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Author Topic: IMP22 Discussion  (Read 8930 times)

Josh McArdle

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Re: IMP22 Discussion
« Reply #30 on: August 30, 2009, 01:26:09 pm »

Had some major problems uploading and now I find I have 3 versions of the same thing up! Sorry guys. Please refer only to the one called "Josh_McArdle" or whatever it is and ignore PSW and blacklight_uk. Is there any way I can delete those?

Thanks to everyone who commented. I've taken notes and I'll be going back over the mix tonight just to try out a few of your suggestions. This is the first one of these I've done and it's so interesting hearing everyones take on the song. H20 what in particular would you say is wrong with the snare and what would you recommend to fix it? Hoping to learn a few things here as I'm not too hot on drum mixing yet.

OK, my comments.

Antman

Like the drum sound. Nice punchy snare. Guitars are a little low-mid heavy and vocals could do with roughing up a little. Overall it sounded a little "blunt" to me but nothing a good ME couldn't fix.

Reno

Nice intro. Like the kick - is this a sample? Snare could cut more I think. Guitars a bit muddy, could do with high pass filtering to open the mix up a little more.

Osumosan

Nice, open drum sound. De-essor is overdone, she's lisping, but otherwise hard to fault.

Rankus

Wide open sound, loved it. Would like to hear a little ear candy though!

Jason

A little confusing and cluttered to my ears. The kick is nice and tight and I loved the delay on the vocals in the verses, very cool! Not too sure about the vocal break but top marks for originality.

Patrick

Guitar too dry in the intro imo. I really like the vocal sound but just not sure it fits the song? Liked the bass drop-out, helps the verse develop. Snare and toms need to be out there more though! Nice treatment on the backing vocals.

H20

Hissssss Razz Can't hear it in the song though. Where's it from out of interest? Loved the overhead sound. Crisp and detailed, sounded great to me! Nice thudding kick too. A few odd notes in the vocals and they sound a little close and "stuck on" to me, harsh and "brittle" sounding at times too.  Toms ringing and could do with a little less low end and a little more air. Nice work on the guitars.

0dbfs

Love the delay on the intro but not sure about the stuttering effect. Toms need a little work and the lead guitar is very dull sounding. Vocal double is a good idea but a little overdone I think. Snare needs beefing up. Vocal break made me smile in a good way! Top marks for originality and maintaining interest, but I think you need to be more subtle.

MGA

Whole mix needs beefing up really. Guitars need more in the presence region. I liked the different effects on the vocals but I think you could use them more sparingly.  

Mkane

Liked intro. Guitars sound great! Love the drum sound - gated reverb or is it a big hall? Balance is good and the song flows nicely. Delay on vocals in vocal break is great. Nice width. Overall, hard to fault, though I would have liked the drums a little brighter at the expense of some of the presence in the guitars.

Alex L

Phasing problems with the guitars in the intro. Snare sounds great. Overall a very big, wide sound - loved it but I think just a tad too much reverb. I like whatever's going on in the background of the verses. Some sort of delay on the guitar or vocals? Keeps it interesting. I'd like to have heard you ditch the drum reverb in the vocal break just for that drum fill. The kick disappears at points too. Nice work on the synth at the end.

Podgorny

The DI'd guitar in the intro sounds honky, but I really really liked the backwards guitar following it! Good vocal sound but one or two questionable notes. Interesting bass sound, I was surprised to hear those upper mids coming through but it's still very solid in the low end. Guessing you treated the two bass tracks with one for the low end and one for definition? Works well. Sounds a little too compressed to me and gets fatiguing towards the end, but back off some of this compression and I think it'd be a very good mix. Nice ending too.

Graham

Needs more lead guitar! Snare is a little overly dominant but mastering might even tame that. I reckon less synth and more guitar. Kick isn't cutting enough. Very nice overhead/hat sound though and it's a good smooth overall sound.

iCombs

Best vocals in my opinion. Smooth but still very detailed. Lead guitar could do with a presence boost. Great width in verses. Drums a little dull, could buss to a comp to sharpen them up? Good balance. Good bass extension but sounds slightly unstable to me at times.

Type K

Odd clipping on the intro guitars over on the left. Would like to hear the lead guitar in the middle. Snare cuts a little too much for me. Low range is great.
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Reno

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Re: IMP22 Discussion
« Reply #31 on: August 30, 2009, 01:32:27 pm »

Quote:

is this a sample?


yep...

it's  sample that i made with Nick sancinito (hyphen8 drummer) :


Tama starclassic Maple 22x18 with powerstroke 3

3 mics :
1 beta52 In
1 D112 on the drummer side that point the hammer
1 C414 Out
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Josh McArdle

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Re: IMP22 Discussion
« Reply #32 on: August 30, 2009, 01:33:00 pm »

Oh and thanks for the kind comments on the intro. For any wondering I bounced the intro guitars to new tracks and bussed to an aux with a backwards reverb ("Endless Space" in Logic's Space Designer). Then set guitars to No Output to get only the sound of the reverb channel. Could have made it easier for myself by bouncing all guitars to one track but it was way more flexible this way.
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rankus

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Re: IMP22 Discussion
« Reply #33 on: August 30, 2009, 01:33:00 pm »

0dbfs wrote on Sun, 30 August 2009 05:42



Rankus:

Did you reamp the melody gtr's?



Nope, no reamping on my mix.. All the parts are just as they were submitted.


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Rick Welin - Clark Drive Studios http://www.myspace.com/clarkdrivestudios

Ive done stuff I'm not proud of.. and the stuff I am proud of is disgusting ~ Moe Sizlack

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Josh McArdle

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Re: IMP22 Discussion
« Reply #34 on: August 30, 2009, 01:35:20 pm »

Reno wrote on Sun, 30 August 2009 12:32

Quote:

is this a sample?


yep...

it's  sample that i made with Nick sancinito (hyphen8 drummer) :


Tama starclassic Maple 22x18 with powerstroke 3

3 mics :
1 beta52 In
1 D112 on the drummer side that point the hammer
1 C414 Out


Cool thanks for sharing! Never seen a kick mic'd from the drummer's side so will have to try that out some time Smile
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Reno

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Re: IMP22 Discussion
« Reply #35 on: August 30, 2009, 01:40:10 pm »

it's very difficult to do for a classical all drums recording but for sample it's awesome, you can add natural attack without using too much eq

Sm57 works fine too
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h2o1

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Re: IMP22 Discussion
« Reply #36 on: August 30, 2009, 02:06:39 pm »

Josh McArdle wrote on Sun, 30 August 2009 12:26


H20

Hissssss Razz Can't hear it in the song though. Where's it from out of interest?



Funny enough but it comes from Waves RAxx compressor, when it is used in a reverb fashion (-50 threshold) and make any noise audible (in this case probably self-noise). It was set on additional sampled cymbals thru Drumagog (maybe actually it was drumagog who made that hisss, i don't know). After i tried to gate that track, and on final day i preferred with hiss version because it sounded more breathy.
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MGA

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Re: IMP22 Discussion
« Reply #37 on: August 30, 2009, 08:36:41 pm »

Here are my opinions (note those are only opinions):

Antman_Imp_22_090825_1639
Solid mix, nothing to moan about

Blacklight_ukIMP22
Guitars in intro sound too pingy
Vocals get a bit buried in the beginning and mid-end sections

iCombs_IMP22
Solid mix, maybe vocals are a bit buried in the mid-end section

IMP22_mkane
Loud but good, but dynamics might make it more better

IMP22_graham
Good mix

IMP22_h2o1-02
That mix(?) screams turn me down, way too loud

IMP22_JasonThompson
Sounds like the right channel is a tad louder than the left?
but otherwise good as well

imp22_patrik_t
loud
ssss in the vocals is anoying
needs more kick

IMP22_PODGORNY
way too loud
highs are too up front, sounds like broadband noise

IMP22_Reno_thestraws
I like the synth effect (maybe a bit too agressive, but good nonetheless)
great mix

imp22_type_k
man my ears are dying from this loud mixes, but
the drums seem really reverby
anyway next...

IMP22_Osumosan
Ouch seems someone went for that exciting new Death Magnetic sound
anyway must protect ears so next...

IMP22_Rankus-Worth_Ready-Set-Die
there seem to be some crackles (probably introduced during loudness maximazation)
anyway seems to be a good mix, but it's just too hard to make out any details when the mixes are so pumped up

IMP22-thegreatcodfish
sorry my ears are done, though they like what they hear, maybe up the vocals a bit

IMP_22_JoBu
sorry but I can't take it anymore: loud != good



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osumosan

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Re: IMP22 Discussion
« Reply #38 on: August 30, 2009, 11:55:28 pm »

Antman wrote on Sun, 30 August 2009 02:59



I'm just wondering, where exactly do you hear the phase issues? I don't remember doing anything that I would expect to introduce phase issues.


Sometimes the snare seems to cancel out except for a bit of the attack. Maybe it's compression or EQ. The guitars right after the intro vox are most likely indistinct due to EQ.
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osumosan

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Re: IMP22 Discussion
« Reply #39 on: August 30, 2009, 11:57:15 pm »

MGA wrote on Sun, 30 August 2009 20:36

IMP22_Osumosan
Ouch seems someone went for that exciting new Death Magnetic sound
anyway must protect ears so next...



Sorry. Don't know what that is. I'm glad my ears have a modern bent though, being old-school and all...
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Reno

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Re: IMP22 Discussion
« Reply #40 on: August 31, 2009, 05:27:29 am »

My opinion about all mixes (I'm not a pro, I'm just a musician who like recording and mixing. I don't have a lot of gear... I mix with cubase, a tascam US-1641, Samson Rubicon 6A montiors and some freeware ot low cost plug-ins...)

Here are :

Type_k : there's too much reverb on the intro, some notes are lost in this wet ambiance.
Guitars are too much middle range (Too much Donald Duck like we say here in Belgium)
Drums are wide and open, perhaps a bit too much.

PODGORNY : cut the intro. Why not? Your mix is very Hi-fi (Too much low end - too much high end). Great job on bass. The mix is very cool and it would be better with  3db less from 5k to 20k
Melodyne Rules... IMO, the not well tuned vocals brings a lot of charm in this PUNK rock song

JOBU : Cool TRANS effect on the intro, but too much electro for a punk rock band... do you forget the kick track? In a real drums play, all elements are important... effect on vocals are cool, but for dance music... So You got great ideas but for me it doesn't work on a rock song like this

RANKUS :
GREAT MIX, GREAT MASTERING. One thing disturb me : There's too much artificial power in the mix... For me it's a POP-punk-rock band that you made sound like a POWER-ROCK BAND...

Mkane :
Cold intro, I like. God job, too much reverb on snare
Vox is sounding so tiny ine the spacious and power intrumental mix

Patrick t :
Not engouh drums... Not engouh bass... Are You SInger/guitarist?
without a solid bass/drums base, this kind of song can't work

Graham :
It sound choatik!!! the HH tracks is in front of me and I want too kick it out too hear something in the song...
- 6 db on the HH and you mix will be interesting...

MGA :
Not bad at all... too much vocals... It sounds like a headphone mix for singer... doubling the vocals are interesting.

Josh Macardle :
Interesting intro. You mix is not enough wide...
it sound like the band is playing in a tiny tiny tiny garage
give space with pan and you mix will breathe

Blacklight_uk :
Double upload Josh  Laughing

IMP22PSW :
triple upload josh  Very Happy

Icombs:
Your mix works fine, but the vocals are horrible

Billybedaz:
too much Reverb on drums. and the kick sound cartboard. Melodyne on vox... like I said to PODGORNY, IMO, JT doesn't need this in this song

The greatcodfish :
Too much reverb... everything is lost in this METALLIC WET AMBIANCE

Osumosan :
Ouch... It's pumping... bypass all compressors in you mix
Too much compression kill the compression

Jason thompson :
Good mix. Melodyne on vocals too? Dont need this in such a punk-rock song. Delays are cool... good job

H2o1 :
Harsh... aggressive and loud... I don't think you really help the band with such a mix...

Antman :
All the power of you mix is focus on the center, so it sounds close and oppressive... just pan guitars full left and right and you mix will be great
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Patrik T

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Re: IMP22 Discussion
« Reply #41 on: August 31, 2009, 07:12:53 am »

i am not trying to be very negative here, just making some food for thought points. no particular order:

antman - guitars almost completely eating up the bass. the mix is pretty well held together, though with maybe the exception of the kick-smack.

blacklight - i like that you have opened up the muffle by balancing the lower mids with the higher, but thing might be a bit too much smiley-curved. good bass-kick relation though a bit "klicky".

icombs - too much rumble in lower mids. maybe too tight separation between bass and guitars. dynamics feels over-controlled. the sound of impact but without much physical impact.

mkane - much more physical impact than in the previous one. what a difference! nice aggresive, dirty overall tone suiting the song well. good balance. i like the drums not sounding cheap or wrong. only complaint could be how the vox and bass have troubles with each other in the upper mids.

graham - the snare is sounding pretty silly. lead vox too shy. if you looked into the papery snare and the overly squishy hi-hat I think things would lock together much better. the off-tone of these two elements is pretty obvious.

h2o - what's up with the cymbal crap in the intro? there's something nervous about this mix. kick and snare sounds like coming from two different kits. guitars have not much bottom.

jason thompson - everything is absolutely fitting together. from an over-all perspective it's well collected. if you looked into getting the snare to relate to the kick/bass slightly better you'd have a mix that would sound pretty great everywhere.

podgorny - sounds silly in this modern silly aggresive loud way making me want to shut it off. congrats.

reno - in think it is a well balanced and pleasing mix. if you managed to get som of the pointiness out of the kick (more lows) and the snare (less sounding like a small piece of fuck) everything would be pretty grand.

type k - nope. the snare (sitting in its own little space completely apart from the rest and sounding like R2-D2 doing his wife like the machine he is) fucks things up here. i can't hear much else than this disturbing aspect.

osumosan - what a un-pleasing amount of limiter distortion. the glass tone in the breaks scares the shit out of me. have to press stop and check that there is not a fire alarm going off in my hood.

rankus - the "right" tone. balanced.

the great codfish - like the gritty tone in the centre. snare's pointy at just one point when it sounld be more full. i dislike the flanging synths.

jobu - the chopped intro is "fun" since it is not synced and just sounds mocked. snare is boring. what's up with the ancient thought of a verb/delay on snare anyway? i like your litte fuck-ups in the breaks.

mga - too much kick, or too strange with the rest but you have found a pretty well working balance from a total perspective. mix lacks impact though. not very physical and with not much vibe.


Best Regards
Patrik
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Patrik T

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Re: IMP22 Discussion
« Reply #42 on: August 31, 2009, 07:29:13 am »

Antman wrote on Sun, 30 August 2009 08:55

What’d you try to do there?


Getting the singing lady into the context of everything else by with a short delay placing her on a distance similar to the distance to the rest (incl the provided room).

Used two delays. One on the lead vox, one on the back vox. No other delays or verbs were used. Things are dry as Martini here.

Does not sound overly phasey to me.


Best Regards
Patrik
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J-Texas

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Re: IMP22 Discussion
« Reply #43 on: August 31, 2009, 09:04:06 am »

Guys, THANK YOU for taking the time to crit. I promise I'll address each one and do mine ASAP!

They're dropping the POD today, movers tomorrow, estate sale Thurs and Fri, leftovers on Sat, clean house Sun., move my family into something... my house sold pretty quickly and the new one fell through.

edit for type-o (negative)
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Jason Thompson
www.4141studios.com

Antman

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Re: IMP22 Discussion
« Reply #44 on: August 31, 2009, 10:19:56 am »

Reno wrote on Mon, 31 August 2009 17:27


Antman :
All the power of you mix is focus on the center, so it sounds close and oppressive... just pan guitars full left and right and you mix will be great



Weird, I did pan them 100% L and R. With the exception of the centre (lead) guitar. Only centre instruments were bass, kick, snare and vox. Everything else was hard panned. I generally either hard pan or don't pan.

Are you sure you didn't accidentally hit a sum to mono button somehow while listening to my mix?  Laughing

EDIT: I see what you mean now, centre gtr is probably too loud. TBH when I go to master a mix like this I'll often ride the gain of the side channels up to a couple of dB, and so in a mix I make sure I don't push 'em too hard, because in mastering pushing the sides down later sounds worse then bringing them up a bit more. (Gain only, never use phasey tricks).
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