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Author Topic: Healthcare Reform Obstructionist 6  (Read 9140 times)

Berolzheimer

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Healthcare Reform Obstructionist 6
« on: July 29, 2009, 10:28:29 pm »

From Credo:

Have you heard about the six senators who are out to kill health care reform? Of course, that's not how they'd phrase it. Sens. Baucus, Bingaman, Conrad, Enzi, Grassley and Snowe say they're striving for "bi-partisan compromise." But what they're actually doing is working to make sure reform won't include a public option or mandatory employer-based insurance - two key policies needed for effective reform.

There are 100 members of the Senate, but these six, inexplicably, seem to be holding all the cards when it comes to health care. So you probably won't be surprised to learn that all six have taken a huge amount of money from the health insurance industry and pharma - more than $3 million between them.

These six senators -- who, by the way, represent only 2.74% of Americans between them -- are writing bad policy, and they're doing it while they take money from the very companies who stand to benefit the most.

I just signed a petition to tell the "Gang of 6" to give back every dime of their dirty insurance money. I hope you will, too. Please have a look and take action.

http://act.credoaction.com/campaign/gang_of_6/?r_by=5227-183 2068-2niuVyx&rc=confemail
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Barry Hufker

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Re: Healthcare Reform Obstructionist 6
« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2009, 11:46:56 pm »

I've signed as well.

Barry

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Skullsessions

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Re: Healthcare Reform Obstructionist 6
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2009, 08:05:17 am »

It sounds to me like we still need campaign finance reform.  I'd love to see them give the money back....and they should.

But them giving back the money won't change their stance on this issue, will it?

Just out of curiosity, why do you suppose the government would mandate an employer purchase health insurance for an employee?
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James Hook
Houston, TX

Barry Hufker

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Re: Healthcare Reform Obstructionist 6
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2009, 08:35:35 am »

They're not going to give the money back.  It's just a tactic to embarrass them.  It's a "we caught you with your hand in the cookie jar" statement.  Hopefully it would shame them into doing the right thing, but it won't.  Still, making this statement let's everyone know that no one is being fooled by the real motives at work.

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Kris

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Re: Healthcare Reform Obstructionist 6
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2009, 09:32:08 am »

Berolzheimer wrote on Wed, 29 July 2009 22:28

From Credo:

But what they're actually doing is working to make sure reform won't include a public option or mandatory employer-based insurance - two key policies needed for effective reform.




Why are those 'two key policies' needed?

I can imagine the only folks who really think those are NEEDED are those who are interested in something for nothing...
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el duderino

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Re: Healthcare Reform Obstructionist 6
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2009, 10:56:17 am »

Kris wrote on Thu, 30 July 2009 09:32

Berolzheimer wrote on Wed, 29 July 2009 22:28

From Credo:

But what they're actually doing is working to make sure reform won't include a public option or mandatory employer-based insurance - two key policies needed for effective reform.




Why are those 'two key policies' needed?

I can imagine the only folks who really think those are NEEDED are those who are interested in something for nothing...


they are needed because costs are insane. I recently left my job that had healthcare benefits and my option to continue them under cobra would have cost me $1800 a month. thats nearly what my mortgage is. completely impossible for me.

I'm getting a different plan for $400 a month that covers basics, but god forbid something really bad happens because only up to $2500 per year is covered at a hospital.

an affordable public option would be great and would help me. I know plenty of people who's employer does not offer health insurance and they have the same problem i do. Paying nearly $5k a year and rarely using it (thankfully) is ridiculous. whats more ridiculous is that if i needed a major operation it would NOT be covered.

no one here is looking for something for nothing, other than the insurance companies. i mean how is paying 5k a year, not using insurance, and getting nothing back fair?

how can it be a law that all motor vehicles musty have insurance but not humans?
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PookyNMR

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Re: Healthcare Reform Obstructionist 6
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2009, 11:36:11 am »

Skullsessions wrote on Thu, 30 July 2009 06:05

It sounds to me like we still need campaign finance reform.


Absolutely.  In Canada, corporate donations are not allowed.  Personal donations have a cap of $5000.

Campaign finance reform is seriously needed.  Currently our government is the whore to various lobby groups.  This needs to stop.  It's corrupt.

Tightened conflict of interest rules are also necessary.  Legislators should not be able to change the law to benefit their own stock holdings.

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Nathan Rousu

Kris

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Re: Healthcare Reform Obstructionist 6
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2009, 12:14:59 pm »

el duderino wrote on Thu, 30 July 2009 10:56an

affordable public option would be great and would help me. I know plenty of people who's employer does not offer health insurance and they have the same problem i do. Paying nearly $5k a year and rarely using it (thankfully) is ridiculous. whats more ridiculous is that if i needed a major operation it would NOT be covered.

no one here is looking for something for nothing, other than the insurance companies. i mean how is paying 5k a year, not using insurance, and getting nothing back fair?

how can it be a law that all motor vehicles musty have insurance but not humans?



It's the people that pay into insurance and don't use it that make it somewhat available/affordable for the people that get out of it much more than they pay into it.  That's the trick...

Have you ever been in a hospital overnight and seen the bill?!?!?!?  Someone's paying for it... That's where the costs need to come down IMO...  Fix the problem at the source... don't just shuffle the money around!  There's GOT to be a better way to fix this problem than gov't run health insurance.

One thing a gov't run health insurance plan will do is bring up costs for everyone else (taxpayers) to subsidize the losses... Exactly what a private health insurance company does, but on a much grander scale...

.......

People are required to have car insurance to because of the possiblity of damage and injuries inflicted upon OTHERS...  I'm pretty sure the gov't doesn't give a crap if you destroy your own car.
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bblackwood

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Re: Healthcare Reform Obstructionist 6
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2009, 12:26:43 pm »

Kris wrote on Thu, 30 July 2009 11:14

People are required to have car insurance to because of the possiblity of damage and injuries inflicted upon OTHERS...  I'm pretty sure the gov't doesn't give a crap if you destroy your own car.

Indeed - liability is almost always all that is required. Comprehensive coverage is optional.
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Brad Blackwood
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Jay Kadis

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Re: Healthcare Reform Obstructionist 6
« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2009, 12:33:37 pm »

As long as health care is a for-profit enterprise the costs will never be as low as they could be.  There is no perfect system, as long as people get sick costs will be there.  The Kaiser hospital system is as close as we get to a reasonable system and that is partly because they stress preventive care and health education and are not-for-profit.  You may not get cutting-edge experimental treatments but they've managed to provide both of my parents with bypass operations at no additional cost.  

The situation is analogous to the truism "we'll never get a better prison system until we get a better grade of prisoner."  Perhaps this discussion should be aimed more at the people who create their own health problems and then expect some else to fix them up.

bblackwood

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Re: Healthcare Reform Obstructionist 6
« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2009, 12:35:37 pm »

Jay Kadis wrote on Thu, 30 July 2009 11:33

he situation is analogous to the truism "we'll never get a better prison system until we get a better grade of prisoner."  Perhaps this discussion should be aimed more at the people who create their own health problems and then expect some else to fix them up.

Excellent point. I wish this were being discussed more.
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Brad Blackwood
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Graham Jordan

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Re: Healthcare Reform Obstructionist 6
« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2009, 01:08:40 pm »

Kris wrote on Thu, 30 July 2009 09:14

el duderino wrote on Thu, 30 July 2009 10:56an

affordable public option would be great and would help me. I know plenty of people who's employer does not offer health insurance and they have the same problem i do. Paying nearly $5k a year and rarely using it (thankfully) is ridiculous. whats more ridiculous is that if i needed a major operation it would NOT be covered.

no one here is looking for something for nothing, other than the insurance companies. i mean how is paying 5k a year, not using insurance, and getting nothing back fair?




It's the people that pay into insurance and don't use it that make it somewhat available/affordable for the people that get out of it much more than they pay into it.  That's the trick...

Have you ever been in a hospital overnight and seen the bill?!?!?!?  Someone's paying for it... That's where the costs need to come down IMO...  Fix the problem at the source... don't just shuffle the money around!  There's GOT to be a better way to fix this problem than gov't run health insurance.




It's not just the people 'underutilizing' their heath insurance that are paying for the others, it's also the uninsured! The health insurance companies are out to make profit - not to keep you healthy (except as far as needed to get customers in the first place). They negotiate contract rates for things with the providers. The providers' 'listed' rates are higher still, and this is what would get charged to those who are uninsured. The insurance companies never pay 'list' price.

Also, if  you're getting too 'expensive' for the insurer, they're going to find anyway they can to dump you, or not cover things.

Bottom line, if we do have health insurance companies, they should be nonprofit! Allowing for-profit health care was the big mistake. Simply making existing health insurance more 'affordable' doesn't fix a thing.
It also needs to be a complete system - not separate smaller systems. although that still would allow separate companies.

And to those who worry about 'government bureaucrats' deciding what doctors they can see, what procedures they can get... I see it as being better than the existing system where a private for-profit company's accountants/actuaries  decide (i.e. the people writing the insurance policy terms/coverages). You would still have to remove the 'for-profit' element from government (i.e. corporate contributions). Anyone who thinks they can go see whatever doctor they like, and that their doctor has free range over what can and should be done for you, is either deluding themselves, or has lots and lots of money (or maybe they're employed by Microsoft).
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Skullsessions

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Re: Healthcare Reform Obstructionist 6
« Reply #12 on: July 30, 2009, 01:39:44 pm »

The only way an insurance scheme can work is if it inherently involves some (usually many) people paying for services they don't use.  And people don't like to be told that they have to throw their money down a hole.

And that's why a government-run insurance plan which forces people to opt in is a problem.


But please, forget insurance for a moment.

When I need a product or service, I shop at the cheapest place if I can get the same thing for a better price.  Don't we all?  And don't those places seem to stay open for business?

If health care is too expensive, then were are the doctors who are willing to charge less for the same excellent product?

Is it possible that healthcare itself is not the thing that is overpriced....but the cost of the malpractice insurance?

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James Hook
Houston, TX

Jay Kadis

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Re: Healthcare Reform Obstructionist 6
« Reply #13 on: July 30, 2009, 01:50:58 pm »

Skullsessions wrote on Thu, 30 July 2009 10:39


When I need a product or service, I shop at the cheapest place if I can get the same thing for a better price.  Don't we all?  
No, we don't or Walmart and Guitar Center would be the only places to shop.  You pay more for expertise and quality.  I don't want the lowest common denominator health care.

The idea of insurance only works if the entire population pays equally and everyone has the same opportunity to use the service.  The money doesn't go down a hole: it helps prevent epidemics from spreading for example - public health benefits everyone.  Malpractice insurance is part of the problem, as are the costs of a medical education.  That all needs to be factored into the system.

Skullsessions

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Re: Healthcare Reform Obstructionist 6
« Reply #14 on: July 30, 2009, 02:12:22 pm »

You didn't read, yet you quote.

I said..."I shop at the cheapest place if I can get the same thing for a better price"

And like you said, to get a good quality product, you need expertise. Does that come cheaply?  That was sort of my point....that it's usually not.

If everyone is on the Government dole, does everyone get API preamps, or does everyone get Behringer preamps because that's all the system can afford?

It's finite.  The money and benefits only go so far.  And when everyone expects his "fair share"...that's what he gets.  Fair.  Behringer for everyone.
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James Hook
Houston, TX

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