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[Barry Hufker]

J.J.

You're right of course.  I fucked up the iron joke.  I can't even get tasteless right...

Barry

[Malcolm Boyce]

Barry Hufker wrote on Mon, 29 June 2009 14:49

J.J. You're right of course.  I fucked up the iron joke.  I can't even get tasteless right... Barry

That's OK...  JJ fucked up the Shuttle joke.

[Ryan Slowey]

I saw A Perfect Circle play around the time of Michael's trial, and Maynard James Keenan was cracking MJ jokes all night from the stage....

"What's the difference btwn. Michael Jackson and a pimple?

A pimple doesn't usually come on a kids face until he's 12 years old."


Also,

Knock Knock....

[JDNelson]

J.J. Blair wrote on Sat, 27 June 2009 20:58

He co-wrote "We Are the World,"

Well we shouldn't hold that against him as everybody lays a stinker somewhere along the line.

[Strummer]

If I'm alive and the internet still works, I will be interested to see what you "first rate" people post when Pete Townshend dies.

[Ashermusic]

Strummer wrote on Tue, 30 June 2009 02:37

If I'm alive and the internet still works, I will be interested to see what you "first rate" people post when Pete Townshend dies.

I can tell you what I will write:

"Sad, we have lost one of the great original voices in rock music history."

[J.J. Blair]

Ashermusic wrote on Mon, 29 June 2009 09:26

It is not elitist to ask that people behave in a respectful manner at least for a little while after someone's recent passing. Ironically, I find that  people lower on the socio-economic scale in general understand this better than their more affluent and better-educated friends. So if that makes me an elitist, pin the badge on me. And BTW, when did crude and vulgar become the new "clever?" If notable wits like Robert Benchley, Dorothy Parker, Ring Lardner  etc. were alive to see what is now passing for wit, they would worship the porcelain goddess repeatedly.

It's elitist that you call it "low class."  Asking us to behave in a "respectful manner" is not elitist.  But to insinuate that we weren't raised the right way, and to make a class distinction is by definition elitist and snobbery.  

Dorothy Parker had quite a vulgar vocabulary, AFAIK, and from all accounts was a tramp.  Some people would say that behavior is low class.

Being crude doesn't make you clever.  Being clever makes you clever.  

But what you don't seem to understand is that there is a type of humor that makes you uncomfortable in its offensiveness, yet, the joke is clever at the same time, and you find yourself laughing at something that also offends you.  There's an Almodovar movie named "Kika."  There is a rape scene, that is one of the funniest cinema moments ever.  The entire theater was in stitches, yet I'm sure every one of them was saying, "Oh my god.  I'm laughing at a rape scene.  This is wrong!"

Juxtapose that with a story about Steven Segal giving an idea for a Saturday Night LIve skit, that involved somebody getting raped.  It was not funny.  It never even got discussed after he pitched it.  He thought it was hysterical.

Almodovar = offensive and clever.
Steven Segal = just offensive.

My MJ joke was both offensive and clever.  Sorry you maybe didn't get the twist about moonwalking.  It's not your generation.  It wasn't clever because it was offensive.  It was clever because there was a twist on the expected.  You are conflating things.  Nobody is saying that crude is clever.  But humor that makes you laugh while it offends you has its place, and is completely valid.

Jay, let me ask you something: If I make Charles Manson jokes after he dies, will you have the same feelings?  I mean, 'cuz MJ didn't kill anybody, but the guy was bad news, even if it was his dad's fault.  The dude was a pedarast.  We're not making jokes about Farrah's anal cancer.  We're poking fun of a very bizarre guy who was addicted to drugs and little kids.  Maybe somebody who doesn't deserve us behaving in a "respectful manner."

And you know what?  Us doing that is nowhere nearly as offensive as his father's recent behavior.  

[J.J. Blair]

Strummer wrote on Mon, 29 June 2009 18:37

If I'm alive and the internet still works, I will be interested to see what you "first rate" people post when Pete Townshend dies.

a) There are no Pete jokes, probably because there's no way to make a joke out of that situation.  If there were a joke, I would make it, even though I consider him a friend of mine, and I believe his explanation for what happened.

b) Pete isn't a good example to compare to MJ.  Pete on his own, as well as his group, have a very long track record of charitable and humanitarian causes.  MJ didn't.  Also, Pete got arrested because they found a credit card charge on a kiddy porn site.  It made front page news.  When they raided his home, they never found kiddy porn.  He was exculpated, and it was buried in the back pages.  MJ had several children accuse him of molestation.  MJ admitted that he shared his bed with children.  He took children on vacations with him, and had sleepovers at Neverland.  The police found books with pictures of naked children.  One child was able to accurately describe MJ's penis to the police.  Not a good parallel.  Maybe you should try Gary Glitter.

c) Funny is funny.  If a joke works, it's funny, no matter who it's about.  Jews tell jewish jokes all the time, if they are truly funny.  

Here's one told by my sister, the kosher jew: What's the object of Jewish football?

To get the quarterback.

Clever.  Offensive.  Funny.  Worth repeating.  

BTW, we're character assassinating somebody who quite frankly deserves it, and doing it in a place known for not being the height of sensitivity, with a clear warning implied in the title.  We're not doing it on an MJ fan forum, etc.  Why somebody who is mourning MJ would bother clicking this thread is beyond me.  

If somebody tells me a Pete joke and it is funny, I'm going to laugh.  When my beloved mother dies, I have a few jokes to make at her funeral.  

[Ashermusic]

J.J. Blair wrote on Tue, 30 June 2009 04:03

Ashermusic wrote on Mon, 29 June 2009 09:26 It is not elitist to ask that people behave in a respectful manner at least for a little while after someone's recent passing. Ironically, I find that  people lower on the socio-economic scale in general understand this better than their more affluent and better-educated friends. So if that makes me an elitist, pin the badge on me. And BTW, when did crude and vulgar become the new "clever?" If notable wits like Robert Benchley, Dorothy Parker, Ring Lardner  etc. were alive to see what is now passing for wit, they would worship the porcelain goddess repeatedly. It's elitist that you call it "low class."  Asking us to behave in a "respectful manner" is not elitist.  But to insinuate that we weren't raised the right way, and to make a class distinction is by definition elitist and snobbery.   Dorothy Parker had quite a vulgar vocabulary, AFAIK, and from all accounts was a tramp.  Some people would say that behavior is low class. Being crude doesn't make you clever.  Being clever makes you clever.   But what you don't seem to understand is that there is a type of humor that makes you uncomfortable in its offensiveness, yet, the joke is clever at the same time, and you find yourself laughing at something that also offends you.  There's an Almodovar movie named "Kika."  There is a rape scene, that is one of the funniest cinema moments ever.  The entire theater was in stitches, yet I'm sure every one of them was saying, "Oh my god.  I'm laughing at a rape scene.  This is wrong!" Juxtapose that with a story about Steven Segal giving an idea for a Saturday Night LIve skit, that involved somebody getting raped.  It was not funny.  It never even got discussed after he pitched it.  He thought it was hysterical. Almodovar = offensive and clever. Steven Segal = just offensive. My MJ joke was both offensive and clever.  Sorry you maybe didn't get the twist about moonwalking.  It's not your generation.  It wasn't clever because it was offensive.  It was clever because there was a twist on the expected.  You are conflating things.  Nobody is saying that crude is clever.  But humor that makes you laugh while it offends you has its place, and is completely valid. Jay, let me ask you something: If I make Charles Manson jokes after he dies, will you have the same feelings?  I mean, 'cuz MJ didn't kill anybody, but the guy was bad news, even if it was his dad's fault.  The dude was a pedarast.  We're not making jokes about Farrah's anal cancer.  We're poking fun of a very bizarre guy who was addicted to drugs and little kids.  Maybe somebody who doesn't deserve us behaving in a "respectful manner." And you know what?  Us doing that is nowhere nearly as offensive as his father's recent behavior.

Well J.J, there is a lot here to respond to.

I get the joke. I do not find it clever but then what a lot of people find clever these days I do not, so clearly I am out of touch with some contemporary sense of clever. Chris Rock and Eddie Izzard are clever to me while. The dufus films that are so popular today are not clever to me, just crude and stupid humor.

To compare MJ to Manson is the worst case of hyperbole and I am not convinced he was a pederast. I think he was stunted in a childish emotional state and was probably largely asexual. But even if he was, as bad as that is, it does NOT make him Manson.

And yes, his father's behavior is hard to fathom and offensive.

[Ashermusic]

[quote title=J.J. Blair wrote on Tue, 30 June 2009 04:24]

Strummer wrote on Mon, 29 June 2009 18:37

Here's one told by my sister, the kosher jew: What's the object of Jewish football? To get the quarterback. Clever.  Offensive.  Funny.  Worth repeating.

Not clever. Equally offensive from a Jew as a Gentile. Not worth repeating. Perpetuates stereotypes.

What's next for you to quote as clever, fried chicken and watermelon jokes by a Black? How about slanty-eyed jokes about Asians from a Chinese person?

I am sorry, but you are just not a person I could be friends with.

As for the elitist charge, the dictionary defines the an elitist as "a person who believes that a system or society should be ruled or dominated by an elite."

That is not me.I am arguing that people demonstrate class by holding themselves to a higher standard of behavior.

[Barry Hufker]

Clever isn't always funny and funny isn't always clever.  People are "roasted" while still alive (see the famous "Friar's Club" roasts) and/or roasted after their gone.  For me it's not about who deserves it or doesn't.  It's about is it funny no matter how tasteless it is.  I find a lot of things funny, many I shouldn't but I see the humor and/or absurdity in them.  Sometimes I see the justice in it.  Sometimes it's just funny because it's stupid.

I believe Mark Twain once said something such as "there's no humor in Heaven" because it involves some form of tragedy.  I don't believe for a second there's no humor in Heaven.  While humor often is made out of tragedy or at someone's expense, there are many types of humor.  Here we're investigating bad taste.  It is what it is.

While re-reading this post, it seems I had no real point to writing any of the above.
Barry

[Daniel Farris]

J.J. Blair wrote on Mon, 29 June 2009 20:24

a) There are no Pete jokes, probably because there's no way to make a joke out of that situation.

The Kids Are Alright?

DF

[Strummer]

J.J. Blair wrote on Mon, 29 June 2009 23:24

Strummer wrote on Mon, 29 June 2009 18:37 If I'm alive and the internet still works, I will be interested to see what you "first rate" people post when Pete Townshend dies. a) There are no Pete jokes, probably because there's no way to make a joke out of that situation.  If there were a joke, I would make it, even though I consider him a friend of mine, and I believe his explanation for what happened. b)   Maybe you should try Gary Glitter. Why somebody who is mourning MJ would bother clicking this thread is beyond me.

a) There are Pete jokes, apparently you haven't heard them.

b) Gary isn't a friend of mine, but I'll be making no jokes about him either.

I'm not mourning. I'm commenting.

[Barry Hufker]

Daniel Farris wrote on Mon, 29 June 2009 23:51

J.J. Blair wrote on Mon, 29 June 2009 20:24 a) There are no Pete jokes, probably because there's no way to make a joke out of that situation. The Kids Are Alright? DF

The Kids Are Alright.

Now that the police have arrived.



Mommy why does Uncle Pete keep saying he needs to adjust my "whammy bar"?

Mommy why does Uncle Pete keep asking me if I know any deaf, dumb and blind kids?


Barry

[J.J. Blair]

Quote:

I am sorry, but you are just not a person I could be friends with. As for the elitist charge, the dictionary defines the an elitist as "a person who believes that a system or society should be ruled or dominated by an elite." That is not me.I am arguing that people demonstrate class by holding themselves to a higher standard of behavior.

Jay, don't worry.  I don't think we had a lunch date planned any time soon, still I'm sorry that without ever meeting me, you have deduced that I'm not somebody you could be friends with, because of my sense of humor.

And yes, that definition applies, because you are talking about some elite sense of morality, or whatever it is.  You would like society to behave in the manner which you were raised to believe they should, and when we don't you call us "low class."  It's snobbery.  Definitely not an attitude Jesus would have!

However, I think it's a bit narrow minded.  It's a poor order of priorities.  Like I said before, there are much more important qualities in human beings than whether or not their sense of humor is offensive.  That's pretty far down the list.  Like I said, honesty, integrity, charity, compassion are all much more important.  (And sorry, I don't find telling these jokes in this environment lacking in compassion.  Lacking in taste, I'll give you.)

BTW, you mentioned Chris Rock as "clever", and he's one of the crudest comedians of his stature, not to mention, he tells plenty of racial jokes, the type of which you just said aren't OK.  He says some stuff that is very offensive to many people.  

You know, when we draw such an intransigent line, we are bound to be hypocritical at some point.  

You know what I loved about June and Johnny Cash?  They really had some lofty ideals of what was right and wrong, but they were so accepting of everybody.  They had friends they loved dearly, whose lifestyle they disagreed with, yet they never judged them for it.  Perhaps it was because they had so many of their own demons, that it would have been hypocritical to judge others.  I dunno.  Where I come from, being judgmental is a defect of character that is  more important for me to overcome than my use of crude and tasteless humor.  The St. Francis Prayer is the blueprint to which I aspire.  

Yup, much bigger fish to fry than a tasteless sense of humor.  I think I'll spend tomorrow working on being less judgmental and more tolerant and accepting of others, come to think of it.  I keep letting that one get away from me, but thanks for the reminder!