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[Jim Williams]

Bruno Putzeys wrote on Thu, 04 June 2009 14:08

Interesting suggestion, dbock. @Jim: were you referring to center fed capsules too?

Those and ring connected capsules, it really doesn't matter. The pure silver is the sonic difference that I hear over copper. As usual, it's just one of those things you have to check out yourself to understand. The differences are not hard to hear. Some customers after trying it request it for each mic. I trust their reaction as well. With the feeble signal coming off a capacitor transducer a 7% improvement in conductivity should be audible.

[John Roberts {JR}]

Jim Williams wrote on Fri, 05 June 2009 09:11

Those and ring connected capsules, it really doesn't matter. The pure silver is the sonic difference that I hear over copper. As usual, it's just one of those things you have to check out yourself to understand. The differences are not hard to hear. Some customers after trying it request it for each mic. I trust their reaction as well. With the feeble signal coming off a capacitor transducer a 7% improvement in conductivity should be audible.

For the sake of understanding is that 7% change in conductivity relative to the wire you replaced?  If wiki is to be trusted the nominal difference for equal cross sectional area is < 6% and presumably well less than 1dB for simple amplitude change.

How is this audible to you? It isn't obvious to me that 7% change in conductivity should be so plainly audible.

JR

[Andy Peters]

At the risk of dragging this thread down, I should point out that anyone with even modestly-functioning ears can tell the difference between Wire's Pink Flag elpee and their later Ideal Copy.

Of course you all should own copies of both. Just sayin'.

Milling through the grinder, and grinding through the mill,
-a

[volki]

andy, are you talking about anything US-specific? at least, me being from europe, i have no idea what those names are about

[John Roberts {JR}]

Google is your friend

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pink_Flag

JR

[dcollins]

Andy Peters wrote on Fri, 05 June 2009 23:22

At the risk of dragging this thread down, I should point out that anyone with even modestly-functioning ears can tell the difference between Wire's Pink Flag elpee and their later Ideal Copy.

Is the difference due to the Vp of the cables in use?


DC

[Darius van H]

All this tech talk is complete japanese to me - but i always find it interesting that these "differences" are usually "not subtle" or "night & day" or whatever...........i never see anyone saying: "the difference, if any, was extremely small and it could also be that i imagined it"

[dcollins]

Darius van H wrote on Sat, 06 June 2009 15:13

All this tech talk is complete japanese to me - but i always find it interesting that these "differences" are usually "not subtle" or "night & day" or whatever...........i never see anyone saying: "the difference, if any, was extremely small and it could also be that i imagined it"

Or:

"My mod was worse than stock, the original designers must have known what they were doing."

DC

[Andy Peters]

dcollins wrote on Sat, 06 June 2009 14:34

Andy Peters wrote on Fri, 05 June 2009 23:22 At the risk of dragging this thread down, I should point out that anyone with even modestly-functioning ears can tell the difference between Wire's Pink Flag elpee and their later Ideal Copy. Is the difference due to the Vp of the cables in use?

No, the songs were longer on the later material.

-a

[bruno putzeys]

Darius van H wrote on Sun, 07 June 2009 00:13

All this tech talk is complete japanese to me - but i always find it interesting that these "differences" are usually "not subtle" or "night & day" or whatever...........i never see anyone saying: "the difference, if any, was extremely small and it could also be that i imagined it"

It's something I find myself reporting quite often. I don't always have the time for a proper DBT but I do keep mindful of how large a difference a five minute break makes to perceived quality and anything smaller than that gets ruthlessly classified as "below the psychology barrier". If I really must know whether something makes a small but real difference (as in a bypass test), it's worth organising a controlled test anyway.
Anyone used to "day and night differences" should do the following: run a 1.5 minute snippet of orchestral music three times back to back. Have 5 minutes silence. Rerun the music. Guaranteed better defined stereo image, more fluid, less distorted sound. Etc.

dcollins wrote on Sun, 07 June 2009 00:55

Or: "My mod was worse than stock, the original designers must have known what they were doing." DC

That's happened a few times too, having to take back a mod because the result wasn't to my liking.

[Barry Hufker]

I find that if I never listen to music, it is more fluid, better imaging, less distortion, etc.  The speakers just seem to disappear.


I have the best listening system ever!


Barry

[David Bock]

Quote:

Darius van H wrote on Sun, 07 June 2009 00:13 All this tech talk is complete japanese to me - but i always find it interesting that these "differences" are usually "not subtle" or "night & day" or whatever...........i never see anyone saying: "the difference, if any, was extremely small and it could also be that i imagined it"

Ummm.....true it doesn't make the headlines but I have seen it happen, but only by the most educated users.

Quote:

dcollins wrote on Sun, 07 June 2009 00:55 Or: "My mod was worse than stock, the original designers must have known what they were doing." DC

I've done this but never posted about it. Never will!!

[zmix]

Andy Peters wrote on Sat, 06 June 2009 02:22

At the risk of dragging this thread down, I should point out that anyone with even modestly-functioning ears can tell the difference between Wire's Pink Flag elpee and their later Ideal Copy. Of course you all should own copies of both. Just sayin'. Milling through the grinder, and grinding through the mill, -a

Well, I've always felt that there was a greater difference between Pink Flag and 154, though both were produced by Mike Thorne...

[Larrchild]

I find that working with a particular piece of gear, after a few days, it starts to wear it's signature into my brain and I can hear further small refinements more easily. A week away and I have to start again.

[MDM,]

the big difference in my experience is to stay away from multi-strand wire.

I believe that the problem lies in the fact that the thin strands which are bunched up are connected to each other because they are touching but they are subject to false contact throughout the length of the wire, because of oxidization, dirt and other reasons.

in the end, you get the sum of the various contact-distortion caused by each individual strand.

you can hear this on old guitar cables which 'crunch' when you handle them.

solid copper does not have these problems

I have yet to try silver but I probably will.


one very quick way of hearing a difference in imaging when changing wire on speakers is to try ordinary phone wire, or multi strand phone wire..

you can also wire three or four (or more) insulated phone wires in parallel to get a lower impedance.

I've found that it is superior to run-of-the-mill multi-strand 'speaker wire'