than expected.  Maybe he can chime in here and qualify this with more info.

Anyway - anyone with direct experience out there with the Tape Project stuff?  What was the delivery time for these?  And how was the sound?

Best regards,
Steve Berson

crna59

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Re: "Audiophile" mastering speakers
« Reply #34 on: November 30, 2009, 04:02:00 PM »

TotalSonic wrote on Mon, 30 November 2009 14:33

  Maybe he can chime in here and qualify this with more info.

Best regards,
Steve Berson


I have several of the tapes and have listened to every one of them. They're good, but I wasn't blown away. Most of us that receive master tapes can make better copies, I'm sure.
Most of the time, the 45rpm version is better... sometimes not.
I have made dups of master tapes and have played them for my audiophile friends. I could make a mint. But with having to mass produce these and with the packaging, I'm sure they're probably just breaking even. I feel they spend too much on packaging and not enough time on the quality of the tape.


Regards,
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It is easier to ask for forgiveness than to ask for permission! Buy! Buy buy....  

TotalSonic

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Re: "Audiophile" mastering speakers
« Reply #35 on: November 30, 2009, 04:16:44 PM »

Bruce - thanks for the feedback on the "TP."

Anyway - got to admit MR's got a beautiful looking studio - and realize I may have been coming off as a "playa hata" in my previous posts.  Having that cup of joe next to all that EAR gear would make me nervous though! ->

 http://www.michaelromanowski.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/Mix-M agazine-2009-Mastering-Issue1.jpg

The "fix it in the master" headline is kind of a can of worms for me though...

Best regards,
Steve Berson

fuse

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Re: "Audiophile" mastering speakers
« Reply #36 on: December 02, 2009, 06:31:43 AM »

I was wondering why you would spend that much on 'factory build' speakers when you can have custom made speakers that suit your needs and desires at just a fraction of the price of the focals.
A friend of mine is a certified speaker engineer and can build impressive sounding speakers with the best components that are out there. (Dunno about beryllium though)

If you have your room customized by specialists so why don't do the same with your speakers?
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Wouter Veltmaat
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Darius van H

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Re: "Audiophile" mastering speakers
« Reply #37 on: December 02, 2009, 06:56:17 AM »

fuse wrote on Wed, 02 December 2009 05:31

I was wondering why you would spend that much on 'factory build' speakers when you can have custom made speakers that suit your needs and desires at just a fraction of the price of the focals.
A friend of mine is a certified speaker engineer and can build impressive sounding speakers with the best components that are out there. (Dunno about beryllium though)

If you have your room customized by specialists so why don't do the same with your speakers?


How much does the average custom speaker builder spend on R&D? And how does this figure compare to what companies like B&W or Focal spend?

Allen Corneau

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Re: "Audiophile" mastering speakers
« Reply #38 on: December 02, 2009, 09:14:10 AM »

fuse wrote on Wed, 02 December 2009 05:31

I was wondering why you would spend that much on 'factory build' speakers when you can have custom made speakers that suit your needs and desires at just a fraction of the price of the focals.
A friend of mine is a certified speaker engineer and can build impressive sounding speakers with the best components that are out there. (Dunno about beryllium though)

If you have your room customized by specialists so why don't do the same with your speakers?



Here's an interview with Bob Hodas explaining the decisions they made about the room and the speakers:

http://mixonline.com/video/mixtv/recording/bob_hodas_romanow ski_mastering/
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joeaudio

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Re: "Audiophile" mastering speakers
« Reply #39 on: December 02, 2009, 09:47:58 AM »

Does Bob Ludwig know that someone spent more on their monitors
than he did?
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philip

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Re: "Audiophile" mastering speakers
« Reply #40 on: December 02, 2009, 10:26:49 AM »

Allen Corneau wrote on Wed, 02 December 2009 15:14




Here's an interview with Bob Hodas explaining the decisions they made about the room and the speakers:

 http://mixonline.com/video/mixtv/recording/bob_hodas_romanow ski_mastering/


hilarious!

Greg Reierson

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Re: "Audiophile" mastering speakers
« Reply #41 on: December 02, 2009, 11:20:28 AM »

Allen Corneau wrote on Wed, 02 December 2009 08:14

Here's an interview with Bob Hodas explaining the decisions they made about the room and the speakers:

 http://mixonline.com/video/mixtv/recording/bob_hodas_romanow ski_mastering/


Good grief! This video and the Grundman interviews from 2008 floating around lately are further proof that audio geeks should be behind the mic/camera, not in front of it...


GR
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Geoff Emerick de Fake

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Re: "Audiophile" mastering speakers
« Reply #42 on: December 02, 2009, 12:54:22 PM »

Next step, they're gonna have a selection of mains cables according to the style of music.
Anyway, they have a serious problem with the phase alignment of the potted plants.
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Schallfeldnebel

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Re: "Audiophile" mastering speakers
« Reply #43 on: December 02, 2009, 02:12:24 PM »

Mr. Hodas says he does not like room-acoustics where the sound of your voice seems to come out off your chest, but in this video Mr. Hodas is talking out of his neck. What curve, what contour? I have learned that also recording rooms should be as neutral as can be.
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Bill Mueller:"Only very recently, has the availability of cheap consumer based gear popularized the concept of a rank amateur as an audio engineer. Unfortunately, this has also degraded the reputation of the audio engineer to the lowest level in its history. A sad thing indeed for those of us professionals."

TotalSonic

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Re: "Audiophile" mastering speakers
« Reply #44 on: December 02, 2009, 02:40:28 PM »

joeaudio wrote on Wed, 02 December 2009 09:47

Does Bob Ludwig know that someone spent more on their monitors
than he did?


Back in 1993 when Bob L. took a big risk and opened a no expense spared facility in a town that was not one of the three USA music industry centers, things were certainly different than now -
* the amount of dedicated mastering studios was far less saturated
* options to "diy" a master were essentially non-existent - as PCM1630's, the initial PMCD burners and lathes were outside the budgets of the vast majority of music production facilities
* the major labels were showing marked sales and profit growth, and budgets for mastering were at a healthy level vs. now when just the opposite is happening

I think things worked out fantastically for Bob L. with Gateway because of excellent timing with the opening happening during 6 years of serious growth for the music industry, the fact that he had already established a reputation as one of the top 5 mastering engineers in the country - along with a very large client base, and that Portland allowed him to afford property and have less overhead after initial build out expenses in a way that NYC never would of.

But a place attempting to do similar things now appealing to a high end market has to contend against already well established places such as Sterling, Masterdisk, etc. etc. - while also contending with shrinking budgets.

So again - while I admire the dedication to finding some kind of "holy grail" of monitoring - as a business decision these days $180k for monitors is seriously out to lunch.

Best regards,
Steve Berson
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