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[dconstruction]

I just finished day three of recording a first album for a young Dallas band, and it's definitely the heaviest, poppiest project I've taken on.  Many of you record/mix/produce this sort of stuff with much more regularity (I'm more established in the indie quirk-pop/instrospective side of things - IMP7, IMP9, IMP18) so I'm appealing to your generosity to give a track or two a listen.  I'd love your collective input: we've probably got only a day of tracking left, and then maybe a day of mix.  I want my head straight as I enter the final stretch.

Caveats: I've only been mixing during the tracking process; I haven't yet devoted any time only to mixing.  Bass is DI.  We'll be reamping soon.  Blah, blah, blah: point is, it's a work in progress.

My thoughts: In general, I think the guitars are too dark and some of the performances a bit lax.  I feel the need to fill up every bit of space, but think I'm struggling to balance "full" with "impact."  I'm also second guessing my decision not to go with a more modern guitar sound.

Anyway, a heart-felt thank you to anyone with the time and inclination to critique.  I'm of course willing to listen to anyone, and answer any questions, should they arise.

  http://www.juniusrecordingco.com/MP3/OrangePeelSunshine/01Ar eWeGoingAlltheWay.mp3
  http://www.juniusrecordingco.com/MP3/OrangePeelSunshine/02Ba cktoDallas.mp3
  http://www.juniusrecordingco.com/MP3/OrangePeelSunshine/03Da ncingwithMachinery.mp3
  http://www.juniusrecordingco.com/MP3/OrangePeelSunshine/04Di abolicPacifist.mp3
  http://www.juniusrecordingco.com/MP3/OrangePeelSunshine/05Fi veBells.mp3
  http://www.juniusrecordingco.com/MP3/OrangePeelSunshine/06If YouNeedaGoodbye.mp3
  http://www.juniusrecordingco.com/MP3/OrangePeelSunshine/07NA SAGotItRight.mp3
  http://www.juniusrecordingco.com/MP3/OrangePeelSunshine/08Pa idMeOut.mp3
  http://www.juniusrecordingco.com/MP3/OrangePeelSunshine/09Pa intedToesandTies.mp3
  http://www.juniusrecordingco.com/MP3/OrangePeelSunshine/10Pi nkLipstick.mp3

[rankus]

First song:

Well I'd like to see the kick a little more contained.  It's a bit woolly... a sample may be in order... you want a lot more "point" on that sucker... a boost up around 5-10k for some click... More compression and heavy handed EQ (Or as I mention: a sample)


Agree on the guitars being a little too dark as well. Kill as much bottom as you can with high pass filter (or heavy shelve) and boost some high end.

Gobs of compression is your friend in this type of genre. (yes even on distorted gtrs)

Second Song:

May suit the gtr tone more than the first song... and the natural drums are more appropriate... I'd go for a more "natural" sound of that of the indie stuff your used to.

Overall though it sounds pretty decent... just need to get things brightened up considerably (specially the guitars and snare) and balanced:  Vox up, gtrs down, (only referring to the first song levels here.. later songs have a different balance)

When you re-amp the bass try soloing the guitars and monitor them while tweaking the EQ on the bass amp so that they stay out of each others way... A boost of 1.6 - 2k medium Q to get the bass to speak clearly... lose as much low mid (175ish) as you can without sounding thin (why I suggest monitoring the gtrs in too) Think of the bass and gtrs as one instrument and you will find you can have more room for everything else... you just need to suggest a low end rather than actually having a fat one on both the gtrs and bass if you know what I mean...

Sounds like a fun project... I've been knee deep in metal lately (I really have no idea of why... it's depressing)

[dconstruction]

It *is* a fun project, but one that's suddenly got me insecure.  My fist was pumping in the air while tracking, but that confidence has withered a bit.

Thank you for the time you took.  It means a lot.

L

[J-Texas]

L,

If you want to know what to do on this, listen to 89.7 all day, 3 days in a row. You'll be fine. I listened to about :30 of the first one, and I know I'm not fairly critiquing this, so grain of salt if you will. Those guitars aren't bright enough, you got that right. The drum sound you got is very distant for that type of music IMO. There seems to be some crazy swishing going on in that cymbal too. Sounds like Animal from the Muppet Show hitting it (way too hard). You've got good stuff to work with man. I'm serious about Power FM. Listen, listen, listen and then take what you think is appropriate from those songs as a whole.

[rankus]

Good idea from Jason. (listening to a station that plays this type of stuff)

I would expand on that a bit and suggest that you ask the band for a compilation CD (or even MySpace links to bands that they like)... it will give you an idea of drum sounds they like etc.

Agree with Jason on the drum comment also... It sounds pretty roomy.  Pull down your room and overheads and get a tight snappy sound off the close mics, then bring the OHds and rooms in to color... Well maybe have the OHds up a tad while getting the close mics going... Boost the toms a bit at their fundamental freqs to "make em big". Try flipping the polarity on the OHds while listening to the Kick and Snare... looking for the setting where they sound most solid (although I'm sure Lance knows this I throw it in for any newbs that may be following along) Repeat with the rooms... then check the tom polarities... same thing listen for solid bottom end, and flip individual tom channels to suit.  (PS If you end up with everything but say the Kick flipped then you may want to just flip that channel and not all the others... we really want "absolute polarity" (TM) for the bottom end.

Also agree:  The tracking sounds pretty good..

Just don't be shy with the EQ and compression... twist them suckers all the way to see what happens!

PS:  On brightening the guitars don't brighten all the way up the spectrum.  I commonly Low Pass filter em around 10-12k ... Boosting: sweep around 1-6k and see what sounds best. (as wide a Q as possible)

 

[J-Texas]

rankus wrote on Mon, 27 July 2009 23:42

PS:  On brightening the guitars don't brighten all the way up the spectrum.  I commonly Low Pass filter em around 10-12k ... Boosting: sweep around 1-6k and see what sounds best. (as wide a Q as possible)

I'll see you one quote and raise you a "muddy" sound, squishy on the guitars. When you re-amp, go for a tighter, more midrange sound (IMO only) and mix the two. Dare I say a Boogie? I have a little combo that sounds great on that type of music if you need it.

[Eric H.]

hi,

fist of all, real nice album.
it is my fist listen of the day and it is good one. the songs are good, so you're fine with this base.

my grain of salt:

drums need lot of rework in tone. i think the rest is pretty healthy a just need fine tuning.
i feel there is way too much crash. you could roll off the high on the cymbals. the kick should contrast more with the bass and the snare drum is too thin. i also think the guitars are muddying THE LOW END. once you high pass them, the real low register will appear clearer.

have fun!

[craig boychuk]

Hi dconstruction

Really good recording!!! Cool band, good tunes, good sounds. I didn't hear any performance issues, but I'm pretty cavalier about that sorta thing.

Here are my opinions, for what they're worth...:

Drums:

Don't use samples. For the love of god. please.

They sound really good as-is.

I'd tend to agree with the sentiment of maybe adding some upper mids or something to the drums to get a bit of snap out of them. From Diabolic Pacifist and onward the drums seem to sit better than on the first few songs. I'm actually really digging them just as they are.

Guitars sound awesome, don't try to tell yourself otherwise. It's refreshing to hear something different than the usual "modern" stuff. Personally I'd leave 'em as is. HPF might help them sit better, but is that even necessary? If it ain't broke...

Bass of course will change with reamping. With the right midrange settings it will stand up to the guitars no prob.

I was going to suggest maybe more ambience on the drums, but the more I listen the more I like it on the dry side. Contrary to certain trends perhaps, but again I think this is a good thing.

So yeah. In summary, I think it sounds great and am of the opinion that you should totally go for the more unique sounds you have instead of trying to steer it towards some sort of perceived status quo or precident or whatever.


nice work!!

PM me when it's available for purchase!!

-craig

[craig boychuk]

A good example of great but somewhat dark sounding record is Thingy's album Songs About Angels, Evil, And Running Around On Fire.

Check it, yo.

There's also lots of darker stuff coming from revered establishments such as Electrical.

It's not a crime to not hype the HF.

Y'know?

just a thought...

-craig

[osumosan]

Don't forget to de-ess the vox.
Things to try...

I'm hearing the room (esp. on the kick) which seems on the small side. Maybe samples are the way to go here if you can't knock the recorded ambience down.

You'll need a little glue (I mix into a comp most times, so I always expect a little glue).

See what besides the overhead you can add air to, maybe even on the mix buss.

[jimmyjazz]

Vocals sound like Superchunk!  (That's a good thing.)

Man, I wouldn't try to emulate what's "out there".  Go with your gut.  I like the slightly dark, wooly tone and the more roomy drums.  Sure, it could be a bit brighter, but for goodness' sake, don't try to go all the way to the standard for the genre "just because".  It takes all kinds.

[osumosan]

Really? I got Shudder To Think myself. Definitely from that time period, though, mixed in with something new. I like. Very interesting and creative.

[jimmyjazz]

Yeah, I can hear that.  The Superchunk reference was mainly in the chorus vocals on the first tune.

Go with it, dconstruction.  It's your gig.

[J-Texas]

Sorry, but the title of this thread is "Out of My Comfort Zone". Then, I read this:

dconstruction wrote on Mon, 27 July 2009 14:26

(I'm more established in the indie quirk-pop/instrospective side of things

So, maybe the goal is for something a little more "modern/pop/less dark". Where did I get that impression?

dconstruction wrote on Mon, 27 July 2009 14:26

My thoughts: In general, I think the guitars are too dark and some of the performances a bit lax.  I feel the need to fill up every bit of space, but think I'm struggling to balance "full" with "impact."  I'm also second guessing my decision not to go with a more modern guitar sound.

I don't see how asking for feedback on "that" sound would make him compromise his vision for the outcome.

[dconstruction]

Well, hold on, hold on: if there's anything I've learned on this forum, it's the unaccountability of taste.

I've appreciated the highly detailed, technical advice - and I'll be taking it all.  Do I *really* know the difference between 130Hz and 180Hz?  No, I do not.  Your specificity will help me zone in and listen harder.  But, I have also appreciated the unsolicited confirmation that my instincts to go darker and rougher than the normal modern high-gain sound might have been appropriate.  I'm still going to brighten them up, because I feel that's needed.  And the drums I'll process more carefully, too.  There is a middle ground, but the character of the sound - especially the guitars, which were cut on a 6" 5-watt Vibro Champ and my beloved tone machine, a 1x12" Reverend Hellhound, and some sparing overdubs on a breaking-up Twin - not exactly a 5150, right? - the character will remain.  I did that deliberately, but - as I mentioned - began to second-guess myself.

In the end, you guys have done exactly what I hoped you would: listen.  I especially appreciate those who listened to more than a song or two.  See, that's conscientious.  And helpful.  And fucking cool of you.  

I owe you all beers.  Final tracking starts 11:00am tomorrow.

Lindsay (though Lance will do)