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Author Topic: interesting article  (Read 8422 times)

j.hall

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interesting article
« on: October 22, 2009, 05:06:01 PM »

worth a read.

 http://wizkidsound.com/blog/2009/08/music-production-10-year s-from-now-part-1/

so forget years of experience, you too can crank out "top level" mixes in an untreated acoustic space with just a DAW, that might even be cloud based.
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abtech

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Re: interesting article
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2009, 06:22:20 PM »

It goes right along with multitracking on your iPhone.  Anyone with a few minutes to spare can create "master quality" recordings for a few hundred dollars.  Damn, why did I waste all of the time and money over the past 40 years?
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and your girlfriend too . . .

grantis

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Re: interesting article
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2009, 12:15:10 PM »

This kind of crap kinda irritates me.  

I read another article that said you could achieve "Professional quality guitar tones" with a USB guitar cable, that had built in guitar/amp models.

The writer was especially careful to warn the reader that these cables were VERY expensive at $100.

You get what you pay for.  Period.  I learned a valuable lesson when i was once told "stop buying cheap crap.  buy the good stuff ONCE".
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Grant Craig
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j.hall

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Re: interesting article
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2009, 12:36:43 PM »

i just love the room treatment part.

YUP

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SingSing

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Re: interesting article
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2009, 09:01:45 AM »

I agree he's making things a bit too easy for himself, especially when it comes to acoustic music. But for the producers and writers that are already 100% ITB, things will probably only get better.

However, one feature that I'd love to see in the near future is the possibility to easily collaborate live over the net. To build networks of session players within different genres. See who's online and get an overdub on the fly. In case you crave for that cowbell...


Cheers,

Stefan
SingSing
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meverylame

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Re: interesting article
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2009, 09:47:46 PM »

HAHAHAHA!!! This is kind of awesome. I posted that on a forum somewhere (maybe here?). Its a blog from from another studio here in town. I actually know the guys, went to one of the owners keg party for his birthday. Nice guys. Doesn't mean that that article isn't totally absurd.  
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Jason Kingsland

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grantis

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Re: interesting article
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2009, 02:32:12 AM »

meverylame wrote on Sat, 24 October 2009 20:47

HAHAHAHA!!! This is kind of awesome. I posted that on a forum somewhere (maybe here?). Its a blog from from another studio here in town. I actually know the guys, went to one of the owners keg party for his birthday. Nice guys. Doesn't mean that that article isn't totally absurd.  


I'm curious to know if that studio is, in fact, comprised solely of several untreated rooms.
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Grant Craig
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meverylame

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Re: interesting article
« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2009, 12:51:16 PM »

grantis wrote on Sun, 25 October 2009 02:32

meverylame wrote on Sat, 24 October 2009 20:47

HAHAHAHA!!! This is kind of awesome. I posted that on a forum somewhere (maybe here?). Its a blog from from another studio here in town. I actually know the guys, went to one of the owners keg party for his birthday. Nice guys. Doesn't mean that that article isn't totally absurd.  


I'm curious to know if that studio is, in fact, comprised solely of several untreated rooms.

They're treated if you call auralex treatment.
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Jason Kingsland

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John Suitcase

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Re: interesting article
« Reply #8 on: December 27, 2009, 04:56:12 PM »

Maybe I'm stupid, but I didn't see it as that terribly funny, or that far off from reality.

I recently made a point about this on another forum. If a musician is happy with or going for a commercial sound, it's becoming easier and easier to do it at home.

Acoustics aren't that important, if you're using a Roland V-drum with one of the many drum midi drum plug-ins out there. electric guitars can be recorded with 'professional quality' using a USB cable and some emulation plug-in. Hell, a lot of stuff done in truly professional facilities is ultimately DI guitar, reamped using Ampfarm or whatever.

Vocals can be recorded using lots of decent mics with a good preamp, though I don't think a small acoustically dead space is a good idea. But there are lots of pro facilities that have essentially that for a vocal booth.

The reality is that if you're after 'radio-quality' recordings, you can get that on your computer right now.

On the other hand, if you're trying to craft something unique and with some depth, a great engineer and high quality gear is paramount. An acoustically treated space is truly optional in my opinion, of course, I would say that, being that location recording is my whole gig!

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Roadster

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Re: interesting article
« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2009, 10:15:12 AM »

It doesn't matter. The listeners were dumbed down years ago.
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Rich
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pimpfresh

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Re: interesting article
« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2010, 12:26:43 PM »

I wrote the aforementioned article, and I'm glad to see it discussed (however superficially) on this forum. First, to clear up a few things:

I'm not suggesting that technology is a replacement for experience. Technology has certainly increased access to professional recording tools, but it does not automatically make a good engineer or recording. I know I still have a ways to go in this regard. I do however believe that if the purists refuse to learn or grow with the fast emerging trends, they will get left behind, or at least be relegated to a niche market.

Acoustic treatment is paramount for live recorded sources (i.e. vocals, instruments). I'm a huge proponent of using high quality instruments in a well treated room with the best micing chain possible. My assertion is that live recording of instruments will become less and less important in future. It will be replaced by sampled instruments (a wide variety of the very best instruments, best studios, and micing combinations), amp simulators, and synths. This is not a statement on what I prefer, it is a fact. You can bitch and complain about this development, and continue to spend the added time and pay the high price of live recording, but it will not change the fact that it is happening.

Part one of this article may irritate people, but the main point of this blog is actually located in part 2:

http://wizkidsound.com/blog/2009/08/music-production-10-year s-from-now-part-2/

Here I makes some not so obvious predictions about the future of recording, particularly in regards to cloud based DAWs. And remember, I'm talking about 10 years in the future, though I suspect some of this evolution will take place sooner.

I'd love to hear you guy's thoughts on this....



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j.hall

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Re: interesting article
« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2010, 01:38:20 PM »

so, are you implying that the control (main listening and monitoring environment) does not need to be acoustically treated?

also, while i agree that sampled sounds will be used more and more, i simply disagree that live instruments will EVER become obsolete.  i can't imagine a day when a sample library can sound anywhere close to a high gain guitar amp with a real person playing a les paul through it.

that doesn't even scratch the surface of the vocalist......
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grantis

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Re: interesting article
« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2010, 02:00:50 PM »

How about those dern guitar players who love ol' Bessie that they've been playing for 20 years.  They're gonna play her, and she's gonna sound better than an acoustic guitar simulator.

The evolution you're talking about will require an entire generation of people who have never played through a real guitar amp, or never played a real drum kit.  THEN, folks won't know any better.

+1 on the control room treatment.  Can't mix if you can't hear.
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Grant Craig
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bblackwood

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Re: interesting article
« Reply #13 on: January 06, 2010, 02:13:53 PM »

20 years ago people were in a panic that samples were going to replace live folks with real instruments...

Same crap, different day.
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Brad Blackwood
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grantis

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Re: interesting article
« Reply #14 on: January 06, 2010, 02:19:32 PM »

PS:

pimpfresh's real name is Daniel Gardner, in case anybody was wondering.
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Grant Craig
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pete andrews

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Re: interesting article
« Reply #15 on: January 06, 2010, 04:10:00 PM »

Quote:

My assertion is that live recording of instruments will become less and less important in future. It will be replaced by sampled instruments (a wide variety of the very best instruments, best studios, and micing combinations), amp simulators, and synths.


i bet this will not turn out to be the case.
just a hunch.

-pete

wwittman

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Re: interesting article
« Reply #16 on: January 06, 2010, 10:50:03 PM »

pimpfresh wrote on Wed, 06 January 2010 12:26

 I do however believe that if the purists refuse to learn or grow with the fast emerging trends, they will get left behind, or at least be relegated to a niche market.





as opposed to the HUGE sales enjoyed by DIY hobbyists
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William Wittman
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(Cyndi Lauper, Joan Osborne, The Fixx, The Outfield, Hooters...)

Gabriel F

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Re: interesting article
« Reply #17 on: January 07, 2010, 12:23:41 AM »

To me it sounds like a justification for not having access to a  great studio. Just fooling ourselves believing that you can create in a 5 thousand dollar home studio records as good as those recorded in proper studios, with a capable enginner and producer.

I have a project studio, and the awful truth is that i wont ever record something even close in quality to a frank sinatra record, henry mancini scores, pink floyd, RATM, Motown, etc. No matters how good i become. It aint gonna happen. And i havent seen someone made it happen.

What will happen if your predictions are wrong and in 10 years kids become tired of sampled and computer based music and go back to the roots? who will be in demand? an enginner who never miked a drum? or an enginner who did it hundreds of times and can learn in a couple of days to use autotune, melodyne, BD, vocalign and whatever new production tehcnique becomes popular?

Where are most of those 80s enginners who just nailed that particular sound right now?
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NelsonL

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Re: interesting article
« Reply #18 on: January 07, 2010, 01:20:45 AM »

I have a friend/client whose going to be on Letterman Friday night-- that's not really relevant, but I'm proud of him.

To some extent, that trajectory starts with an EP we recorded (partly) in my living room.

With every release since then, he's sought out professional studios (including one that I worked at) and more and more established producers-- I would contend that many if not most artists will seek out real studios when they have some success or financing, even if they have some success in home studios.

Part of this is because it's natural to be curious about these places where so many of our favorite records are made, e.g. not a bedroom.

Lastly, although we tracked several songs on that EP in my rather nice sounding former apartment (very high ceilings, hardwood floors) we mixed in a Bob Hodas tuned control room, which made such a huge difference in the final product as compared to my roughs.

I think you can do a lot with humble gear, but on the other hand, I don't foresee vintage 1073 prices coming down anytime soon.
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Greg Dixon

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Re: interesting article
« Reply #19 on: January 07, 2010, 03:02:39 AM »

pete andrews wrote on Thu, 07 January 2010 08:10

Quote:

My assertion is that live recording of instruments will become less and less important in future. It will be replaced by sampled instruments (a wide variety of the very best instruments, best studios, and micing combinations), amp simulators, and synths.


i bet this will not turn out to be the case.
just a hunch.

-pete


Actually, I think he's right to a large extent. I've been saying for a while now, that it's never been easier to make a 'good' sounding recording, but there are less and less 'great' records being made. Yes you can make a 'professional' sounding recording with samples/virtual instruments/amp simulators etc. and people are doing that. It's very rare that the outcome is truly great though.

I was mixing 3 songs (that I didn't track) last week. All recorded in a good studio, using real players on good instruments and even a choir for some vocal pad parts. The only exception was a Hammond part played with a decent emulation. As we were finishing the mixes I got the client to play my Hammond/Leslie. The look of excitement, at the revelation he was experiencing, playing the real thing, is just one of the reasons why emulations will never completely replace the movement of air captured by quality mics, in a good room.
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bblackwood

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Re: interesting article
« Reply #20 on: January 07, 2010, 10:07:25 AM »

wwittman wrote on Wed, 06 January 2010 21:50

as opposed to the HUGE sales enjoyed by DIY hobbyists

This.

Love to see an example of a DIY record that's even been certified gold...
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Brad Blackwood
euphonic masters

grantis

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Re: interesting article
« Reply #21 on: January 07, 2010, 10:40:17 AM »

bblackwood wrote on Thu, 07 January 2010 09:07

wwittman wrote on Wed, 06 January 2010 21:50

as opposed to the HUGE sales enjoyed by DIY hobbyists

This.

Love to see an example of a DIY record that's even been certified gold...


Nah man.  Success is all in the head.  If it sounds good to ME, then it's a hit.
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Grant Craig
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Podgorny

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Re: interesting article
« Reply #22 on: January 07, 2010, 12:07:08 PM »

bblackwood wrote on Thu, 07 January 2010 09:07

Love to see an example of a DIY record that's even been certified gold...




I'd be happy to see any decent record sell gold nowadays.


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"Nobody cares what the impedance is; all they care about is when you can walk into the room, set up a mic, turn the knobs, hit record, and make everybody go 'wow.'"

Gabriel F

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Re: interesting article
« Reply #23 on: January 07, 2010, 12:26:41 PM »

I'd be happy to see people hearing the difference between a decent record and a great one.
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j.hall

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Re: interesting article
« Reply #24 on: January 08, 2010, 02:07:37 PM »

Podgorny wrote on Thu, 07 January 2010 11:07

bblackwood wrote on Thu, 07 January 2010 09:07

Love to see an example of a DIY record that's even been certified gold...




I'd be happy to see any decent record sell gold nowadays.





indeed!
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