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Author Topic: Massive Passive tubes  (Read 3499 times)

Allen Corneau

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Massive Passive tubes
« on: November 16, 2009, 02:59:35 pm »

Howdy folks,


My MP lost a tube the other day right as I was starting a session with a client, of course. Luckily we had a spare so the session went on without issue. However, this got to me thinking about several things...

1. Do replacement tubes need to be in matched sets to maintain good balance between channels?

2. Do different brand tubes change the tone of the MP enough to consider trying other brands?

3. I have always had a higher noise floor with the MP in the chain. In the manual's trouble-shooting section it states, "The usual suspect is the shorter tubes - the 5751 voltage amplifiers. You may find that you need to choose the quietest tube out of several of that type - like we do at the factory." Is there a better tube choice than GE's that are in there now?

Thanks!

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Allen
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Allen Corneau
Mastering Engineer
Essential Sound Mastering
www.esmastering.com

Peter Beckmann

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Re: Massive Passive tubes
« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2009, 03:53:22 pm »

Have you checked out Manleys own tube site for replacements~?


http://www.tubesrule.com/category_s/47.htm


Peter



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Peter Beckmann
Technologyworks
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Allen Corneau

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Re: Massive Passive tubes
« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2009, 06:02:38 pm »

Yes, I've seen their site, but...

They're the same tubes as what's in there now, and I'm asking about different tubes.
They're a bit more expensive than other places...


Cool
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Allen Corneau
Mastering Engineer
Essential Sound Mastering
www.esmastering.com

Garrett H

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Re: Massive Passive tubes
« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2009, 09:22:07 pm »

Allen,

Three things:

1. I tried expensive Telefunken tubes and got almost no sound difference.  But that was only one type of tube.

2. The Telefunkens ended up going microphonic. Please check out the recording, and graphic at:
 http://www.tapeop.com/tapelog/2009/08/recording-tips-02-micr ophonic.php
Tape Op Blog About Massive Passive Replacement Tubes

3. At least buy a spare pair from Manley as a back up.  They hand test their stock and toss what doesn't meet spec.

Wishing you good luck on this,

Garrett H.
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Treelady Studios, Pittsburgh, PA
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Senior Contributor, Tape Op Magazine
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Allen Corneau

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Re: Massive Passive tubes
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2009, 03:23:44 pm »

Thanks Garrett.

Yes, I'll be getting a backup tube for each type (6414 and 5751).

I'm guessing that in the MP design the tube really doesn't impart that much of a signature on the sound as does a compressor or mic-pre circuit might.

Onward through the fog!
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Allen Corneau
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Essential Sound Mastering
www.esmastering.com

Allen Corneau

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Re: Massive Passive tubes
« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2010, 08:54:54 pm »

Thread resurrection!

Like a dumba$$ I never gott around to ordering a few spare tubes and it caught up with me today...

(FYI: same post as on GS)

I got in to the studio a little early today (got a lot to do before I go out of town for the holidays) and cranked up the computer and MP to find the left side of the mastering chain was dead. Turned off the lights to find one of the 6414 tubes in my MP was not glowing. F*#k!

Called Manley as soon as they opened and the tech guy said I could substitute a 12AT7 tube in a pinch. Luckily I was able to source one in town and got my work done for the day. Yea me.

So here's my question: why would a different tube work in place of the 6414?

I didn't hear any appreciable difference in sound or performance of the non-6414 tube, but I didn't take the time to do any extensive testing. Also, I've read (and heard) that changing the tubes in the MP won't change the sound of it in any real way like other tube-based gear. I have also heard that the gain stage of the MP is really the SS output circuitry and not actually a tube output stage as touted.

Can anyone explain what's going on?  

Edit to add: I've got an earlier version with the 5751's and 6414's, if that matters.
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Allen
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Allen Corneau
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Essential Sound Mastering
www.esmastering.com

Allen Corneau

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Re: Massive Passive tubes
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2011, 11:52:22 am »

EveAnna Manley posted this response over on GS and I thought it would be good to post it here as well...

Quote:


Specifically regarding the 6414 tubes in Manley Pro Audio gear: those are all used in White Follower output buffer circuits. There is no gain in that output driver. (There is a gain of 0.9 actually (which is less than one)). The sound of the unit is not affected much by that tube in particular. (But it is a supreme output circuit!)

You can freely use a 12BH7 in place of a 6414 pulling White Follower Duty in any of our units. You could even use a 12AT7 in there to get by. They don't have to be specially matched or noise tested. Basically anything will work in this part of the circuit.

You do not have to get matched-triode sets of 5751's or 12AX7's in the Massive Passive. The tube stages are not push-pull. One triode half does not care what the other is doing. Look for lo-noise examples. If your unit came with 5751's then stay with those.

We sell replacement tubes for all of our units on our spare parts website:
www.tubesrule.com

All of our units' Owner's Manuals are on our main website.
www.manley.com
Look in the SUPPORT section where you will find SERVICE, MANUALS, PARTS, FAQ, etc etc etc.
__________________
Cheers, EveAnna Manley, Manley Laboratories, Inc.
www.manleylabs.com




So, there ya' go!
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Allen
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Allen Corneau
Mastering Engineer
Essential Sound Mastering
www.esmastering.com
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