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Author Topic: IMP 23 Discussion Thread  (Read 9549 times)

iCombs

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IMP 23 Discussion Thread
« on: November 12, 2009, 04:43:43 pm »

I wanted to start this NOW so we don't get chatting too much in the submission thread only to have it locked.

So...here we are...where to start...

I did this track to test out a few things...1 was playing with guitar amp micing a little more and getting out of my comfort zone of constantly playing it safe with a couple mics.  This was a singly U87, printed with compression and EQ to tape.  I wanted to commit to something and on the whole, I'm pretty happy with that.  In retrospect, I probably could've been a little more aggressive still, but whatever.  Baby steps, right?

The big thing for me on this was the drums.  A lot of you seemed very excited about working with those tracks...I was, too.  The thing that I didn't want to bring up until mixes were in?  Those drums are fake.  All programmed.  Superior Drummer 2.0 using the sample set created at Allaire.  So...no...I didn't really engineer those.  I did this track to try my hand at programming drums in a MIDI environment (something I'm just learning to do but am actually in surprising demand for right now (which is to say, any demand at all)), and if that wasn't something that stuck out like a sore thumb to you guys, then I guess I'm on the right track as far as that's concerned.

So...with that little bit of disclosure out of the way, I'm going to toss my big Ultrasones on and start listening to some mixes!  I'll start doing stuff in order of posting.

I'm glad y'all seemed to have a good time with this one!
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Ian Combs
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Miguel M.

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Re: IMP 23 Discussion Thread
« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2009, 05:18:01 pm »

Regarding the tracks. I really feel that most of the stuff there is working to make a good song! A couple of tracks that i've removed, some things out of tune, but other than that, and according to the song genre, I believe it is well done. Even with programmed drums, it works for the genre.

But I did miss things that could make the song more interesting. Other sound textures, more different guitar parts/sounds, back vocals on the verse, maybe some percursion, etc...

I felt the song was somehow poor in terms of arrangement but maybe it was the idea, to put a straight forward rock song...

Tomorrow i'll listen to all mixes and i'll try to comment on them...
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Greg Dixon

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Re: IMP 23 Discussion Thread
« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2009, 05:19:51 pm »

Ha! Some of the snare part sounded very mechanical to me. In fact I soloed it a few times to check it wasn't sequenced. The hat bleed and bleed from other drums completely fooled me.
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iCombs

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Re: IMP 23 Discussion Thread
« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2009, 06:01:07 pm »

Greg Dixon wrote on Thu, 12 November 2009 16:19

Ha! Some of the snare part sounded very mechanical to me. In fact I soloed it a few times to check it wasn't sequenced. The hat bleed and bleed from other drums completely fooled me.


So it was at least plausible, then?  I figure...if you're going to end up in a situation with a drummer who you're going to BD anyways...why not just program it and not deal with all the headaches that come along with that much editing?

If you wouldn't mind pointing out a couple things that felt mechanical, I'd love some feedback on that...I'm trying to nail down the little dynamic things and having stuff pointed out to me that I may have shrugged off would be great.

And yeah...superior is pretty friggin' impressive as far as providing realism.  I considered doing a "magic" far room that didn't have any brass in it...but I figured that might blow the whole thing...and I decided that I liked my rough mix too much to warrant going back and getting dorky.

Of course...then my rough mix got deleted...so the mix I delivered is really my second effort...and I'm not sure I like it as much as my first...but oh well.
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Ian Combs
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iCombs

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Re: IMP 23 Discussion Thread
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2009, 06:18:06 pm »

Here's the first set.  I'm going to come at these from a producer/artist sort of standpoint...perhaps we'll all get a different perspective on the mixes from this angle.


Greg Dixon – Cut out the countoff...guessing that's going to be a common theme...it's always been part of the song for me.  The “WOO” too?  Damn.  Thought that was a bit of fun.  I like the verses a lot, and the bass is growling really nicely...perhaps a little further forward in the mix than I'd have put it, but it's doing a good job driving the song.  The guitar balances in the chorus are a pretty gutsy choice...I can see how you'd go there, and it's definitely not the safe bet.  It feels a little empty without all the rhythm guitar support, especially through the solo...loses a bit of size.  The vocal treatment is pretty good, if a little dark...but that's hard to really get a hold on with the mp3 factor.  Left the bass swell in at the end...like it!

Billybehdaz – HOLY CRAP BRIGHT!  Of course, I just listened to Greg's mix, so that's throwing me a little.  Let me reference something else to reset my ears and start over.

Okay...better.  Really using the hell out of those rooms, eh?  Like the depth there.  Mix feels really forward and aggressive...the guitars are pretty dominant in this mix...like the sparkle in the verses.  Woah edit!  Not a bad idea, but the execution falls a little short.  I can still hear the attack of the next set of guitar chords and that throws me out of the song a bit.  The aggressiveness of your mix propels the choruses well...not sure how the verses sit.  Tom/bass hit gone before the last chorus...man...I miss that...definitely taking chances with the editing.  No bass swell, either.  

Southboundloco – Didn't clean the top up at all!  Drums are punching HARD...perhaps a little on the bright side, but they've got some attitude.  The lead vocal feels like it's coming from behind the snare and off to the left.  Holy crap are those backing vocals huge.  They feel like they're out in front of the lead vocal.  And everything really sucks in at the chorus and starts to feel smaller than the verses...which would kinda reverse the natural dynamics of the song from verse to chorus.  The de-essing in the chorus makes me sound like I have a lisp.  Like Sylvester the cat lisp.  Interesting balance in the solo section.  Interestingly enough, those sliding octave parts in that section used to be the solo (I was the bass player in the band that wrote this, so I didn't get in on that part when I was in the band)...but I think the new solo is probably a stronger part.

Music Junky – Snare catches me first.  Has a lot of “pang” to it.  Vocal might be out front a bit far in the verse.  Love the grit and clank in the bass track...kills in the chorus.  The balances in the chorus feel pretty good...it feels like the verses need to get put back down to the intensity level where they belong.  The vocal is DEFINIITELY too far out front in the verses.  The 2 buss compression feels like a bit much...the whole thing is a bit squishy.  The L/R lead guitar thing at the solo plays out okay, but nothing clearly takes the place of the lead vocal there and that sort of muddles the part for me.  No delay vox?  I thought those were big for intensity, especially considering that they happened in transitional places.

El-duderino – A bit more subdued than the last couple mixes...perhaps even a little low-fi (not in a bad way).  Everything balances nicely through the first verse.  Vocal is placed nicely in the guitars.  Nice explosion into the chorus.  That first downbeat has a lot of pop to it.  Really like that.  It doesn't feel like you used a lot of compression...which means in this case that the dynamics of the song section to section seem to just happen by nature of the arrangement...which, IMO, is a good thing.  The lead vocal could probably stand for a little brightening up or just some more aggression...but then again, I don't know how well that'd play against the guitars...which feel pretty natural.  As a bass player, I'd probably ask for a little more top or honk or aggression, but I think it holds the bottom together well.  No tom hit  before the last chorus...somehow that just robs that section of a little drama for me.  On the whole, though, this is a solid mix.

Danko – Reverse intro!!! One I wouldn't have thought of.  Nice.  Kick sounds kinda big and metally.  Chorus much on the verse guitars?  Swirl, swirl!  Did you tune these vocals?  They feel different, somehow.  Part of that could be the L/R vocals going on in the chorus.  This mix is really aggressive and forward in a sort of “A Perfect Circle” sort of way...I like some of the ideas with the delay automation...would be nice to hear a little slower delay so I could make out the words being repeated.  The second chorus comes in with a big guitar rip...I really like that.  The guitar solo seems a bit like it's all by itself...would be nice it hear it fit into the track a little more.  The blend in the chorus is really pretty nice as far as vocal levels and guitars and such are concerned.

Martthie_08 – Thumpy drums.  In a good way...I like the size the snare has.  Feels natural and warm.  There's something mono in the balances...woah.  The panning is CRAZY compared to what everyone else has done so far.  In some ways I like the risk, but in other ways I feel like it's taking away from the power of that intro guitar riff.  The middle of this mix image is so nice in the verses.  It feels nice...comfortable to me.  The chorus definitely isn't opening up the way I'd imagined it.  The vocal feels separated from the rest of the mix in the chorus.  Really making use of that bass dirt track in the chorus and guitar solo...another L/R guitar solo section...not knocking your mix especially hard for that...it just doesn't seem to keep the power and size established by the chorus.  

Jdubdrums – NOOB!!  NOOB!!!  Welcome...hope you enjoyed mixing this!  Lotta hair on that high-hat!  Vocal feels good and forward, but the guitars feel like they're well back comparatively, at least in the verse.  Wow...chorus comes in big, but the lead vocal doesn't follow suit...kinda gets buried in the middle against the other vocals.  Total side note, but it's 5:30pm where I am as I'm typing this and it's dark out.  I'll be glad to see the winter solstice pass this year.  The song does the right thing in the chorus but the lead vocal REALLY has to come along with.  The guitars feel a bit like they're just sitting there...you could go after them more aggressively and still be well out of the danger zone.  The snare feels like it's had it's punch glands removed a bit...it's precise and it's placement is pretty good and I can HEAR it, but I can't FEEL it.  First person in a while to leave the swell in at the end.  

osumosan – DAMN that kick has some size.  BIG.  The drums feel really big and epic-y.  GRR!!!  The chorus feels like it's on a diet.  If those rhythm guitars came up a bit, it would be just ROCKING huge...part of perhaps a larger point is that the chorus has always felt (to me) a little cacophonous and that was part of it's appeal to me...it feels really big and noisy and even a little obnoxious...which helped set it off from the fairly polite/stock verses.  The treatment on the lead line is perfect...again...it's  the support that I feel like I'm missing.  Really...that's the biggest thing that keeps this mix from being just HUGE...everything else about it is awesome and could stand up well against bigger main rhythm guitars.

Baddo – out of the gate rocking....left the WOO in!!!  Trem guitar!! Nice...feels a little wobbly...mybe if it tucked back in the mix just a touch it'd keep me from feeling like my head was being shaken (I'm listening in cans because I'm on the road).  JESUS does that bass sound just BADASS in the chorus.  SICK.  As a bassist, it warms the cockles of my...well...cockle.  It might actually be a little far forward compared to the guitars...but I like the general treatment.  Chorus on the dirt in the second half of the second verse?  Not bad...definitely a different element.  There's a lot of space in the middle of this chorus mix...and I'm not sure I don't like it.  The guitars feel a little restricted, perhaps.  But not offensively so.  If I lived in a world where this song was a massive hit, this would be the mix that would get delivered to modern rock radio stations so it could sound big next to a Nickelback song.  Like the verb on the tom slam.  I really like the polish of this mix...wow...the end was really startling!  I haven't ever even heard that before, but damn...nice work.  Perhaps just a little more guitar punch (MAYBE some low mids or maybe just more level in the mix) and this is another really dominant sounding mix.

...alright...that's as far as my ears are going to take me for right now...gonna take a break and go to a NACA convention...should be a hoot tonight!

(did I just say “should be a hoot?”  Damn...I must have just spent 2 days in a van driving from Minneapolis to Hartford...)
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Ian Combs
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Greg Dixon

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Re: IMP 23 Discussion Thread
« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2009, 07:38:07 pm »

iCombs wrote on Fri, 13 November 2009 10:01

Greg Dixon wrote on Thu, 12 November 2009 16:19

Ha! Some of the snare part sounded very mechanical to me. In fact I soloed it a few times to check it wasn't sequenced. The hat bleed and bleed from other drums completely fooled me.


So it was at least plausible, then?  I figure...if you're going to end up in a situation with a drummer who you're going to BD anyways...why not just program it and not deal with all the headaches that come along with that much editing?

If you wouldn't mind pointing out a couple things that felt mechanical, I'd love some feedback on that...I'm trying to nail down the little dynamic things and having stuff pointed out to me that I may have shrugged off would be great.




Actually 'very mechanical' was a bit harsh. You did a very convincing job. Very plausible.

It's just the snare in the chorus sections that sounds a bit stiff to me.

iCombs wrote on Fri, 13 November 2009 10:18



Greg Dixon – Cut out the countoff...guessing that's going to be a common theme...it's always been part of the song for me.  The “WOO” too?  Damn.  Thought that was a bit of fun.  I like the verses a lot, and the bass is growling really nicely...perhaps a little further forward in the mix than I'd have put it, but it's doing a good job driving the song.  The guitar balances in the chorus are a pretty gutsy choice...I can see how you'd go there, and it's definitely not the safe bet.  It feels a little empty without all the rhythm guitar support, especially through the solo...loses a bit of size.  The vocal treatment is pretty good, if a little dark...but that's hard to really get a hold on with the mp3 factor.  Left the bass swell in at the end...like it!




I thought the bass was one of the best parts of the track. I ended up using the DI track instead of the amp, with that Free Line6 plug they just gave away, using the SVT model. I kept the distorted track in.

I had the more melodic parts up in the chorus to give it more contrast to the verses and help it 'soar' and hoped the bass would fill it up more.

Listening this morning, the vocal is a bit dark. The vocal was the part of the mix I was least happy with. I struggled getting it to where I felt it sat well and consistently. Parts were too essy for my liking and I probably overcompensated for that. It was actually brighter than it is, right up to when I printed the mix. I should have taken a break and come back for one last listen, but it was late and I was too tired.

Sorry to lose the count and woo. That's where I always find these IMPs slightly artificial. I like having someone to argue with. Mind you I still like it better without them.  Rolling Eyes
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j.hall

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Re: IMP 23 Discussion Thread
« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2009, 11:33:57 pm »

i actually submitted a mix this time!!!

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Big C

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Re: IMP 23 Discussion Thread
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2009, 12:32:11 am »

I have one up too, just uploaded.  Submission thread is already on lockdown, but it's there.  Hope some folks will give a listen.  I look forward to reading this all tomorrow at work and listening to everyone's mixes!

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iCombs

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Re: IMP 23 Discussion Thread
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2009, 10:29:04 am »

Greg Dixon wrote on Thu, 12 November 2009 18:38

iCombs wrote on Fri, 13 November 2009 10:01

Greg Dixon wrote on Thu, 12 November 2009 16:19

Ha! Some of the snare part sounded very mechanical to me. In fact I soloed it a few times to check it wasn't sequenced. The hat bleed and bleed from other drums completely fooled me.


So it was at least plausible, then?  I figure...if you're going to end up in a situation with a drummer who you're going to BD anyways...why not just program it and not deal with all the headaches that come along with that much editing?

If you wouldn't mind pointing out a couple things that felt mechanical, I'd love some feedback on that...I'm trying to nail down the little dynamic things and having stuff pointed out to me that I may have shrugged off would be great.




Actually 'very mechanical' was a bit harsh. You did a very convincing job. Very plausible.

It's just the snare in the chorus sections that sounds a bit stiff to me.

iCombs wrote on Fri, 13 November 2009 10:18



Greg Dixon – Cut out the countoff...guessing that's going to be a common theme...it's always been part of the song for me.  The “WOO” too?  Damn.  Thought that was a bit of fun.  I like the verses a lot, and the bass is growling really nicely...perhaps a little further forward in the mix than I'd have put it, but it's doing a good job driving the song.  The guitar balances in the chorus are a pretty gutsy choice...I can see how you'd go there, and it's definitely not the safe bet.  It feels a little empty without all the rhythm guitar support, especially through the solo...loses a bit of size.  The vocal treatment is pretty good, if a little dark...but that's hard to really get a hold on with the mp3 factor.  Left the bass swell in at the end...like it!




I thought the bass was one of the best parts of the track. I ended up using the DI track instead of the amp, with that Free Line6 plug they just gave away, using the SVT model. I kept the distorted track in.

I had the more melodic parts up in the chorus to give it more contrast to the verses and help it 'soar' and hoped the bass would fill it up more.

Listening this morning, the vocal is a bit dark. The vocal was the part of the mix I was least happy with. I struggled getting it to where I felt it sat well and consistently. Parts were too essy for my liking and I probably overcompensated for that. It was actually brighter than it is, right up to when I printed the mix. I should have taken a break and come back for one last listen, but it was late and I was too tired.

Sorry to lose the count and woo. That's where I always find these IMPs slightly artificial. I like having someone to argue with. Mind you I still like it better without them.  Rolling Eyes


That's totally cool...I figure that I've probably got a better perspective than anyone for what I think the SONG should be and how the mix could best serve that intent...and I can tell you that just through the first set of listens, there are plenty of ways to make me happy with the mixes SO LONG AS certain things are doing their jobs.  From a producer/artist standpoint, I'm not so concerned with "is this the most perfectest EQ for the high hat," but more of the really big picture stuff..."does this mix feel like it has the power that the song has?"  "Are the dynamics where they should be?"  "Does the mix bring any additional energy to the song that wasn't there before?"  It's kinda macro stuff but it's surprising how much that those things can get overlooked...and I'll admit that even I get bogged down...I'll tell you that the monitor mix I did for my vocal sessions was 95% of the way there and it took me 15 minutes.  Unfortunately I lost that mix due to an accidental deletion, but all it would've taken was a little more tweezing on the vocal and some automation and it was done as far as I was concerned.

I saw an interview with CLA recently and it dawned on me why he works the way he does...He gets sounds almost as fast as alive sound guy...and then spends the majority of his time in automation.  He's not bogging himself down with "is this the PERFECT EQ on this kick drum?"  He gets a sound; he starts working.  Not a lot of looking back.  Now, granted, dude has a bajillion years of experience doing what he does, so his instincts are pretty sharp, but there's something to be learned here and that is that the SOUND isn't crucially important when put next to the SONG.

Just woke up...going to start listening to more mixes in a little bit.
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Ian Combs
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j.hall

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Re: IMP 23 Discussion Thread
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2009, 11:24:21 am »

Big C wrote on Thu, 12 November 2009 23:32

I have one up too, just uploaded.  Submission thread is already on lockdown, but it's there.  Hope some folks will give a listen.  I look forward to reading this all tomorrow at work and listening to everyone's mixes!




sorry man, i locked it early.  i knew this was going to happen.

i worked an 18 hour day yesterday.  not an excuse, just saying i was really tired.  leaving the studio, i just locked it up and went home.

again, sorry bout that.
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iCombs

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Re: IMP 23 Discussion Thread
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2009, 01:28:12 pm »

ROUND 2!!!

Rankus – Like the intro.  Things feel like they're sitting really well...the lead vocal is a bit buried in the chorus...not unlike Greg Dixon's chorus, actually...main rhythm guitars are a bit further back...I'm actually losing words on the lead vocal in the guitars.  The rhythm track balance isn't bad, but I GOTTA GOTTA GOTTA be able to hear every word...even if the lyrics don't make much sense.  It seems like the compression is inverting the dynamics of the vocal.  Same goes for the solo section...what's featuring there?  The sliding octave guitar or the solo?  FWIW, I think the guitars sound just fine...I know that was a concern for you...I thought those slid into place just fine.

Reno – Really dry...and I don't think that's a bad thing.  The vocal treatment is really tasteful...there's something about the dryer treatment overall that makes the chorus feel slower and calmer to me...which, if played off the chorus right, is AWESOME.  The chorus comes in well...I like the delays on some of the second guitar stuff.  I think this mix is really solid, if on the generally safe side.  I think there's perhaps a little more excitement in the chorus than your mix lets on.  I'm really enjoying the more relaxed sonics in the verse...but they feel like they should be launching into a bigger, meaner chorus.  The guitar solo is in a nice spot, even off to the left like that...it's still an obvious feature.  I really like the intimacy of the vocal right before the last chorus.  Good, solid mix.  I think that finding a way to make the chorus a little bigger would serve the song's dynamics a little better.

Miguel M – The kick feels like it's part cannon.  I like the guitar edits in the verse.  WOAH...the lead vocal is just standing on the track in the chorus...like...it's feet are on the band's shoulders...it only needs it's head above the band.  The vocal treatment is generally good...but the rest of the band feels really dark and muffled in comparison to the vocal.  I can only barely hear the cymbals...and there seem to be snare hits disappearing here and there...did you use any samples?  The very, very top of the backing vocals are all I can make out of them...I can't hear much for actual notes.  I'm not feeling a lot of connection in this mix...like...everything's in it, but not everything is connecting to the things around it.

iCombs – you lazy ass, you didn't even clean up the top of the song!!  Guitars are pretty well forward...the mix actually feels a bit scooped out in the low mids.  Everything is pretty aggressive and forward and bright, which is not something I'm used to from you.  The chorus feels good and big though...nice punch into that first chorus...the bass clank is perhaps a bit much, you egotistical prick.  At least you didn't get yourself in the way of the arrangement.  Edited some harmonies out of the chorus, I see.  Not a bad choice.  Really feature those rhythm guitars...toms feel good top to bottom, which I know you normally suck pretty severely at.  Y'know...you really should get rid of that beard.  Vocal delays in the break section are definitely too much...should have pulled those back.  Automation...you know...the thing that makes mixing cool and good?  Try some, dink.

All I have time for right now, but that's the end of page one...gotta go work the NACA convention...be back this evening after our showcase!
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Ian Combs
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Reno

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Re: IMP 23 Discussion Thread
« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2009, 02:13:03 pm »

iCombs wrote on Fri, 13 November 2009 12:28

ROUND 2!!!



Reno – Really dry...and I don't think that's a bad thing.  The vocal treatment is really tasteful...there's something about the dryer treatment overall that makes the chorus feel slower and calmer to me...which, if played off the chorus right, is AWESOME.  The chorus comes in well...I like the delays on some of the second guitar stuff.  I think this mix is really solid, if on the generally safe side.  I think there's perhaps a little more excitement in the chorus than your mix lets on.  I'm really enjoying the more relaxed sonics in the verse...but they feel like they should be launching into a bigger, meaner chorus.  The guitar solo is in a nice spot, even off to the left like that...it's still an obvious feature.  I really like the intimacy of the vocal right before the last chorus.  Good, solid mix.  I think that finding a way to make the chorus a little bigger would serve the song's dynamics a little better.


All I have time for right now, but that's the end of page one...gotta go work the NACA convention...be back this evening after our showcase!



thank you!
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Reno

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Re: IMP 23 Discussion Thread
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2009, 02:14:35 pm »

Baddo2

Good mix, well balanced, good levels. Perhaps too much reverb and depth... The band seems to be so far away from me! But it’s easy to listen... I like you “hi-fi” sound with a lot af of low and and highs and a midrange sweet as possible

Billybedhaz

Your mix must be good but de pumping mastering you made don’t help...
Just too much reverb on vocals and snare is so far ...  and plastic

El duderino

Good work... miss a little punch in the kick but it works. Voclas are a little small

Graham
Nice Intimist mix... pretty similar to mine... Vocals are just too deep and don’t  Lead the song
Bass is in the Coridor... lol. But it’s good and clean work

iCombs
It’s your song so I think you mix it like you want to hear it! It sound very tiny to me... Come on guy!!! Your song is great don’t be shy make it sound BIG, LOUD and warm to everyone! Exept the kick that hammered my face, the others isntruments seems to be hide behind the teacher and say “COUCOU on est l
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rankus

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Re: IMP 23 Discussion Thread
« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2009, 04:34:45 pm »

iCombs wrote on Fri, 13 November 2009 10:28



Rankus – Like the intro.  Things feel like they're sitting really well...the lead vocal is a bit buried in the chorus...not unlike Greg Dixon's chorus, actually...main rhythm guitars are a bit further back...I'm actually losing words on the lead vocal in the guitars.  The rhythm track balance isn't bad, but I GOTTA GOTTA GOTTA be able to hear every word...even if the lyrics don't make much sense.  It seems like the compression is inverting the dynamics of the vocal.  Same goes for the solo section...what's featuring there?  The sliding octave guitar or the solo?  FWIW, I think the guitars sound just fine...I know that was a concern for you...I thought those slid into place just fine.



Thanks Ian!  Ya the guitars are fine... I just thought with the high level of tracking on the other instruments that they were the weaker (but not weak) link. In other words the tracks were real pro.. a little more attention to the gtrs and it would 100% pro.

Ya, my mix was very hasty... like the CLA thing you were mentioning above... very much by the seat of my pants, live mix, in about three or four hours including sorting tracks.. no time for automation hence deciding which level the vox should be: (chorus or verses) .

Haha good catch on the lead break... honestly that slipped past me completely!

Great job on this tune dude!  Thanks for sharing it!



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rankus

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Re: IMP 23 Discussion Thread
« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2009, 04:42:32 pm »

Reno wrote on Fri, 13 November 2009 11:14



RANKUS
Another mastered version. But this time it’s a listenable mastered... It’s warm and very well balanced in the low end . A lot of nice harmonics . AURAL enhancer?? Sounds good! Exept the double solo parts... :-S



Nope not "mastered".  I did throw a limiter across the two bus although only about 1.5db reduction... There's  plenty of headroom at only about -10db rms.

I mix LOUD... Having seen premaster mixes from Andy Wallace my mix is not as loud as his.

Thanks for the props... Ya I'm a bit embarrassed about the double lead... completely missed that,,

These IMP's do not see my full attention or best work. I just try to get a good kick, snare and vocal, and balance things... if it were a paying gig this would be my starting point, then automation and artists input for the final.


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jdubdrums

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Re: IMP 23 Discussion Thread
« Reply #15 on: November 13, 2009, 10:30:15 pm »

Listening through these mixes, I find a few things interesting:

1. The wildly varying amounts of midrange frequencies between mixes. I'm hearing a lot of versions with scooped-out low mids and others with lots of high mids. My mix is quite "wooly" compared to most of the submissions. I guess I can contribute that to not using any reference material while mixing to see where I stood.

2. Quite a few of you used a really deep snare sound, which I find really puzzling. The source tracks provided a snare drum with a lot of "crack" to it. Ian's comment on my snare sound to be a little anemic is spot on, and his snare sound has that body that mine is missing.

3. A few of the mixes have vocals that are pretty cloudy.

I intend to ask a few questions as I listen more to everyone's work. My first question is directed at iCombs, since he submitted the tracks:

What is going on with the snare-rim track? it has a strange attack on the front end of each hit.

My next question is: how many of you used every single drum track? I did, and felt that every time I took one away, I felt I was losing something important.
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j.hall

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Re: IMP 23 Discussion Thread
« Reply #16 on: November 13, 2009, 11:24:07 pm »

Reno wrote on Fri, 13 November 2009 13:14


JHALL
Whaou!!! It’s just amazing... The guitars are awesome (use what?, how you made it sound so SWEET and powerful) The bass is just perfect... Drums are big and depth... Vocals ARE HUGE!!!!!  Nothing to say

I stop for tonight...

after listening Jhall mix, I connot be objective before 2... years ...lol



thanks man!  although there is plenty wrong with my mix.

i'll take a look at what i did to the guitars in the next few days.  i did this mix FAST.  probably spent 1 hour on it.
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Reno

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Re: IMP 23 Discussion Thread
« Reply #17 on: November 14, 2009, 12:47:19 am »

1 hour?!???

sometimes the best results are the fast work... just went to the essentials and it's good... with a rock song why not?


I use everydrums tracks exept the rim one...
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Billybehdaz

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Re: IMP 23 Discussion Thread
« Reply #18 on: November 14, 2009, 06:09:43 am »

jdubdrums wrote on Fri, 13 November 2009 21:30

Listening through these mixes, I find a few things interesting:

1. The wildly varying amounts of midrange frequencies between mixes. I'm hearing a lot of versions with scooped-out low mids and others with lots of high mids. My mix is quite "wooly" compared to most of the submissions. I guess I can contribute that to not using any reference material while mixing to see where I stood.




Agreed.  The tracks themselves were quite wooly.  I noticed this after setting levels and importing the reference I chose.  I'm embarassed to admit what I used for this track (and I don't want to offend Ian!) but it was a modern male rock track mixed by one of the big names.  I ended up using a lot of subtractive EQ throughout the low-high mids on various tracks to get my mix as bright as it is.  Every time it tried to go the other way and add lows/highs it started to get boomy and harsh.  It still ended up way brighter than I would normally mix, but I attribute that to the reference I used (which was an out of the ordinary choice for me).

jdubdrums wrote on Fri, 13 November 2009 21:30


My next question is: how many of you used every single drum track? I did, and felt that every time I took one away, I felt I was losing something important.


Not me - didn't use the mono OH and had the near and far room tracks very low in the mix, relied on the mid tracks for the rooms.

Off to work (5am on Saturday!) should have some time tonight or tomorrow to offer comments.
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getyoursnackon

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Re: IMP 23 Discussion Thread
« Reply #19 on: November 14, 2009, 08:28:11 am »

i used a tom lord alge mix for referencing... my main goal was to get a lot of perceived loudness in the mix, and a really phat commercial sound (L1-ed a lot of stuff to oblivion!)

i used all the drum tracks besides the mid and far room tracks -- i just L1 crushed the near room track and it seemed to sound huge enough for my liking  Very Happy
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iCombs

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Re: IMP 23 Discussion Thread
« Reply #20 on: November 14, 2009, 11:32:13 am »

j.hall wrote on Fri, 13 November 2009 22:24

i did this mix FAST.  probably spent 1 hour on it.


IMO, that sort of impulsive energy that comes from making a decision quickly and building from those first impressions is EXACTLY what I was talking about earlier...once you've got your chops together, using your instinct and not waffling back and forth will only serve to make a better mix.
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martthie_08

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Re: IMP 23 Discussion Thread
« Reply #21 on: November 14, 2009, 05:14:16 pm »

ok, just as quick as I pulled my version of this mix, here some short opinions on the submitted mixes Smile

Greg Dixon
cool, somehow reminds of me of DinosaurJR, very earthy sounding with good punch, needs some EQ in the mastering, bass git too midrangey for me

Billybehdaz
wow, this one sounds very exciting but at the same time I'm missing a natural touch, I guess sometimes one can't have both

southboundloco
tasty smack on the snare, good chorus transition, cool overdrive on bass git, but vocals too distant / chambery sounding in verse, something is dragging me to the left in the stereo image

Music_Junky
like the drum sound, nice and direct vocals, good overall energy, bass a bit too plugin disto sounding for me, somethings pumping right from the start

el duderino
sounds nice and open, good balance, pretty wide mix, snare drum might deserve a more hifi verb / cymbals a bit heavy in the chorus.

danko
cool, sounds pretty hard rocky to me, has a special character, like the guitars and vocals in this context, but the drums sounds are not my world...

martthie_08
ok, I had some new plugins to try out, that is one of the reasons I love the IMP sessions Smile The BXdigital V2 with Stereo Spreader was one of them, the other one the Sonalksis Mastering Limiter, both Plugins kind of pushed to the max on the 2-Bus.
I think the recordings for this imp were swell and I wished other producers would send me files as well prepared as these, haha. The Drum Room setups really gave some options, also cool that there was a mono overhead (what model was that mic?). I augmented the Snare with a lower pitch sample.

jdubdrums
somehow I couldn't download this mix, must check it again later, moving on to the next mix...

osumosan
aspects of this mix I really like, the vocal processing, cool delay on the guitar solo, but overall too roomy / uncontrolled sounding for me

Baddo
cool trem on the verse guitars, like how all the vocals go together in the chorus good work, overall pretty compressed, cool ending

rankus
a rather roomy / wet mix, I like how in the overall picture everything blends together nicely.

Reno
nice direct mix, good balance and vibe, I like the "dirty" guitars, maybe the kick sticks out a bit in the verses

Miguel M.
nice weight on the kick makes the verse groove interesting, nice sizzle on the lead vocals and cool use of the doubled chorus vocal, top end is a bit closed (maybe overheads up?), snare sample or processing not my cup of tea Smile

iCombs
very modern / rock sounding, good balance and overall controlled sound. like the chorus with the dirty bass kicking through, kick beater is a notch too dominant for my taste

mafigi
wow, this one is loud. cool work on the spongy bass sound, maybe it is the 2 bus compression that brings up the room too much

d gauss
nice thick guitars, cool short "breath" verb on the snare, juicy drive on the bass guitar, earthy vocal sound.
dynamics on the verge of "swimming", could be a bit more open on the top

mdifazio
interesting approach, boxy and very vocal up! though the playback is overall too small sounding, might be cool for strokes / kinks 60ies stuff but this band need a more hifi sound!

Fiasco
nice steady and solid drums, instruments need more separation with regards to eq and stereo imaging though...

Jonah A. Kort
solid mix, love the guitar sounds,  good "open the curtain" on the chorus, overall a bit scooped and a bit too much subs

graham
sounds very natural and unpretentious in good way, vocals could need a push, drums are kinda overpowering

Josh McArdle
has a "live sound", as if you were watching the band on stage, everything is in one roomy context, individual approach that sets this one apart from all the other mixes.

j.hall
powerful mix, could profit from some automation, chorus sounds great, wide and open. cool that the vocal is rather dry, kick drum sounds a bit too mechanical though, works well with the bass for a solid low end though



getyoursnackon

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Re: IMP 23 Discussion Thread
« Reply #22 on: November 15, 2009, 12:04:38 am »

let me know what you think of my mix as well if you get a chance !
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mafigi

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Re: IMP 23 Discussion Thread
« Reply #23 on: November 15, 2009, 05:54:42 am »

martthie_08 wrote on Sat, 14 November 2009 23:14

ok, just as quick as I pulled my version of this mix, here some short opinions on the submitted mixes Smile

mafigi
wow, this one is loud. cool work on the spongy bass sound, maybe it is the 2 bus compression that brings up the room too much



Hi, thank you very much for listening, yes, the full drums and the rooms, are  grouping in two bus:  1) drum aux  and  2) parallel compression aux, with different gain fader.
I am like much.  
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Billybehdaz

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Re: IMP 23 Discussion Thread
« Reply #24 on: November 15, 2009, 10:34:27 am »

I downloaded all the mixes, here are my critiques in no particular order -

dgauss - little heavy in the low mids.  very dry overall.  nice lift in the chorus.  Out of tune bk vox stands out a lot.  Nice mix overall, just needs a little sculpting in the low mids and maybe a little more excitement.

graham - kick/bass balance off (too little bass)nice vocal sound, but like the previous mix tuning issues on bk vox are grating when featured this much.  Like the delay idea after 1st chorus - go for it more, turn it up!  I'd like to hear the snare a little wetter, at least in the chorus.  Good tones overall, just a little bass (guitar) light, especially in the verses.

jdubdrums - looks like I downloaded an HTML document instead of your mix, I'm gussing you didn't link directly to it?  My daw's not on the internet so I'll go back and try to get it again if I have time, sorry man..

MGT - sounds kinda monoish right off the bat, now it's opening up in the verse.  Little wooly in the low/low mids.  Vocal kind of steps on everything in the chorus, I'm guessing buss compressor.  Again with the monoish guitars, into/break kinda loses it's impact.  Like the snare sound, what did you do?  2nd chorus sounds more balanced.  Woa, like the dueling panned solo section, nice!  Pretty solid overall.

southboundloco - Great intro, nice and bright!  Good pop on the snare.  Verse vocals don't really fit the brightness of the track, sound kinda tubby.  Drums maybe too agressive in the verse (like my mix, I think Ian commented on this).  Low end gets sucked up in the chorus, probably due to all the mids/upper mids in the vox/guitars.  I like the overall agression, it's what I went for in my mix as well.

jhall - lots of sub-ish lows, but not overpowering, at least on my monitors. Kick sounds like a typewriter, not sure it fits this track, pretty metal.  Also not sure about the distorted bass in the verse, doesn't fit the vibe and it's a little clanky.  I'm missing the guitar licks in the choruses.  I would like to know you treated the bass/low mids?  Really nice overall, just not sure some of your choices fit the song, but that's subjective I guess.

OK - time for a break!
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fiasco ( P.M.DuMont )

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Re: IMP 23 Discussion Thread
« Reply #25 on: November 15, 2009, 10:50:48 am »

Southboundloco - Guitars a bit forward, perhaps a tad too much verb on the

snare, a bit more bass needed but maybe thats the guitars poking out. All in

all I liked it, felt dynamic.


shuv2000 - Not sure about that opening woo. Bass drum is kinda "loose". All the

cymbals are coming at me from the left. Don't necessarily like all the delay

treatments on the vocals. Did I miss a guitar track? Where did that solo come

from? Hmm.


Josh McArdle - Opening guitars too forward, need more bass as well. Snare verb

heavy. Is that a chorus on the vocals? Seems a bit distracting. Entire mix

lacking a little sparkle. I guess I did miss that little solo break. Hmm.


Big C-1 - Drums buried. Mix very unbalanced. Kinda hard to listen to. Sorry.


Osumosan - Seems like everyone is "rooming" out those drums. I like the vocal

treatment but a bit essey. Pretty good balance throughout. I like the lead

break. How did I miss that? Hmm.


Greg Dixon - Good bass. Drums as a whole could use some snap, perhaps just

brought forward a touch. Backing vocals a bit too loud. Good balance. What did

you do with that bass, if I may ask?


Music Junky - Vocals need some taming. Guitars perhaps too bright. Mix leaning

towards the top, needs some meat. Maybe it's the bright guitars.


More to come... need to go get prepared for the Bengals to put a whoopin' on

the Steelers.





Hopefully.
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jdubdrums

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Re: IMP 23 Discussion Thread
« Reply #26 on: November 15, 2009, 03:12:25 pm »

Guys (and gals if there are any):

don't right-click the link in my submission. You have to go to the site, then right-click the .mp3. It's an iDisk, not a site...takes all of 5 seconds to do.

Anyone know the code to link right to the file? Obviously what I posted didn't directly link to the audio.
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Greg Dixon

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Re: IMP 23 Discussion Thread
« Reply #27 on: November 15, 2009, 05:15:01 pm »

Fiasco wrote on Mon, 16 November 2009 02:50




Greg Dixon - Good bass. Drums as a whole could use some snap, perhaps just

brought forward a touch. Backing vocals a bit too loud. Good balance. What did

you do with that bass, if I may ask?





I used the DI track instead of the amp and ran it through the SVT model on that Line6 Pod Farm plug in they were giving away. There is some multiband compression at about 2:1 to tame the slight volume change between different frequencies. There's also a slight mid dip using the URS API graphic.

The distorted track was just left as it was. No eq, compression or riding the fader.
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fiasco ( P.M.DuMont )

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Re: IMP 23 Discussion Thread
« Reply #28 on: November 16, 2009, 06:29:52 pm »

Thanks for the explanation Greg.

The rest...


graham - Vocals seemed quiet at the beginning but good balance throughout. Nice

work.


Rankus - A bit squished. Good kick. The highs get a bit harsh especially in the

chorus sections, but nice balance between instruments.


Billybedaz - Drums slappy yet bombastic, a bit much for me. Too much

compression overall. Guitars sound good.


El duderino - Snare feels separated from rest of the mix, not quite sitting in

it. Cymbals on chorus coming from the left, distracts quite a bit. Not bad

otherwise.


Baddo2 - Not sure about the leslie treatments during verses. Bass runs poke out

a bit. Feels like the mix in general needs some excitement.


RENO - Snare not in the mix. A bit anemic in the lows.


iCombs - Pretty "quiet" offering which is not necessarily a bad thing. After

mastering, would the instruments be where you left them? A bit essey on the

vocals. Good balance and nice tracks... thanks for sharing. BTW, your singing

doesn't suck.


mafigi - Way too hot. Snare a bit thin, needs some body. I guess I don't like

the chorus cymbals coming so hevily from the side. Guitars sound nasally. Good

bass. Drums in general buried and somewhat unnatural sounding.


danko - Drums lost in the intro. Distorted guitars are sizzley and burying

every thing else. I like sone of the vocal treatments, maybe a bit much but

cool.


martthie 08 - Pretty dry, everything is certainly in plain sight. Snare could

use some more crack. Good balance throughout.


mdifazio - Vocals need taming. Bright, sizzley guitars. In general the

instruments don't sit very well together. Somewhat odd production choices.


jhall - Kick feels a db or two too hot during the verses. Vocals essey.

Distorted guitars on the chorus pretty hot. Cymbals somewhat strident. Snare

pretty great. Sounds like you spent a measley hour on it. Kidding... it's still

pretty rockin'.


Jonah A Kort - Guitars need some top. Pretty nice kick. Good drums. Mix in

general lacks some sparkle. Not bad though.


Miguel M -  Not really liking the drums, snare sounds pinched. What is that

weird noise @ 1:31? Needs work balancing instrumentation and tones.


jdubdrums - Distorted guitars during chorus a touch to hot. Vocals essey.

Decent balance.


d guass - Snare a bit outside the mix. Bass runs poking out. Some uneveness

here and there but decent.
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Reno

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Re: IMP 23 Discussion Thread
« Reply #29 on: November 17, 2009, 11:28:50 am »

Quote:

 Snare not in the mix. A bit anemic in the lows.


SO where it is???

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mafigi

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Re: IMP 23 Discussion Thread
« Reply #30 on: November 17, 2009, 12:05:34 pm »

Fiasco wrote on Tue, 17 November 2009 00:29



mafigi - Way too hot. Snare a bit thin, needs some body. I guess I don't like

the chorus cymbals coming so hevily from the side. Guitars sound nasally. Good

bass. Drums in general buried and somewhat unnatural sounding.




Hi, thanks for listening, the mix was tested for more than one control room, both with NS10, Wharfedale and Adam S3, can I ask you for your listening  hot-spot and lay-out ?
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fiasco ( P.M.DuMont )

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Re: IMP 23 Discussion Thread
« Reply #31 on: November 17, 2009, 12:56:37 pm »

Reno wrote on Tue, 17 November 2009 11:28

Quote:

 Snare not in the mix. A bit anemic in the lows.


SO where it is???




What I mean by not in the mix, is if I were to envision a performance of this song,
I would hear the instrumentation sitting naturally as if occuring in the same space.

I thought your snare, and several others, sounded as if it was coming from another performance.
Which is sometimes the problem with samples. No offense intended.
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fiasco ( P.M.DuMont )

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Re: IMP 23 Discussion Thread
« Reply #32 on: November 17, 2009, 01:48:47 pm »

mafigi wrote on Tue, 17 November 2009 12:05

Fiasco wrote on Tue, 17 November 2009 00:29



mafigi - Way too hot. Snare a bit thin, needs some body. I guess I don't like

the chorus cymbals coming so hevily from the side. Guitars sound nasally. Good

bass. Drums in general buried and somewhat unnatural sounding.




Hi, thanks for listening, the mix was tested for more than one control room, both with NS10, Wharfedale and Adam S3, can I ask you for your listening  hot-spot and lay-out ?


You're welcome.

I reviewed the submissions at mix posistion on Tannoy reveals and also on my home stereo (older sanyo amp, original Bose 201's).
I will be the first to admit that my mix posistion is suffering right now, as I am doing some acoustic reconfigurations.

I'll also be the first to admit that I've got alot to learn.

Most of my comments regarding your submission, and really everyones' submissions, are subjective to a large extent.
I like to hear things as I would like to hear them. Simple.

The, what I consider unbalanced, cymbals was problematic for me as a listener. I also believe a mix should have a "fair" amount of dynamics left for the mastering engineer. How much is certainly subjective.

Again, my opinion, and no offense meant.
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mafigi

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Re: IMP 23 Discussion Thread
« Reply #33 on: November 17, 2009, 02:34:02 pm »

[quote title=Fiasco wrote on Tue, 17 November 2009 19:48][quote title=mafigi wrote on Tue, 17 November 2009 12:05]
Fiasco wrote on Tue, 17 November 2009 00:29



Again, my opinion




Hi, no problem, thanks again.
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el duderino

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Re: IMP 23 Discussion Thread
« Reply #34 on: November 17, 2009, 04:16:50 pm »

ok, so here are my thoughts on the mixes.

keep in mind im not trying to offend anyone. if you don't like my mix it's quite possible we have different tastes and i won't like yours. and thats cool. different strokes ya know...anyway here they are.

Music Junky-drums sound very compressed, good guitars. Gtr solo was a bit low and during it I thought the hi gtr on the left was distracting.

Straws- liked the bass, but the mix seemed to lack depth. Gtrs could be brighter. Kick is a bit loud in the verses.

Southbound loco- snare seems out of place to me, same with the kick in the verses. The snare is really loud. Verb kind of muddies things. Bass wasn’t cutting through enough, I thought the  gtr solo was too low, and the ending was a bit weird to me. Toms sound great tho.

Billy Behdaz
- overall bright, lead gtr loud, bass not cutting through enough.

MGT- nice drums, ld gtr loud. Vocals lo end a bit too much. Gtr sounds kinda boxey. Mix could be wider.

OSumosan- highhat is loud, where did the chorus gtrs go? Ld voc has a lot of sibilance. Gtr solo too loud.

Danko-drums up some during distorted guitar parts, esp. chorus. Kick isn’t my thing, seems odd to me in the verses.

Greg Dixon- bit dark compared to others, bass seemed a bit loud to me. The chorus wasn’t poppin enough imo.

Baddo2- bright and kind of brittle sounding, particularly in the verses. I wasn’t feeling the tremolo effect but that’s me.  Gtr solo too loud. Thought the harmonizer on the voc should be ducked in the break.

Rankus- you explained the gtr solo thing, so nevermind that! I think the ld voc in the chorus was too low, other than that the kick and snare just seemed out of place to me.

Jdubdrums- if it were brighter I think it would be a big improvement. The balance seemed pretty good overall tho. Also get rid of some vocal harshness.

Miguel- snare sounds odd and loud to me. Something strange about the drums overall. Like the gtr edit in the verse. The backup vox sound distorted in a bad way to me. Seems muddy in the low mids. Cymbals too low. Vocal was too loud, not really sitting in the mix right.

Icombs- it’s your song and all that but,…. to me the kick was loud and the gtrs sounded scooped. Nice job programming the drums and recording btw.

Dgauss-good punch when chorus comes in. kind of dark and bassy tho, cymbals get lost in the chorus.

Fiasco- gtrs sound thin, where’s the solo? Toms way loud compared to the snare. Kick was too loud in the verses. Had a kind of brittle compressed sound to me.

Mdifazio- weird vocal compression/de-essing going on. Kind of dark too.  The chorus needs more punch. Bass and drums too low. The gtr sound seems kind of phasey to me. What happened to the rhythm gtrs in the 2nd chorus?

Jonahakort- nice fat snare sound. Mix is a bit bass heavy tho. Chorus could pop more. Vocal a bit dark. The gtrs aren’t cutting through/loud enough for me.

Graham- not feeling the delay at the end of the chorus, too fast. Gtr solo could sit better. Bass should be louder. otherwise I’m digging it.

Josh mcardle-that’s some roomy drums! Too much for me tho. The vocal fx as well, way too much. Kick too loud. The chorus’s pop a bit too much, maybe some 2bus compression would even it out or just trim the automation back a bit.

J.Hall- for an hour its pretty damn good. But, the kick seems unnatural to me, the vocal sibilance was a bit much, sounds kind of limted or eq’d a lot in the hi’s. great punch when the chorus hits. The bass had a bit too much sub bass imo. But like I said, for an hour….
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el duderino

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Re: IMP 23 Discussion Thread
« Reply #35 on: November 17, 2009, 04:44:00 pm »

Fiasco wrote on Mon, 16 November 2009 18:29


El duderino - Snare feels separated from rest of the mix, not quite sitting in it. Cymbals on chorus coming from the left, distracts quite a bit. Not bad otherwise.



thanks.

that cymbal bothered me too but ducking it didn't feel right to me so i just went with it.

martthie_08 wrote on Sat, 14 November 2009 17:14


el duderino
sounds nice and open, good balance, pretty wide mix, snare drum might deserve a more hifi verb / cymbals a bit heavy in the chorus.




thanks. duly noted.

Reno wrote on Fri, 13 November 2009 14:14


El duderino

Good work... miss a little punch in the kick but it works. Voclas are a little small





thanks. i agree, the kick got about zero attention. the vocal wasn't cooperating as much as i would have liked but i think it works.

iCombs wrote on Thu, 12 November 2009 18:18


El-duderino – A bit more subdued than the last couple mixes...perhaps even a little low-fi (not in a bad way).  Everything balances nicely through the first verse.  Vocal is placed nicely in the guitars.  Nice explosion into the chorus.  That first downbeat has a lot of pop to it.  Really like that.  It doesn't feel like you used a lot of compression...which means in this case that the dynamics of the song section to section seem to just happen by nature of the arrangement...which, IMO, is a good thing.  The lead vocal could probably stand for a little brightening up or just some more aggression...but then again, I don't know how well that'd play against the guitars...which feel pretty natural.  As a bass player, I'd probably ask for a little more top or honk or aggression, but I think it holds the bottom together well.  No tom hit  before the last chorus...somehow that just robs that section of a little drama for me.  On the whole, though, this is a solid mix.




thanks. i didn't use very much compression imo, but you may think different when i tell you how much there was.

I had a parallel drum bus hit pretty hard, and another parallel bus for the guitars too. backup vox got compressed together, not individually. the vocal had 2 compressors on it and the bass had one as well.

and there was a compressor on the 2bus.


automation definitely helped it pop a bit more.


in case anyone is interested, im using a digi 002r with apogee rosetta 800 converters going into a dangerous 2bus lt. the mix bus got an ART Pro-VLA, the vocal and bass each got a FMR PBC-6A.
all the EQ was the URS A series plug-in. all the other compression was the digi 1176 plug-in.

mixed using dynaudio bm-5a's and yamaha ns-10's.
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fiasco ( P.M.DuMont )

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Re: IMP 23 Discussion Thread
« Reply #36 on: November 17, 2009, 06:41:53 pm »

el duderino wrote on Tue, 17 November 2009 16:16


Fiasco- gtrs sound thin, where’s the solo? Toms way loud compared to the snare. Kick was too loud in the verses. Had a kind of brittle compressed sound to me.



Thanks.

I will agree with everything, but I'm not sure I used too much compression, I think the mix is just thin in general.
The snare was giving me fits. Something about it, so I replaced it. Imagine that! Still didn't work as far as I'm concerned.

I got so tired of Ian and his 257 guitar tracks I just plain missed the solo. Oh well, I liked the "theme" thing going on at the same time anyway.

Kidding about the guitar tracks.

Thanks again.
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Philip

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Re: IMP 23 Discussion Thread
« Reply #37 on: November 24, 2009, 12:44:17 am »

This IMP thing is a great idea...I've listened to the mixes and you guys do great work! Cool

It is useful to me to have multitracks to experiment with new gear/techniques on without having a client relationship to fret over. Speaking of which, I see the older RARs aren't on the server anymore. Any chance they can be made available again?

Anywhere else decent multitracks are available to play with?

Thanks!
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Peter Jensen
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Re: IMP 23 Discussion Thread
« Reply #38 on: November 24, 2009, 02:11:16 pm »

spicemix wrote on Mon, 23 November 2009 23:44

This IMP thing is a great idea...I've listened to the mixes and you guys do great work! Cool

It is useful to me to have multitracks to experiment with new gear/techniques on without having a client relationship to fret over. Speaking of which, I see the older RARs aren't on the server anymore. Any chance they can be made available again?

Anywhere else decent multitracks are available to play with?

Thanks!


i pull the RARs down at the end of each IMP for exactly this reason.  it's not really fair to the bands to have their masters floating around god knows where for something other then what i've asked of them.
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spicemix

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Re: IMP 23 Discussion Thread
« Reply #39 on: November 28, 2009, 11:25:51 pm »

Not sure how the downside exceeds either the initial downside or the eventual upside. Having people in the industry massaging these tracks can't be a bad thing even if they make mockeries of them. Any press is good press when you are the level of act that would provide for one of these IMO.

Thanks for arranging these jhall.  Smile
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Peter Jensen
spicemix

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Re: IMP 23 Discussion Thread
« Reply #40 on: November 29, 2009, 12:28:25 pm »

i'm just trying to be as respectful as i can.  we've also had some problems in the past.
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iCombs

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Re: IMP 23 Discussion Thread
« Reply #41 on: November 29, 2009, 12:34:09 pm »

Sorry about my delay in getting to page 2, guys...I'm working on it now and will have new crits up shortly.
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Ian Combs
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Re: IMP 23 Discussion Thread
« Reply #42 on: December 18, 2009, 01:46:42 am »

HOKAAAY....been a long month for me and I apologize...but since this was my song, I feel like I really owe it to everyone to critique the mixes...so...with fresh ears and a new drive to do this right...

PAGE 2!!!

mafigi – Tightest intro edit yet!  No chugga-chuggas!  The mix feels hypey, but not in a painful way.  The bass feels really big and mean sounding...but that's partly set up by the snare drum feeling like it's kinda small and in the back.  Would like to feel a little more of the punch and body of that in the mix...there's room for it in this mix, I promise.  The vocals in the first half of the first verse get a little lost when they get quiet...could probably use a volume ride there.  The second chorus really doesn't feel like it's an explosion...partly due to the arrangement...but a little volume differential would help that out quite a bit.  Dry solo!  Nice.  Delivers the punchy nature of that tone well.  Toms feel really big throughout...maybe a LITTLE on the snappy/hyped side when compared to the kick and snare, but solid nonetheless.

D Gauss – Not bad for a lunchbreak!  That snare really has a SPANK to it.  Only way I can describe it.  Dry and punchy, but not in a bad way.  The kick's got a lot of woof...perhaps a distracting amount.  The single note guitar line seems like it's a bit forward compared to the rhythm guitars.  The mix feels like it preserves a lot of the dynamics of the song as played/programmed...which is a nice thing, IMO.  Would be cool to hear this mix kinda expanded on.  It seems like the fundamental aspects of it are solid, but, like you said, it's a lunchbreak mix.  There's part of me that digs that aesthetic, though...just like...first impressions...raw...kinda unadulterated.  The balances overall feel pretty solid, though.  Maybe a LITTLE more main rhythm guitar.  Sell the size of the choruses a little more.  Not a bad place to start a mix from.  Like I said...would be cool to hear where that mix goes.

mdifazio – The first thing that strikes me is the panning.  Nothing feels like it's happening on the sides with any sort of strength.  There's some real weirdness happening with the lead vocal...like a de-esser's gone haywire or something.  The top keeps coming and going.
 The rhythm guitar that's about halfway between center and right doesn't sound too bad, but it's kinda by itself over there.  Woah...the chorus without much rhythm guitar...man...I'm not sure what to think of that...like I said...the imbalance in terms of panning leaves me feeling a little cold.  I'd be really interested as to your thoughts about panning and arrangement of this based on the tracks that you had.

Fiasco – totally raw intro!  Attaboy!  Fuck 'em!  Leave it for the mastering guy.  Love the mids on the guitars in the intro...just kinda brash and ballsy and old school.  Again here, the snare feels thin.  Woah top end on the backing vox vs. the kinda telephoned out lead vox!  That doesn't congeal those voices for me.  I get the need for some separation, but that might be a bit much.  Drums sound solid aside from my earlier snare comment.  Toms especially sound big, but would like to hear a little more spread from them.  No second vocal line in the second chorus?  Just the straight harmony?  Why'd you pick that as your second vocal priority?  I”m genuinely curious.  I loved the interplay of the other vocal line against the lead vocal, but I could see where someone could be led to make a different decision there...what was your rationale?

Jonah A. Kort – WOW woof on the bottom of that kick.  The clean guitar coming up the middle in the first verse feels like it's kinda stepping on the vocal...like the vocal level vs. the bass and drums is good, but the guitar is clouding things up.  Like the  spectrum of the guitars in the chorus, but again here, the single note line is up a little loud for my tastes...would like to hear more of the chord rhythm guitar filling up the sides.  Drums feel good and clean...snare has a “pop” to it that I like.  Dry solo again...or at least fairly dry...I like that okay.  The sub drops are a nice touch.  The first one felt like a bit much, but the second one on the tom hit was sweet.  Made that punch nicely.  The delay vocal in the last chorus felt a little bit out on its own.  Good spectral use overall.

That's what I got im me for tonight...I'm going to get some shuteye and get this stuff finished up tomorrow!  LAST COUPLE!!!
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Ian Combs
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fiasco ( P.M.DuMont )

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Re: IMP 23 Discussion Thread
« Reply #43 on: December 18, 2009, 05:38:03 pm »

iCombs wrote on Fri, 18 December 2009 01:46


Fiasco – totally raw intro!  Attaboy!  Fuck 'em!  Leave it for the mastering guy.  Love the mids on the guitars in the intro...just kinda brash and ballsy and old school.  Again here, the snare feels thin.  Woah top end on the backing vox vs. the kinda telephoned out lead vox!  That doesn't congeal those voices for me.  I get the need for some separation, but that might be a bit much.  Drums sound solid aside from my earlier snare comment.  Toms especially sound big, but would like to hear a little more spread from them.  No second vocal line in the second chorus?  Just the straight harmony?  Why'd you pick that as your second vocal priority?  I”m genuinely curious.  I loved the interplay of the other vocal line against the lead vocal, but I could see where someone could be led to make a different decision there...what was your rationale?



Thanks for listening Ian, and thanks for offering the tracks.

Man that snare was giving me fits, and no trickery was blowin' my skirt up.
Don't know why though... preference, I suppose.

To be honest, I don't know which second vocal line you are referring to.
I opened up the project (yeesh, what was I thinking) and I see the VOX and VOX double but no counterpoint track. Did I miss something?
I did downplay the double, though.
Perhaps my "Producer" hat slipped down over my ears!

Either way, with this tune I envisioned organic rock,
and with the track count it was challenging to include everything and still present an idea of a band performance.

Good tune, good singing, good fun. Thanks again.
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