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[gtoledo3]

Yes. The comment about that amp having totally non-responsive dynamics is spot on. I think of it as a good amp for a wiry kind of grating one off guitar part in a song.

Anyways... related - when that Super Reverb re-issue came out, it was SO far off of what a real Super Reverb sounds like, that in conjunction with their strong claims, I almost thought it was a class action lawsuit scenario I'm thankful I didn't pre-order. The eq itself was soooo wrong, as was the reverb and tremelo. I feel the same way about that Bassman re-issue. That is even more god awful.

The only new amps I've played in awhile that have given me a response close to some of the classics (and still not QUITE), are the Dr. Z series. I'm curious what other people out there are using as far as new production amps go. I'm always wanting to find a suitable replacement for gigging with my old Super and/or Deluxe's.... so I don't have to hurt inside every time I go over a bump on the road.

[GaryR47]

It strikes me that this is like most things designed and built these days.  They are made to be assembled cheaply and quickly.........once!  There is no thought given to ever repairing these things.  Unfortunately, ease of repair is not a design criteria in this case.

The construction reminds me of some of the older Peavey stuff with a PCB for the power tubes.  I remember repairing a "Mace" where someone spilled some liquid into it.  The plate trace shorted to the heater trace...big mess, lots o' carbon.  

Gary

[kats]

Ian Visible wrote on Mon, 22 June 2009 05:41

Is the Deluxe Reverb reissue any good?

Dunno, but I played a 57 Deluxe (tweed re-issue) that was REALLY nice. I heard (but can't confirm) that Victoria was actually making these for the Fender custom shop.

[seedyunderbelly.com]

None of the re-issues  Fender/Vox/Mars  are in the same sea as the vintage orig models  imo

[kats]

By default there will be differences. I want to pass on an interesting thing I did once.

I had a Fender re-issue '63 vibroverb (brown face) and a vintage vibro verb blackface. Playing them side by side the tone of the vintage blackface was just so much better - no debate.

However, running the amplifier from the re-issue into the vintage speakers the gap narrowed substantially. So much so that you really could not make any generalizations over which had the better tone - it became a very very subjective matter.

My conclusion is that the speaker is really the main culprit in many of the re-issues lacking "mojo".

[MagnetoSound]

kats wrote on Sun, 28 June 2009 22:23

My conclusion is that the speaker is really the main culprit in many of the re-issues lacking "mojo".

I would agree, although the stiffer power supplies in a lot of the newer amps also has an effect on their lack of 'empathy'.

Much of what we like in vintage amps is the HT sag, and the responsiveness it imparts.

(And then there is the componentry in the tone stacks ...)

But yes, no modern speaker* that I've heard comes that close to the tone of an old Jensen, even the new 'reissue' Alnicos, although they're pretty good. The paper is not the same.


(*Except Celestion Greenbacks - the most forgiving guitar speaker still in production, IMO - and unchanged, as far as I can tell, since they were first made.)

[iCombs]

MagnetoSound wrote on Sun, 28 June 2009 16:41

(*Except Celestion Greenbacks - the most forgiving guitar speaker still in production, IMO - and unchanged, as far as I can tell, since they were first made.)

Lord how I loves me some Greenbacks.  If only everything came with those, my life would be so much better.

I keep going back to them...for so much stuff they just seem like they work and don't get too much in the way of the tone of the amp...they definitely don't hold up well to anything bigger than 100 watts (in a 4x12)...but even my 50 watt JCM 2000 sounds at least decent though them.

[MagnetoSound]

iCombs wrote on Mon, 29 June 2009 22:47

...they definitely don't hold up well to anything bigger than 100 watts (in a 4x12)...

There are higher rated G12s too, of course.

Granted, the more they can handle the stiffer they get, but they do still have the family trait - nice smooth mids and clear highs.

[iCombs]

See...and that's where I step off...I've just never liked any of the G12's...M's...T's...V30's are alright...but really even those are just a little too spikey for my ear.

I will say that a Marshall cab with G12M's can be a real saving grace when you've got a head like a Triple Rec or similar...something that can take what the amp is pushing out...but those same cabs (which are sold with the new JCM 2K's) under my 50 watter sound anemic and just gross overall.

Though I think that this is all with the caviat that it depends on the enclosure quite a bit.  But when I keep score...I keep going back to Greenbacks as my standby for what the archetypal guitar sound is in my head.

[Eric H.]

I think there never was a 'blues deville 310'. I believe there was a 410 though.
When i bought my amp&guitar (tele standard us 95) some 15 years ago, i also had the chance to hear a vintage AC30 a some 60's telecaster : f*!k hell! I don't know much about gear, but i know good sound and this was extremely good, excatly what i wanted, only far up of my budget.
I already had to repair the Fender twice (dead sovtek tubes i believe, a long time ago). Should i needed to repair again, I'll think of an old smaller amp, like a 'champ' maybe? I'll check the small guitar amp thread.

[rob s]

i bought a 63 vibro verb re issue sight unseen based having played a real one.
what a shrill piece of shit that re issue is.
even with retubing and speakering.
yuch.

[Nick Sevilla]

rob s wrote on Sun, 19 July 2009 19:30

i bought a 63 vibro verb re issue sight unseen based having played a real one. what a shrill piece of shit that re issue is. even with retubing and speakering. yuch.

Expecting something new to sound  like something old, is like expecting Santa Claus to show up today.

Anyways, I'm trying to ge tsome samples of the Fender Deluxe amplifier I reviewed originally here, and let others decide if they like it or not.

To me personally, an amplifier is just that : it amplifies what you put in. A lot of people complain about how crappy this or that amp sounds... is it really the amp?

Cheers

[MagnetoSound]

Nick Sevilla wrote on Mon, 20 July 2009 16:24

To me personally, an amplifier is just that : it amplifies what you put in.

No guitar amp does that, if it's decent.

Ever tried a DI guitar, no EQ, through a console? How often does that suck?

A good amp will always alter the tone - in a good way. The tonal signature of an amp is what gives it it's character.

[gtoledo3]

Nick Sevilla wrote on Mon, 20 July 2009 16:24

rob s wrote on Sun, 19 July 2009 19:30 i bought a 63 vibro verb re issue sight unseen based having played a real one. what a shrill piece of shit that re issue is. even with retubing and speakering. yuch. Expecting something new to sound  like something old, is like expecting Santa Claus to show up today. Anyways, I'm trying to ge tsome samples of the Fender Deluxe amplifier I reviewed originally here, and let others decide if they like it or not. To me personally, an amplifier is just that : it amplifies what you put in. A lot of people complain about how crappy this or that amp sounds... is it really the amp? Cheers

Well, in a relativist way you are right - the playing obviously justifies the tone. I little transistor practice amp can sound great if it fits the part, etc... I have a line 6 2-12 amp I picked up for $60 bucks! I guess because they are so horrible? I can make it work live... wouldn't want to record with it.

BTW... rethink the comment about amps when it comes to the world of guitar. Exactly what guitar amp puts out what you put in? I think that carries over to ALL amps, but in the world of guitar, an amp that puts out what you put in is generally VERY undesirable.

... but I think that the main point here, besides the issue of the Hot Rod Deluxe, is that you can get the re-issue Fender amplifiers, and put old speakers in, NOS tubes, etc., etc., but they still will sound miles away from authentic. I'm of the belief that tone pots actually have a decent amount to do with it as well... most everything in those amps is fairly different. They should just market them as "the current model" instead of dressing them up like they are re-issues, like they did for years. I'm ok with THAT.

I also don't think it's always all about aging of parts, though it is definitely about the parts. For instance, it's not the the new Deluxe's, or Super Reverbs sound different than the vintage simply because they are new and not played in.

[Sean Eldon Qualls]

I played a new Hot Rod Deluxe in NY this weekend at an old friend's house. We could get it plenty loud and definitely weren't in a loud guitar store.

I hope the "originals" fetch outrageous vintage dollars in 30 years. Quite proportionately, blue tolex is the new silverface. Only silverface amps still rock'n'roll without the icepicks.