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Author Topic: Vintage Mic Value Registry: Good Idea?  (Read 18208 times)

Klaus Heyne

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Vintage Mic Value Registry: Good Idea?
« on: October 08, 2009, 05:26:55 PM »

I have gotten some flak for deleting prices of vintage mics here. I deleted them in the past because:

1. prices mentioned here are sometimes used to augment sellers' claims as to what they think their mic is worth, citing this forum as 'authoritative' on such matters, despite he fact that

2. prices mentioned here rarely were linked to verifiable information, like: documented, actual sale price, in difference to asking price, or hear-say sale price without showing proof, condition of system, state of originality, etc.

With other words, lots of unreliable, unsupported talk and little if any verifiable follow-up to confirm these prices were truly obtained for mics in a precisely defined state.

I am also aware that the Mic Lab has a great opportunity to provide exactly what is missing so far from the scene: a place where buyers and seller can obtain some level of average value for vintage mics, as determined by the actual sale prices of actual mics in specific conditions.  

I am contemplating launching Klaus Heyne's Vintage Mic Registry as a Sticky, as soon as I have gotten some input from you what it would take to make it authoritative, so that owners, buyers, and sellers would use it with confidence in helping them assess a realistic value of their mics, as defined by prices someone actually paid for them at a given time.

Here is how it might work:
If someone comes across a sale of, say, an M49, he would need to post the following information if he wanted it included in the registry:

1. Specific model and year, including all accessories (e.g. 'Neumann gray wooden  
    box, original bayonet swivel mount...')
2. Functional condition ('works, but is noisy...')
3. Cosmetic condition ('embossed radio station on back of housing...')
4. State of originality ('capsule, tube, cable, power supply, circuit, etc.')
5. Sales price with proof (either eBay auction result, jpg of sales receipt,
    or other tangible proof rather than a claim)
6. Date of sale

Please chime in what you think of these items, or what else we would need to include so that you would feel comfortable using the registry.

Thanks,
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Klaus Heyne
German Masterworks
www.GermanMasterworks.com

jpaul_bordon

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Re: Vintage Mic Value Registry Coming Soon...!
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2009, 05:35:16 PM »

#6  I think a recent purchase should have  verifiability of price, But I did not keep the Ebay receipt from 8 years ago for my U48.  How do we deal with that?
One Single picture? Keep down the clutter? Serial# posted?
Great IDEA BTW!
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Klaus Heyne

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Re: Vintage Mic Value Registry Coming Soon...!
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2009, 05:42:15 PM »

Obliterate digits of the serial number, to protect privacy (e.g. "U47 ser. #23xx")

Yes, ONE representative picture to support the claims.

eBay receipts of 8 years ago would probably be of little use, because chances are that the price for a vintage  mic is not the same today. The more up-to-date, the more valuable the information.
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Klaus Heyne
German Masterworks
www.GermanMasterworks.com

Barry Hufker

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Re: Vintage Mic Value Registry Coming Soon...!
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2009, 05:42:17 PM »

Klaus,

I'd think this idea through one more time.  Do you really want to spend time being the "price police"?

Barry


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Klaus Heyne

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Re: Vintage Mic Value Registry Coming Soon...!
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2009, 05:44:15 PM »

Tell me more: How would I be the price police? I would just police adherence to the rules of posting, as laid down and hopefully agreed upon my most here.
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Klaus Heyne
German Masterworks
www.GermanMasterworks.com

Barry Hufker

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Re: Vintage Mic Value Registry Coming Soon...!
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2009, 06:33:30 PM »

That's what I mean.  Do you really want to spend time making sure everyone has provided the proper information in the proper way and has provided sufficient documentation of purchase price?  Boy if I were you I could think of a million better ways to spend my time...

Barry

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J.J. Blair

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Re: Vintage Mic Value Registry Coming Soon...!
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2009, 06:48:58 PM »

Klaus, I think this is a great idea.  

I suggest that it would be better for you to list these things, because there's no way for us to do it anonymously.  I don't necessarily want people to know that perhaps I overpaid on one mic, or that perhaps I got a steal on another, even though I think those sales are good to have in the database.  If we could supply you with the verifiable info, and you make the post, I think people would be more forthcoming with the information.  

Bottom line, there's going to be no easy way to do this, and unless you have a co-moderator on that, it's going to be a lot of work.  

Excuse me for thinking out loud here, but one way you could do a co-moderator, would be to do it as a separate forum, with a single topic, and you and somebody else have mod privileges, and can help with the work load.  I'm already a mod on PSW, and would be willing to help run the database.  

So, whoever the mod is could do a post with a pic of the mic, serial number, condition, sale price, geographic location of seller, and then list if it's a private sale, from a dealer, or an eBay sale.  

Also, if there's a trusted source, like David knowing about that U47 that he inspected, and he can verify that the final price was $X, that should be able to be reported.

There will be plenty of pitfalls, but I think it could be done.
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John Monforte

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Re: Vintage Mic Value Registry Coming Soon...!
« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2009, 11:35:59 PM »

I would find more useful a registry of mics and serial numbers that can identify owners of mics. That way if one gets stolen and put into the marketplace, a potential buyer could identify it and verify its provenance.

Gotham Audio used to do this for the Neumanns it sold. It helped many owners get their mics back.

I will admit that any such registry would be only as good as the degree of its accuracy and completeness. Also, there would be a need for a seller to verify personal identity and record the transfer. Problems for sure, but not insurmountable.

It would be fun to trace back the ownership of a mic and see its history.

Does anyone know of any examples of similar registries? Surely there must be something in other areas such as musical instruments, art, jewlery or something like that.
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Mike O

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Re: Vintage Mic Value Registry Coming Soon...!
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2009, 09:02:38 AM »

J.J. Blair wrote on Thu, 08 October 2009 23:48

Klaus, I think this is a great idea.  

I suggest that it would be better for you to list these things, because there's no way for us to do it anonymously.  I don't necessarily want people to know that perhaps I overpaid on one mic, or that perhaps I got a steal on another, even though I think those sales are good to have in the database.  If we could supply you with the verifiable info, and you make the post, I think people would be more forthcoming with the information.  

Bottom line, there's going to be no easy way to do this, and unless you have a co-moderator on that, it's going to be a lot of work.  

Excuse me for thinking out loud here, but one way you could do a co-moderator, would be to do it as a separate forum, with a single topic, and you and somebody else have mod privileges, and can help with the work load.  I'm already a mod on PSW, and would be willing to help run the database.  

So, whoever the mod is could do a post with a pic of the mic, serial number, condition, sale price, geographic location of seller, and then list if it's a private sale, from a dealer, or an eBay sale.  

Also, if there's a trusted source, like David knowing about that U47 that he inspected, and he can verify that the final price was $X, that should be able to be reported.

There will be plenty of pitfalls, but I think it could be done.


Also thinking out loud here....

It would seem that your (I believe sincere and generous) proposal to help Klaus mod would give you access to the very information that you do not want others to know about your purchases. Judging by your posts you are a pretty active trader and therefore your participation as mod would probably not encourage people to register.

Just a thought.....
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J.J. Blair

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Re: Vintage Mic Value Registry Coming Soon...!
« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2009, 01:23:14 AM »

Nope.  Not an active trader.  Is there even such a thing as a mic trader?  I'm a collector.  Trading would imply that I buy and sell, which I don't do.  
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They say the heart of Rock & Roll is still beating, which is amazing if you consider all the blow it's done over the years.

"The Internet enables pompous blowhards to interact with other pompous blowhards in a big circle jerk of pomposity." - Bill Maher

"The negative aspects of this business, not only will continue to prevail, but will continue to accelerate in madness. Conditions aren't going to get better, because the economics of rock and roll are getting closer and closer to the economics of Big Business America." - Bill Graham

seedyunderbelly.com

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Re: Vintage Mic Value Registry Coming Soon...!
« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2009, 10:50:35 PM »

Sorry but this is silly/illogical on several levels.

Edit:

First,  there is no premise to Question JJ's ethics,  Second,   if he was involved in publishing "prices" he would be affected by the supposedly altered "rules" as would anyone- IN THE SAME WAY -The notion that he could or would effectively manipulate such a market for his own devices is cute at best..
Third,  He is not a seller even.....

j

ps-  I know him and would trust him with far greater concerns-

burp182

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Re: Vintage Mic Value Registry Coming Soon...!
« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2009, 03:25:52 PM »

What he said.
I've known him for about 14 years. No ulterior motives, no BS.
I'd trust him with my wife. And I have issues. BIG issues.
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Mike O

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Re: Vintage Mic Value Registry Coming Soon...!
« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2009, 11:43:08 PM »

My sincere apologies to JJ. I did NOT intend for my post to read as questioning JJ's motives or ethics.

I was simply pointing out that JJ serving as receiver of the info gives him the same information he does not want others to have re: his purchases. That is ALL. In regards to me referencing JJ as an "active trader" I recalled a Blue 47 and it seemed (at that particular moment) a couple of other mics sold. Most collectors (of anything) 'trade up' as they find better specimens. But I realize now JJ is an exception. Again, my very sincere apologies.

JJ probably does not know it (or remember), but he has selflessly provided me high value information apart from his posts this forum. He saved me quite a bit of $ and it was much appreciated.

Providers of information to the registery will of course be able to decide for themselves if they want JJ (or whomever) to know what they paid. And no, I don't have a better solution. I had hoped someone would think of an alternative, but it now seems to me that if the registery is going to be anonymous with regard to seller, SOMEONE knowledgeable will have to serve as the 'clearing house'.

I see no reason it should not be JJ; who shares an obvious passion for microphones.

Sorry for the confusion...
Mike

P.S. If I received post alerts I would have replied sooner to stop the 'nonsense'.
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Eric H.

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Re: Vintage Mic Value Registry Coming Soon...!
« Reply #13 on: August 11, 2010, 08:16:09 AM »

I was looking for another information in the forum and found this thread.
Was this mic price database project dropped? I believe it would be a good thing in general.
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eric harizanos

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Re: Vintage Mic Value Registry Coming Soon...!
« Reply #14 on: August 11, 2010, 09:33:08 AM »

Price ?
It would be great to have a database with serials and something like a unique code, but it must be standardized using a public authority. Like chips for bikes etc. I have a private effort to sign my mics but the problem is how a code can be applied in the body, so that no one can rip it off. Nevertheless it must be a database that cannot be public viewed. (Only members).It also must be financed. Perhaps some parameters of the mic (height,weight etc.) can be used to generate a unique code, since the mics never have exactly the same specific weight.Like radiomuseum but with coding. Only suggestions but something to think over.

.
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Franz Skale
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