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Author Topic: Equipment ergonomics  (Read 56479 times)

jdg

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Re: Equipment ergonomics
« Reply #135 on: September 05, 2010, 01:43:51 PM »

My previous 26" LCD was on a movable arm, so once I had a buddy come in a move the LCD while music played.  The difference was not small, and is why I had the LCD off to side for long.  But alas, my neck couldn't take it and went back to having it out front.  

Now that LCD tvs are relatively cheap, having it in front, but out of the stereo field is a HUGE win for my setup at least.
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john mcCaig
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Andy Krehm

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Re: Equipment ergonomics
« Reply #136 on: September 05, 2010, 03:08:44 PM »

jdg wrote on Sun, 05 September 2010 13:43

My previous 26" LCD was on a movable arm, so once I had a buddy come in a move the LCD while music played.  The difference was not small, and is why I had the LCD off to side for long.  But alas, my neck couldn't take it and went back to having it out front.  

Now that LCD tvs are relatively cheap, having it in front, but out of the stereo field is a HUGE win for my setup at least.

Have you been able to ascertain any sonic downsides to your setup as Andrew seems to imply?

I should also say that my speakers have the tweeters in the middle and the base of the speaker is actually on the same plane as the top of my monitor. Also, when the room was designed, the designer was extremely careful with placement of desk and monitors based on his measurement of reflections.

However that doesn't mean it wouldn't be an improvement to move the monitor so I will try having it moved while listening.

urm eric

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Re: Equipment ergonomics
« Reply #137 on: September 05, 2010, 03:23:49 PM »

I know it's still not popular, and I'm certainly not preaching for it, but the old - everything behind you - still works the best for me. I've worked that way for many years now. I got a new sterling-type console this week and tried it in front of me but it *felt* wrong as well as sounding less good than the prairie option. Of course, moving speakers would have made a difference - but active ATC 50's aren't a one-man lift ...

I now have a backwards sweet-spot and swing around 180 degress in the chair for proper listening. Ergonomically much better than what I had before with no downside, except the occasional slight dizziness when I misjudge the swing speed ...

I think you can and do get used to pretty much anything, our perceptual system is wonderfully adaptive and if you're used to other ways then changing to any `theoretically better' way might not work at all.

Cheers,

Eric
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jdg

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Re: Equipment ergonomics
« Reply #138 on: September 05, 2010, 03:30:53 PM »

Sure, I'm sure my duns would sound better with no other furniture in the room at all, but then I'd have to get plastic surgery to minimize the reflections from my nose.  My DIY solution is to grow a beard to introduce some diffusion around my face.

Srsly tho, there is no doubt my large 46" LCD has an acoustical downside, even if it is flush with my speakers.   It's good for now, until holodeck mastering is invented
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john mcCaig
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Andy Krehm

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Re: Equipment ergonomics
« Reply #139 on: September 05, 2010, 03:50:10 PM »

jdg wrote on Sun, 05 September 2010 15:30

Sure, I'm sure my duns would sound better with no other furniture in the room at all, but then I'd have to get plastic surgery to minimize the reflections from my nose.  My DIY solution is to grow a beard to introduce some diffusion around my face.

Srsly tho, there is no doubt my large 46" LCD has an acoustical downside, even if it is flush with my speakers.   It's good for now, until holodeck mastering is invented

Try a beard and a custom nose cone! Works for me. Slope shoulders and ear extensions are good. Mostly I master lying on the floor and that works best Laughing !

Srsly tho, if I were to do this, I'd put the monitor on the back wall so about 2 1/2, 3 feet farther back from the front of the speakers. Why did you go for the flush arrangment?

bblackwood

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Re: Equipment ergonomics
« Reply #140 on: September 05, 2010, 04:34:59 PM »

jdg wrote on Sun, 05 September 2010 14:30

Srsly tho, there is no doubt my large 46" LCD has an acoustical downside, even if it is flush with my speakers.   It's good for now, until holodeck mastering is invented

Depends - if the front wall is already reflective and you mount the monitor to said wall, the acoustic impact is probably negligible.
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Brad Blackwood
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mcsnare

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Re: Equipment ergonomics
« Reply #141 on: September 05, 2010, 05:34:06 PM »

I have the monitor sunk into the desk, straight in front of me. It's awesome. I don't think I could go back to having it on the side and I don't like the idea of a huge flat screen on the front wall.

Dave

jdg

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Re: Equipment ergonomics
« Reply #142 on: September 05, 2010, 08:51:27 PM »

For some reason, I want to say flush with the speaker face is the least damning... Just a feeling, could be totally wrong.

I have diffusion with absorption on my front wall, so maybe the LCD is not a big deal so far frontwards.  It's all really room specific for sure
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john mcCaig
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Bonati

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Re: Equipment ergonomics
« Reply #143 on: September 05, 2010, 11:20:00 PM »

We have the screen rackmounted in the Sterling (3 bay) desk. Best setup I've ever had. So easy - no viewing angle problems and you only have to look down with your eyes, not your whole head. Using a KVM switch for the two computers. I'm facing straight ahead at the speakers for the entire session.

It would be nice to have the 2-bay Sterling desk for a smaller acoustical footprint but I've decided that the racked screen is a "pro" that outweighs that "con".
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Josh Bonati
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Greg Reierson

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Re: Equipment ergonomics
« Reply #144 on: September 06, 2010, 07:57:46 PM »

bblackwood wrote on Sat, 04 September 2010 16:01

Viitalahde wrote on Sat, 04 September 2010 15:52

Greg's post gives just "no message body", which seems to sometimes be a common error here. Anyone else seeing that?

That typically happens when someone posts something then deletes it.


Yeah, I replied and then realized it was an old thread to which I had made the same response a while back. I tried to fumble my way through deleting the post on my iPhone without success. Sorry for the bandwidth...


GR
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Andrew Hamilton

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Re: Equipment ergonomics
« Reply #145 on: September 07, 2010, 02:13:17 AM »

Bonati wrote on Sun, 05 September 2010 23:20

We have the screen rackmounted in the Sterling (3 bay) desk. Best setup I've ever had. So easy - no viewing angle problems and you only have to look down with your eyes, not your whole head. Using a KVM switch for the two computers. I'm facing straight ahead at the speakers for the entire session.

It would be nice to have the 2-bay Sterling desk for a smaller acoustical footprint but I've decided that the racked screen is a "pro" that outweighs that "con".


It's "pro" hibited in our auditorium, as our floor plan's short wall is your floor plan's long'n, and vice versa...  A triple-wide would be not much narrower than the 8014 frame we retired, which is a pro (enough) mixing console, to be sure.  Whereas the "con" sideration we provide acoustical matters should be paramount.   Rolling Eyes

I did try mastering with the console behind me, the way Dave Davis used to do in the old QCA Mastering Room.  It was a great solution, hiding in plain sight (or not)...  ZoZ (Zero obstruction zone).

Doug Sax still uses this approach in his new, money-no-object room...  However, I do like facing the speakers while turning the knobs, rather than going back and forth.  Having heard the room both ways, now, I am more attuned to the shading/glare components of the console's presence.  Must say that the Sterling open frame, with panty hose on the gaps, is inspired.  Lots more sound surrounding one.



Also, if I let my glasses ride on the end of my nose, I actually don't have to nod my head in order to read the display on the floor, between my feet.  I josh you, not.   Surprised If I don't let the glasses ride down, I do have to tilt my head a bit, but then I can keep it right there, without titling my head back up in order to look ahead (...at the speakers - as if they are going anywhere!)...

 Not so sure there's much of a sonic hit when looking downward at a slight angle (between my legs, with no obstruction (twss!)) compared to looking forward at a screen that is in the way...  Also, when the segment is looping, there's no need to look at the screen (so it shouldn't be in the way!)....

As I wrote, before, it's easily placeable on the desktop, if editing or other viewing is more important than acoustics.    But I figure, it's either put it on the floor, or put it behind (one)...  


I actually have been flirting with the idea of removing one of the pods in my 2-bay and going narrow to minimize the acoustic obstruction.  I'd have to reduce the number of rack items, but that might be good...  Just two eqs and two comps... I really like the custom bolster/wrist pad, but I could probably make something similar... or ask Ron...  




Andrew
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Waltz Mastering

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Re: Equipment ergonomics
« Reply #146 on: September 07, 2010, 08:18:13 AM »

Bonati wrote on Sun, 05 September 2010 23:20

We have the screen rackmounted in the Sterling (3 bay) desk. Best setup I've ever had. So easy - no viewing angle problems and you only have to look down with your eyes, not your whole head. Using a KVM switch for the two computers. I'm facing straight ahead at the speakers for the entire session.

It would be nice to have the 2-bay Sterling desk for a smaller acoustical footprint but I've decided that the racked screen is a "pro" that outweighs that "con".

I customized my desk a while ago to have the monitor mounted at the same angle as you and Dave M mentioned the Sterling having.  Unobtrusive and works great.

TotalSonic

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Re: Equipment ergonomics
« Reply #147 on: September 07, 2010, 11:29:48 AM »

Got to visit Ed Littman's studio over the Labor Day weekend for a really great bbq and jam session - and checked out a couple of things relevant to this thread.

First - the Buzz REQ 2.2 has truly excellent ergonomics (with the only downside being the fact that it is 4RU) and sounded amazing.  Really didn't want to rekindle any kind of gear lust as I've been really happy with my setup of late - but this one did it.

Second - he had two cinema screens on the front wall - and while I really liked that this opened up and uncluttered the space around the desk - I found myself kind of squinting a bit and didn't really feel all that comfortable with this setup.  It's possible that I could get used to this over a little bit of time - but my eye sight isn't all that great (even though my glasses prescription is recent) so seeing this kind of setup in person convinced me that I don't really want to do it for myself.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

lowland

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Re: Equipment ergonomics
« Reply #148 on: September 07, 2010, 11:50:23 AM »

Waltz Mastering wrote on Tue, 07 September 2010 13:18

I customized my desk a while ago to have the monitor mounted at the same angle as you and Dave M mentioned the Sterling having.  Unobtrusive and works great.

This interests me - is there a rackmount frame one can buy to install an existing monitor, or does it need to be a custom job?
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Nigel Palmer
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pmx

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Re: Equipment ergonomics
« Reply #149 on: September 07, 2010, 01:34:09 PM »

my post seems to have vanished Smile

my current setup is to have a 40" monitor mounted on the sideWALL behind the reflection point. it works very good acoustic wise, but the swinging to the side doesn't feel right. i've considered a smaller monitor on a lcd arm that i can put 'under' the acoustic field when not needed, but i'm not so sure this would work well.

i like josh's solution, seen it several times but my main concern is that all outboard lives a few feet away. isn't that a problem, ie when trying to reach for the outer knobs on an eq. any opinions on that? i'd like to be able to reach them without moving my chair.
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