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Author Topic: IMP 23 Discussion Thread  (Read 9550 times)

mafigi

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Re: IMP 23 Discussion Thread
« Reply #30 on: November 17, 2009, 12:05:34 pm »

Fiasco wrote on Tue, 17 November 2009 00:29



mafigi - Way too hot. Snare a bit thin, needs some body. I guess I don't like

the chorus cymbals coming so hevily from the side. Guitars sound nasally. Good

bass. Drums in general buried and somewhat unnatural sounding.




Hi, thanks for listening, the mix was tested for more than one control room, both with NS10, Wharfedale and Adam S3, can I ask you for your listening  hot-spot and lay-out ?
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fiasco ( P.M.DuMont )

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Re: IMP 23 Discussion Thread
« Reply #31 on: November 17, 2009, 12:56:37 pm »

Reno wrote on Tue, 17 November 2009 11:28

Quote:

 Snare not in the mix. A bit anemic in the lows.


SO where it is???




What I mean by not in the mix, is if I were to envision a performance of this song,
I would hear the instrumentation sitting naturally as if occuring in the same space.

I thought your snare, and several others, sounded as if it was coming from another performance.
Which is sometimes the problem with samples. No offense intended.
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Philip

fiasco ( P.M.DuMont )

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Re: IMP 23 Discussion Thread
« Reply #32 on: November 17, 2009, 01:48:47 pm »

mafigi wrote on Tue, 17 November 2009 12:05

Fiasco wrote on Tue, 17 November 2009 00:29



mafigi - Way too hot. Snare a bit thin, needs some body. I guess I don't like

the chorus cymbals coming so hevily from the side. Guitars sound nasally. Good

bass. Drums in general buried and somewhat unnatural sounding.




Hi, thanks for listening, the mix was tested for more than one control room, both with NS10, Wharfedale and Adam S3, can I ask you for your listening  hot-spot and lay-out ?


You're welcome.

I reviewed the submissions at mix posistion on Tannoy reveals and also on my home stereo (older sanyo amp, original Bose 201's).
I will be the first to admit that my mix posistion is suffering right now, as I am doing some acoustic reconfigurations.

I'll also be the first to admit that I've got alot to learn.

Most of my comments regarding your submission, and really everyones' submissions, are subjective to a large extent.
I like to hear things as I would like to hear them. Simple.

The, what I consider unbalanced, cymbals was problematic for me as a listener. I also believe a mix should have a "fair" amount of dynamics left for the mastering engineer. How much is certainly subjective.

Again, my opinion, and no offense meant.
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Philip

mafigi

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Re: IMP 23 Discussion Thread
« Reply #33 on: November 17, 2009, 02:34:02 pm »

[quote title=Fiasco wrote on Tue, 17 November 2009 19:48][quote title=mafigi wrote on Tue, 17 November 2009 12:05]
Fiasco wrote on Tue, 17 November 2009 00:29



Again, my opinion




Hi, no problem, thanks again.
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el duderino

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Re: IMP 23 Discussion Thread
« Reply #34 on: November 17, 2009, 04:16:50 pm »

ok, so here are my thoughts on the mixes.

keep in mind im not trying to offend anyone. if you don't like my mix it's quite possible we have different tastes and i won't like yours. and thats cool. different strokes ya know...anyway here they are.

Music Junky-drums sound very compressed, good guitars. Gtr solo was a bit low and during it I thought the hi gtr on the left was distracting.

Straws- liked the bass, but the mix seemed to lack depth. Gtrs could be brighter. Kick is a bit loud in the verses.

Southbound loco- snare seems out of place to me, same with the kick in the verses. The snare is really loud. Verb kind of muddies things. Bass wasn’t cutting through enough, I thought the  gtr solo was too low, and the ending was a bit weird to me. Toms sound great tho.

Billy Behdaz
- overall bright, lead gtr loud, bass not cutting through enough.

MGT- nice drums, ld gtr loud. Vocals lo end a bit too much. Gtr sounds kinda boxey. Mix could be wider.

OSumosan- highhat is loud, where did the chorus gtrs go? Ld voc has a lot of sibilance. Gtr solo too loud.

Danko-drums up some during distorted guitar parts, esp. chorus. Kick isn’t my thing, seems odd to me in the verses.

Greg Dixon- bit dark compared to others, bass seemed a bit loud to me. The chorus wasn’t poppin enough imo.

Baddo2- bright and kind of brittle sounding, particularly in the verses. I wasn’t feeling the tremolo effect but that’s me.  Gtr solo too loud. Thought the harmonizer on the voc should be ducked in the break.

Rankus- you explained the gtr solo thing, so nevermind that! I think the ld voc in the chorus was too low, other than that the kick and snare just seemed out of place to me.

Jdubdrums- if it were brighter I think it would be a big improvement. The balance seemed pretty good overall tho. Also get rid of some vocal harshness.

Miguel- snare sounds odd and loud to me. Something strange about the drums overall. Like the gtr edit in the verse. The backup vox sound distorted in a bad way to me. Seems muddy in the low mids. Cymbals too low. Vocal was too loud, not really sitting in the mix right.

Icombs- it’s your song and all that but,…. to me the kick was loud and the gtrs sounded scooped. Nice job programming the drums and recording btw.

Dgauss-good punch when chorus comes in. kind of dark and bassy tho, cymbals get lost in the chorus.

Fiasco- gtrs sound thin, where’s the solo? Toms way loud compared to the snare. Kick was too loud in the verses. Had a kind of brittle compressed sound to me.

Mdifazio- weird vocal compression/de-essing going on. Kind of dark too.  The chorus needs more punch. Bass and drums too low. The gtr sound seems kind of phasey to me. What happened to the rhythm gtrs in the 2nd chorus?

Jonahakort- nice fat snare sound. Mix is a bit bass heavy tho. Chorus could pop more. Vocal a bit dark. The gtrs aren’t cutting through/loud enough for me.

Graham- not feeling the delay at the end of the chorus, too fast. Gtr solo could sit better. Bass should be louder. otherwise I’m digging it.

Josh mcardle-that’s some roomy drums! Too much for me tho. The vocal fx as well, way too much. Kick too loud. The chorus’s pop a bit too much, maybe some 2bus compression would even it out or just trim the automation back a bit.

J.Hall- for an hour its pretty damn good. But, the kick seems unnatural to me, the vocal sibilance was a bit much, sounds kind of limted or eq’d a lot in the hi’s. great punch when the chorus hits. The bass had a bit too much sub bass imo. But like I said, for an hour….
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el duderino

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Re: IMP 23 Discussion Thread
« Reply #35 on: November 17, 2009, 04:44:00 pm »

Fiasco wrote on Mon, 16 November 2009 18:29


El duderino - Snare feels separated from rest of the mix, not quite sitting in it. Cymbals on chorus coming from the left, distracts quite a bit. Not bad otherwise.



thanks.

that cymbal bothered me too but ducking it didn't feel right to me so i just went with it.

martthie_08 wrote on Sat, 14 November 2009 17:14


el duderino
sounds nice and open, good balance, pretty wide mix, snare drum might deserve a more hifi verb / cymbals a bit heavy in the chorus.




thanks. duly noted.

Reno wrote on Fri, 13 November 2009 14:14


El duderino

Good work... miss a little punch in the kick but it works. Voclas are a little small





thanks. i agree, the kick got about zero attention. the vocal wasn't cooperating as much as i would have liked but i think it works.

iCombs wrote on Thu, 12 November 2009 18:18


El-duderino – A bit more subdued than the last couple mixes...perhaps even a little low-fi (not in a bad way).  Everything balances nicely through the first verse.  Vocal is placed nicely in the guitars.  Nice explosion into the chorus.  That first downbeat has a lot of pop to it.  Really like that.  It doesn't feel like you used a lot of compression...which means in this case that the dynamics of the song section to section seem to just happen by nature of the arrangement...which, IMO, is a good thing.  The lead vocal could probably stand for a little brightening up or just some more aggression...but then again, I don't know how well that'd play against the guitars...which feel pretty natural.  As a bass player, I'd probably ask for a little more top or honk or aggression, but I think it holds the bottom together well.  No tom hit  before the last chorus...somehow that just robs that section of a little drama for me.  On the whole, though, this is a solid mix.




thanks. i didn't use very much compression imo, but you may think different when i tell you how much there was.

I had a parallel drum bus hit pretty hard, and another parallel bus for the guitars too. backup vox got compressed together, not individually. the vocal had 2 compressors on it and the bass had one as well.

and there was a compressor on the 2bus.


automation definitely helped it pop a bit more.


in case anyone is interested, im using a digi 002r with apogee rosetta 800 converters going into a dangerous 2bus lt. the mix bus got an ART Pro-VLA, the vocal and bass each got a FMR PBC-6A.
all the EQ was the URS A series plug-in. all the other compression was the digi 1176 plug-in.

mixed using dynaudio bm-5a's and yamaha ns-10's.
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fiasco ( P.M.DuMont )

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Re: IMP 23 Discussion Thread
« Reply #36 on: November 17, 2009, 06:41:53 pm »

el duderino wrote on Tue, 17 November 2009 16:16


Fiasco- gtrs sound thin, where’s the solo? Toms way loud compared to the snare. Kick was too loud in the verses. Had a kind of brittle compressed sound to me.



Thanks.

I will agree with everything, but I'm not sure I used too much compression, I think the mix is just thin in general.
The snare was giving me fits. Something about it, so I replaced it. Imagine that! Still didn't work as far as I'm concerned.

I got so tired of Ian and his 257 guitar tracks I just plain missed the solo. Oh well, I liked the "theme" thing going on at the same time anyway.

Kidding about the guitar tracks.

Thanks again.
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Philip

spicemix

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Re: IMP 23 Discussion Thread
« Reply #37 on: November 24, 2009, 12:44:17 am »

This IMP thing is a great idea...I've listened to the mixes and you guys do great work! Cool

It is useful to me to have multitracks to experiment with new gear/techniques on without having a client relationship to fret over. Speaking of which, I see the older RARs aren't on the server anymore. Any chance they can be made available again?

Anywhere else decent multitracks are available to play with?

Thanks!
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Peter Jensen
spicemix

j.hall

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Re: IMP 23 Discussion Thread
« Reply #38 on: November 24, 2009, 02:11:16 pm »

spicemix wrote on Mon, 23 November 2009 23:44

This IMP thing is a great idea...I've listened to the mixes and you guys do great work! Cool

It is useful to me to have multitracks to experiment with new gear/techniques on without having a client relationship to fret over. Speaking of which, I see the older RARs aren't on the server anymore. Any chance they can be made available again?

Anywhere else decent multitracks are available to play with?

Thanks!


i pull the RARs down at the end of each IMP for exactly this reason.  it's not really fair to the bands to have their masters floating around god knows where for something other then what i've asked of them.
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spicemix

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Re: IMP 23 Discussion Thread
« Reply #39 on: November 28, 2009, 11:25:51 pm »

Not sure how the downside exceeds either the initial downside or the eventual upside. Having people in the industry massaging these tracks can't be a bad thing even if they make mockeries of them. Any press is good press when you are the level of act that would provide for one of these IMO.

Thanks for arranging these jhall.  Smile
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Peter Jensen
spicemix

j.hall

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Re: IMP 23 Discussion Thread
« Reply #40 on: November 29, 2009, 12:28:25 pm »

i'm just trying to be as respectful as i can.  we've also had some problems in the past.
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iCombs

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Re: IMP 23 Discussion Thread
« Reply #41 on: November 29, 2009, 12:34:09 pm »

Sorry about my delay in getting to page 2, guys...I'm working on it now and will have new crits up shortly.
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Ian Combs
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iCombs

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Re: IMP 23 Discussion Thread
« Reply #42 on: December 18, 2009, 01:46:42 am »

HOKAAAY....been a long month for me and I apologize...but since this was my song, I feel like I really owe it to everyone to critique the mixes...so...with fresh ears and a new drive to do this right...

PAGE 2!!!

mafigi – Tightest intro edit yet!  No chugga-chuggas!  The mix feels hypey, but not in a painful way.  The bass feels really big and mean sounding...but that's partly set up by the snare drum feeling like it's kinda small and in the back.  Would like to feel a little more of the punch and body of that in the mix...there's room for it in this mix, I promise.  The vocals in the first half of the first verse get a little lost when they get quiet...could probably use a volume ride there.  The second chorus really doesn't feel like it's an explosion...partly due to the arrangement...but a little volume differential would help that out quite a bit.  Dry solo!  Nice.  Delivers the punchy nature of that tone well.  Toms feel really big throughout...maybe a LITTLE on the snappy/hyped side when compared to the kick and snare, but solid nonetheless.

D Gauss – Not bad for a lunchbreak!  That snare really has a SPANK to it.  Only way I can describe it.  Dry and punchy, but not in a bad way.  The kick's got a lot of woof...perhaps a distracting amount.  The single note guitar line seems like it's a bit forward compared to the rhythm guitars.  The mix feels like it preserves a lot of the dynamics of the song as played/programmed...which is a nice thing, IMO.  Would be cool to hear this mix kinda expanded on.  It seems like the fundamental aspects of it are solid, but, like you said, it's a lunchbreak mix.  There's part of me that digs that aesthetic, though...just like...first impressions...raw...kinda unadulterated.  The balances overall feel pretty solid, though.  Maybe a LITTLE more main rhythm guitar.  Sell the size of the choruses a little more.  Not a bad place to start a mix from.  Like I said...would be cool to hear where that mix goes.

mdifazio – The first thing that strikes me is the panning.  Nothing feels like it's happening on the sides with any sort of strength.  There's some real weirdness happening with the lead vocal...like a de-esser's gone haywire or something.  The top keeps coming and going.
 The rhythm guitar that's about halfway between center and right doesn't sound too bad, but it's kinda by itself over there.  Woah...the chorus without much rhythm guitar...man...I'm not sure what to think of that...like I said...the imbalance in terms of panning leaves me feeling a little cold.  I'd be really interested as to your thoughts about panning and arrangement of this based on the tracks that you had.

Fiasco – totally raw intro!  Attaboy!  Fuck 'em!  Leave it for the mastering guy.  Love the mids on the guitars in the intro...just kinda brash and ballsy and old school.  Again here, the snare feels thin.  Woah top end on the backing vox vs. the kinda telephoned out lead vox!  That doesn't congeal those voices for me.  I get the need for some separation, but that might be a bit much.  Drums sound solid aside from my earlier snare comment.  Toms especially sound big, but would like to hear a little more spread from them.  No second vocal line in the second chorus?  Just the straight harmony?  Why'd you pick that as your second vocal priority?  I”m genuinely curious.  I loved the interplay of the other vocal line against the lead vocal, but I could see where someone could be led to make a different decision there...what was your rationale?

Jonah A. Kort – WOW woof on the bottom of that kick.  The clean guitar coming up the middle in the first verse feels like it's kinda stepping on the vocal...like the vocal level vs. the bass and drums is good, but the guitar is clouding things up.  Like the  spectrum of the guitars in the chorus, but again here, the single note line is up a little loud for my tastes...would like to hear more of the chord rhythm guitar filling up the sides.  Drums feel good and clean...snare has a “pop” to it that I like.  Dry solo again...or at least fairly dry...I like that okay.  The sub drops are a nice touch.  The first one felt like a bit much, but the second one on the tom hit was sweet.  Made that punch nicely.  The delay vocal in the last chorus felt a little bit out on its own.  Good spectral use overall.

That's what I got im me for tonight...I'm going to get some shuteye and get this stuff finished up tomorrow!  LAST COUPLE!!!
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Ian Combs
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fiasco ( P.M.DuMont )

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Re: IMP 23 Discussion Thread
« Reply #43 on: December 18, 2009, 05:38:03 pm »

iCombs wrote on Fri, 18 December 2009 01:46


Fiasco – totally raw intro!  Attaboy!  Fuck 'em!  Leave it for the mastering guy.  Love the mids on the guitars in the intro...just kinda brash and ballsy and old school.  Again here, the snare feels thin.  Woah top end on the backing vox vs. the kinda telephoned out lead vox!  That doesn't congeal those voices for me.  I get the need for some separation, but that might be a bit much.  Drums sound solid aside from my earlier snare comment.  Toms especially sound big, but would like to hear a little more spread from them.  No second vocal line in the second chorus?  Just the straight harmony?  Why'd you pick that as your second vocal priority?  I”m genuinely curious.  I loved the interplay of the other vocal line against the lead vocal, but I could see where someone could be led to make a different decision there...what was your rationale?



Thanks for listening Ian, and thanks for offering the tracks.

Man that snare was giving me fits, and no trickery was blowin' my skirt up.
Don't know why though... preference, I suppose.

To be honest, I don't know which second vocal line you are referring to.
I opened up the project (yeesh, what was I thinking) and I see the VOX and VOX double but no counterpoint track. Did I miss something?
I did downplay the double, though.
Perhaps my "Producer" hat slipped down over my ears!

Either way, with this tune I envisioned organic rock,
and with the track count it was challenging to include everything and still present an idea of a band performance.

Good tune, good singing, good fun. Thanks again.
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Philip
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