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[,,deda,, Tim Porter]

 Been researching summing box's and ran across this. It's German made so maybe some one from the European membership has seen and hopefully heard what this piece of gear sounds like and it's build.

It damn sure looks well done, typical summing functions but also with direct outs. The maker dwells on the Neumann connection of which there may be none.

I know little when it comes to specs so any info on what is hyped nicely, Haufe Trannys and something to do with Neumann. As stated it looks like a quality build but looks don't mean squat.

"Like Whipped Cream On S**T, It Looks Good But You Can't Eat It"

Here's a brief description:
"This is a custom made Velvet Audio SA-24 Vintage line mixer. It is based on a Neumann dual summing amp with floating balanced inputs & outputs. The level and pan controls are realized by a passive circuit so the Neumann Vintage sound is not altered by modern electronics.
The sound is very natural but also warm and full which is probably caused by the high quality Haufe transformers.

The gain controls are working as a pad. The master volumen enables a maximum gain of +10dB. Pan pots have a center click and each channel can be muted.
An additional feature is a stereo buss input. You can cascade up 4 units with it to reach a total of 96 channels while only the master unit includes the Neumann board. The slave units will be cheaper. Feel free to ask if you are interested in a 48, 72 or 96 channel solution.
The SA-24 is running with an external power supply. It works from 100V to 240V main voltage.

This unit can be used for analog summing / mixing or just to give signals a warm analog color."

Any information on this unit would be appreciated and Picture follows.

Regards ,,deda,,

[Andres Gonzalez]

I was interested until I saw it used an external power supply. That means that it has some active electronics, i.e., not entirely passive.

I think the Folcrom did it right in that they intend that one uses an external amp to supply gain because of the loss due to summing passively. That way one can at least pick what amp to use.

It does look cool, what do these guys cost?

-Andres

[compasspnt]

$2K.

[,,deda,, Tim Porter]

Andres Gonzalez wrote on Thu, 05 November 2009 17:20

I was interested until I saw it used an external power supply. That means that it has some active electronics, i.e., not entirely passive. I think the Folcrom did it right in that they intend that one uses an external amp to supply gain because of the loss due to summing passively. That way one can at least pick what amp to use. It does look cool, what do these guys cost? -Andres

As stated I've been doing a lot of research from forums to vendors and the manufactures. This piece was an eBay find and compasspnt is right $1,999.00 plus $120.00 shipping from Germany.

BUT after all of the box's from $750.00 to $6,000.00 I have a favorite by a long shot, the Folcrom. It was the 1st recommended to me by Fletcher and now I've looked at my last one.

I've 32 vintage and high end pres, 50/50 tube to discrete and 14 pairs, that all would be bitchin on the Folcrom 2Buss, hell I'm ready to get one and start the fun.

Thanks for your input and advice, it's sound, regards ,,deda,,

[Andres Gonzalez]

Another thing I think Folcrom did right is their use of db25 connectors instead of multiple XLRs. Just look at the size of that SA-24 just because they need the space for all of the XLR connectors.

I still think that db25s are a real BIG PAIN, but they are a cost effective solution--much much cheaper than multiple XLRs.

I usually wire up my racks with point-to-point, shrink-wrapped, etc, custom cable. So for me, the db25s make since, even though it takes time to integrate db25-equipped gear into my system. When you look in the back of all of my racks there are tons of connectors--I have spent literally hundreds of $ on connectors alone. The db25s seems to minimize the number of connectors a bit--at least enough for me to put up with the pain of dealing with them.

-Andres

[,,deda,, Tim Porter]

compasspnt wrote on Fri, 06 November 2009 00:49

$2K.

If you don't mind if I ask, what is your opinion of the SA-24?

Regards ,,deda,,

[compasspnt]

I have not heard it myself, but prima facie, I really like the unit.

Also, I prefer xlr's but I  understand the cost effectiveness of the db25s.

[Fletcher]

Andres Gonzalez wrote on Thu, 05 November 2009 18:20

I was interested until I saw it used an external power supply. That means that it has some active electronics, i.e., not entirely passive.

Well it is kinda traditional to have internal amplifiers in a summing box... consoles have had them for years.  The Folcrom thing is rather cool is you have external mic pre-amps as you already have an extra set of amplifiers hanging around so you don't have to pay for yet another set... but many external summing mixers have great sounding internal amplifiers.

An external power supply is actually the best way to go from an audio perspective... which is actually a positive indicator from my perspective.

Peace.

[Andres Gonzalez]

Fletcher wrote on Tue, 10 November 2009 07:46

Well it is kinda traditional to have internal amplifiers in a summing box... consoles have had them for years.

Then the question is how much does the internal summing amplifier effect the overall sound of the mix?

I have some Neve 1272 pres, API 312 pres, the older Great River pres (the white faced one before the current MP-2NV). So I am wondering how much of a difference there would be to using these pres with a pure passive box like the Folcrom.

-Andres

[Andres Gonzalez]

Fletcher wrote on Tue, 10 November 2009 07:46

An external power supply is actually the best way to go from an audio perspective... which is actually a positive indicator from my perspective.

I agree that, from an audio perspective, external power supplies are better for isolation, etc.  However, all external power supplies and wall warts, etc, are a royal pain to deal with. For a regular studio I can see that it is no big deal, just set it up and leave it. But my gear is all in portable racks with wheels and I do mostly remote location stuff--so portability becomes a big issue.

I have told myself many times that I will never again buy gear that has external power supplies. But, I find that I still keep breaking my own rule because all my Neve/API racks use external power supplies. So much for rules I guess...

-Andres

[Ultreen MIDI Labs]

I bought a prototype 36X2 single rack space summing amp from this guy . He said it was one of the prototypes . With much deliberation I placed the order . The deal went without a hitch , and the unit . OMFG !!!! I could not be happier . The sound and depth of field and absolutely incredible . This one piece of gear took my recordings to the next level . I had been lusting after the Dangerous box for some time . Looking back I am so glad I took a gamble and bought this . This is coming from someone with an all analog signal path to start with ( some instruments digital ). I don`t like the way computers sound and only record into mine 2tk stereo master mixes . No processing in the box . Granted MIDI instruments make this possible in the first place . And I have to sample the vocals (24/96k) , but I feel good knowing that there is only one  A/D conversion between my Jupiter 8 and my ears .