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Author Topic: IMP21 discussion  (Read 12726 times)

Podgorny

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Re: IMP21 discussion
« Reply #45 on: May 14, 2009, 01:22:47 am »

And because people have asked...

Kick In > D112 > API 512 > API 550B > LT Sound CLX-2
Kick Out > Lawson FET47 > API 512 > DBX 160
Snare Top > Yamaha MZ-205 > API 312 > API 550B > LT Sound CLX-2
Snare Bottom > Shure KSM-137 > API 312 > GML 8200 > DBX 160
OHs > Neumann M269c > API 312 > API 560B > Urei 1176
Hi Hat > Shure SM-81 > API 312
Ride > Shure KSM-137 > API 312
Toms > AKG C414 > API 312 > API 550B
Close Rooms > Royer R-121 > API 312 > Manley Massive Passive > Neve 33609
Far Rooms > Gefell UM92 > API 312

Guitars were mostly a Gibson Les Paul, and some high-end Epiphone semi-hollow with burstbuckers.  Amps were A Marshall JCM2000 TSL, a Mesa Boogie DC-5 and an Epiphone Valve Junior.

Vocals were all SM7.
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"Nobody cares what the impedance is; all they care about is when you can walk into the room, set up a mic, turn the knobs, hit record, and make everybody go 'wow.'"

imdrecordings

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Re: IMP21 discussion
« Reply #46 on: May 14, 2009, 02:55:09 am »

I'm no pro, so please take my critiques with a grain of salt.
It appears that I missed the deadline for the submission thread, but was able to get a some what completed mix uploaded.
I didn't have much time to play around.
In fact I did this mix in a panic with 12pm closing in and my vocal suffered! I second guessed something like a dumb ass...
AH!!!!  

My one wish for my mix is 2db more of the vocal! Confused
Any who, thanks J and Kyle.

     ************************************************************

IMP21_Gio.mp3:
Vocal seems high in the mix.
I like the relationship you got with th vocals.
Kind of reminds me of a mix I might find in an 80's tenn movie or TV show.
Plate Verb on drums?

JonahAKort_IMP21.mp3:
Toms sound great.
I'd like to hear the room more.  I really like the vocal tone, but I miss the dirty grindy bass and roomy drums that are great for this genre.
Kick is a tad high, sounds seprate from the rest of the mix and a bit too basketbally for me.

IMP21_graham.mp3:
Oooh.  I like the roomy sound of everything.
Vocals seem to high in the mix, if these got pulled back this mix would sound sup uber cool.
Quite the unique break down.

IMP21Nizzle.mp3:
I can hear a Gate opening.
Vocals could be pulled back more.
Backup woo's sound great.
There seems to be a weird resonance that pops out every so often.
I Like the distorted break down and the outro male back up vocals.

IMP21_Stretch97317.mp3:
Wow! Weird Mix.  Kick on the left snare on the right, toms in the center and a
super loud vocal.  I don't know what to say about this one.

IMP_21_Fiasco.mp3:

Cool tight toms.
I kind of like the raw edge this has.
Kick needs some restraint.
I hear some weird resonance in the guitars, mainly the one on the left.
Break down is cool.

IMP21_Podgorny.mp3:
Great mix.
In your face and clear!
If I had to be picky...
I think the vocal needs riding.
It seems too high for my taste, in some parts.
Kick sample sounds kind of floppy in some places.
I kinda of don't like the samples chosen.

imp21_h2o.mp3:
Some phasing in the cymbals, maybe.
Snare has distortion?  Maybe gating before distortion would clean up the dirty phasy thing in the drums.
Vocals sound good.  A bit Kick heavy.  
I'm not a fan of obvious chorus on guitars.
But all in all a interesting sounding mix.

IMP21-grantis.mp3:
Good work.
I like the tone of the Vocal, but it's a little hi for my taste.
It almost sounds like a bus compressor is chomping down on the music, because the vocal is slamming into it.

IMP21_Ylab.mp3:
Good sounding mix and balance.
I could use some more roomy sound on the drum/snare.
I miss the tapping guitars in the middle of the song, could be louder.
a tad kick heavy or it could use some EQing.
But a good sounding mix.

IMP21JHall.mp3:
Great sounding mix.
This is the vocal sound I would like to be able to achieve. (nice and tight, with little no sibilance)
A bit of Sub processing being added?  Sounds like it.
I always love J's cymbals sound.
It needs fader riding and and fine tuning.

IMP21-EricH.mp3:
Could use some low end from the bass maybe.
I really like the the mid range of the music.
Vocals seem too up front and need pulling back and quite possibly some Verb or Delay.
Guitars sound great.
Snare sounds great.  Good work.

IMP21_IMDRecordings.mp3:((Time for MINE!))

I had a problem with the sibilance of the vocal.
Consequently, it's a bit too low in the mix IMO.
I like the tonality of my mix, but I needed more time with the vocal. Just 2db more and I'd be there. not!
The Low end might be a tiny bit rumbly and the guitars a tad to edgy maybe...... hmmmmm

IMP21BOEDOCONSTRICTOR.mp3:

I like the effect thing in the beginning.
I'm hearing guitar parts I haven't heard before.  Were thos always there? Wow!
ha!  I had a feeling this breakdown would be interesting!  
Good sounding vocal and a over all mix.
Could be more in your face and driving, for this genre.


IMP 21_-_iCombs.mp3:

good sounding mix and fun....
great to finally here someone take some big/weird chance
However you made the band sound goofy.
If that's there thing.. than I guess that's a good thing.

IMP21_Rankus.mp3:
Loud mix! Wow Rick!
Interesting sounding.
Kick could use EQing maybe, for me.
I like the Strong Vocal.
Snares removed on the break down?
Good sounding mix.


IMP 21 DREW (master).mp3

Nice and clear.
an over all great job.
Mix could use some samples on kick and snare.
But I'm just being picky.
Great Job.






 









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Chris Ilett

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Re: IMP21 discussion
« Reply #47 on: May 14, 2009, 10:37:57 am »

Sorry guys. As I said, new software, but I actually thought I'd accounted for this. Haven't had a problem with anything else, but I messed that up.

However...


Podgorny wrote on Thu, 14 May 2009 00:10


CILETT
There's always one.





This is meant to be a learning process. It appears I offended you.

I've learnt two things now...  Rolling Eyes


FWIW I think it rocks a bit slower.

Jonah A. Kort

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Re: IMP21 discussion
« Reply #48 on: May 14, 2009, 10:49:37 am »

Dude my kick is ruining my mix....Damn... Confused
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Podgorny

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Re: IMP21 discussion
« Reply #49 on: May 14, 2009, 12:30:23 pm »

Chris Ilett wrote on Thu, 14 May 2009 09:37


This is meant to be a learning process. It appears I offended you.





Dude.  I'm not offended AT ALL.
You're right.  This IS a learning process.  And we've all had to learn some things by trial and error.  Not a problem.

And no, it's not better  at 44.1.
Haha.



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"Nobody cares what the impedance is; all they care about is when you can walk into the room, set up a mic, turn the knobs, hit record, and make everybody go 'wow.'"

Gio

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Re: IMP21 discussion
« Reply #50 on: May 14, 2009, 12:52:33 pm »

Podgorny wrote on Thu, 14 May 2009 01:10

GIO
Not bad.  Spend more time making stuff sound good and less time editing out snare hits.



So had I not wasted the 1/2 sec. it took to remove a single snare hit, the mix would have turned out better?  Twisted Evil

Just foolin'! Care to elaborate?  Cool

I'll give all the others a listen tonight.

Thanks,
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Press record. Enjoy!

graham

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Re: IMP21 discussion
« Reply #51 on: May 14, 2009, 02:53:16 pm »

Here are my notes.  This has been a good learning experience--good job everyone.  Interesting how we hear so differently.



GIO
Nice and big.  Good job on the vocals.  Gets a little fatiguing in the low mids.  A little hard and forward.

GRAHAM
Ha, I guess I did get the vocal too forward.  It was a good bit of work getting rid of the crazy 10k sibilance.  Normally a harsh vocal like this would make me push it back in the mix too much, and I overcompensated.  What can I say, I like big deep drum ambience.  On this listening I would trim some low mids back, and make things more aggressive.  I'm not a fan of bright.

H20
Oddly mid forward, hollow and constricted across the board.  I like the filter/distortion on the vocal as a way to treat it, but too honky for me.  Bit slammed.  The backing vocals are fairly lost.

IMDRECORDINGS
Big and full.  A bit slammed, but not harsh.  Tom attack sounds odd.  Vocal seems a bit buried.  Guitar low mids are covering them up?  I like the breakdown.  Pretty good but I would like more dynamics in the rest of the song.


PODGORNY
Good.  BD sample is interesting, it sometimes overtakes the snare, and is a bit disconnected.  The mix fatigues me, which just shows how I hear things.  I'm curious what monitors were used.  Not enough bass for my tastes.  Everything is nicely placed, but too slammed to have much depth other than snare and BGV.  YMMV.

RANKUS
Pretty good size.  Snare and toms are a little tubby.  Interesting/curious loss of the guitars.  Some huffiness to the vocals.

YLAB
Intro -- kind of cool -- yet also reminds me of an FX buffer that didn't clear before bouncing.  BD is out front.  I like the bass/guitar fullness, though it gets to be a bit much later in the song.  Good job on the vocals, though still sibilant.


BOEDOCONSTRICTOR
Choked snare.  Something is funny with the cymbals.  Cool aggressiveness to the guitars.  Vocals are pretty good.  We had similar ideas on the breakdown... nice impact on the return.

CILETT
Well, a bold choice.  Smile  Low mids need cleaning up to me.


ERICH
Nice aggressiveness.  Bright.  I miss the bass relative to the brightness.  Argh, the sibilance.  Bit slammed and makes my ears retreat after a while.


GRANTIS
Good impact, but drum attack almost too plastic.  Too much mids in spots.  Sounds like a lot of compression.


JHALL
I dig the way the guitars pump.  Not sure I like the snare comp -- hard and up front (sounds better in the intro).  That's a lot of cymbals.  Good impact but the drums seem a little small in places.  Vocal could use a little riding.  Overall the compression seems to push and pull in good ways and bad to me.  Nice breakdown.  The big tom is cool, but maybe a bit much.


NIZZLE
I like the drum depth, though the snare ring is a bit too much for me later on.  Aggressive guitars. Left guitar a bit resonant.  Balances a little funny on some of the guitar extras.  Good breakdown, though it could pull back for more impact?  


DREW
Big, deep BD.  I like the guitar texture, though I miss the one that's taken out.  Cymbals are a little too much for me.  Good impact on the breakdown, though hearing the drum verb that clearly is a bit odd.


ICOMBS
Depth is cool on the drums, but I think the snare needs more crack.  I wouldn't have thought about those FX.  Vocals too far forward.  Low mids need help.  Cymbal highs are too much for me.


FIASCO
Bright and large.  Good aggression.  I want more bass.  Too much sibilance for me.  I'd like to hear more weight to the snare.  Some guitars are too forward in spots.


Thanks,

Graham
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Chris Ilett

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Re: IMP21 discussion
« Reply #52 on: May 14, 2009, 04:43:52 pm »

Thanks Graham.

Low mids are a real bone of contention for me with my monitoring situation, meaning I really do go and sit in the car for my 'real' mixes - a couple of times over.

I've moved about a fair bit the last couple of years, and currently - referencing material I know well, I figured the low mids need to be a bit over-baring for a good mix for me.

I'm particularly interested in this from everyone elses point of view too.

Some of the others sounded really good on my speakers - no problem, so I obviously need to look into that. I really like IMP, it's of real value to me.

grantis

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Re: IMP21 discussion
« Reply #53 on: May 14, 2009, 04:50:58 pm »

Quote:

Good impact, but drum attack almost too plastic. Too much mids in spots. Sounds like a lot of compression.


Thanks for the feedback!

Can you describe more in depth what you mean by "plastic"?  Also...too much low mid, or high mid? or both?

Is that a lot of GOOD compression or a lot of BAD compression?


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imdrecordings

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Re: IMP21 discussion
« Reply #54 on: May 14, 2009, 05:26:28 pm »

Would anyone care to point out their vocal chain and how they dealt with the sibilance?  Anyone else notice the weird lisp, the vocalist had.  Almost as if she used a "blurps" sound instead of an "eSss", on the outtro of the song.

I struggled with the sibilance.
In fact, I had the vocals just right.
But at the last minute I second guessed myself and thought I could swap the vocal compressor from a UAD LA2A to something much faster, in order to cut down on the 10-12k sibilance.  Mind you I had 2 Dessers going too.    So after swapping out the compressor and tweaking, I looked at the clock and it was 11:57pm! AH!!!!   Hence the reason why my lead vocal sounds like garbage. Dooh!Dumbass!  Lesson learned...
I should have quit while I was ahead and just uploaded what I had. O'well

Any way...

J and Rick, what was your vocal chain and how did you deal with the sibilance?  I thought both of your vocals were superb in wonderfully different ways.


Thanks!
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graham

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Re: IMP21 discussion
« Reply #55 on: May 14, 2009, 05:34:44 pm »

Chris Ilett wrote on Thu, 14 May 2009 15:43


Low mids are a real bone of contention for me with my monitoring situation



Cool, no problem.  Low mids are tough to get right.  I struggle with them every mix.  Power vs. clarity.  Or something like that!  For me the important thing is not giving up. IMP rocks...

Graham  
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Chris Ilett

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Re: IMP21 discussion
« Reply #56 on: May 14, 2009, 05:53:39 pm »

I think there's a thread not too far down about this. Apparently I didn't read it  Very Happy

I get a boom around 130 - 200hz, which is a real pain in the ass.

graham

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Re: IMP21 discussion
« Reply #57 on: May 14, 2009, 06:06:06 pm »

grantis wrote on Thu, 14 May 2009 15:50


Can you describe more in depth what you mean by "plastic"?  Also...too much low mid, or high mid? or both?

Is that a lot of GOOD compression or a lot of BAD compression?



Sure!  Bass drum and snare attack just came across a little clicky in spots to me... not a problem, just a taste thing.  I'm not doing a lot of work in this genre, so take my comments with many grains of salt.  Smile

The vocal has some low mid resonance in how it's processed, and that leads to some harshness here.  I hear a lot of compression/limiting that's holding it in place, but that also brings out the edge (high mid and sibilance).  So some good (control), and some bad (flat and edgy).  But it just depends on what you like to hear.  I'm certainly not an authority on the subject.

Hope that helps!

Graham
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rankus

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Re: IMP21 discussion
« Reply #58 on: May 14, 2009, 06:42:24 pm »

imdrecordings wrote on Thu, 14 May 2009 14:26


J and Rick, what was your vocal chain and how did you deal with the sibilance?  I thought both of your vocals were superb in wonderfully different ways.

Thanks!


Wow thanks!

I'm going from memory here (at home with no net at the studio)

First in the insert chain was Waves De-esser, then into TWO 1176's back to back both set at 20:1 with the knobs at 6 and 6... both running about -10db on the meter followed by 1073 EQ and then a Pultec EQ followed up by another Waves De-esser... Then all that fed out to the board (toft) where it was EQ'd even more...

On the effects side (sends):  A tad of short Plate 140 verb, a bit of long Plate 140, a tad of short echo, a pinch of long echo, some chorus, some doubling using Waves Doubler (23 ms left and 60 ms right),... then out to the board where there was a tad of Space Echo...

Pretty much mangled it into submission with really heavy handed manipulation.

All Universal Audio stuff mentioned were plugs.

Thanks for the interest. Dying to hear what J did!

I hope to be able to have a listen to all the mixes this weekend... just coming off two EP's in a week and a half with crazy deadlines... I'm bushed!



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DCombs

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Re: IMP21 discussion
« Reply #59 on: May 15, 2009, 01:40:07 am »

all righty,

Jhall
I really like the bus compression on the drums, like the way it sucks down on cymbals. i would like to hear a bigger kick. nice lead vocal treatment! guitars sound great, maybe a touch loud; i like hearing loud drums though. (snare was good, just more kickz)

Podgorny
i LOVE the balance for everything! guitars are a bit honky and loud. bg vox are KILLER! the drums feel a little small it would be nice to hear a little more depth. whole mix feels a little "2D". just a little bit more low end would be nice! Great balance for what is here though!

Rankus
lol we're mix brothers with those guitars missing! the snare is a little goofy in the mix; a little too loud. Love the guitars! well placed drums sound good. bass feels great. great mix.

DCombs
oooh a little scooped there buddy! cymbals are a bit bright! vox feel a bit naked. i like the impact from drums, maybe guitars up a hair. low mids feel a little empty.

Grantis
i really dig this! my only beef is that the bass isn't filling up enough of the mix in the mid range. master bus is a bit squishy! the volume automation in the chorus is really noticeable. bigger kick drum would be cool! vocals are a bit honky.

Ylab
i like the drums! the guitar on the left side is a little dull. like the bass treatment. the esses on the vox are kinda harsh. background vocals feel weird to me. overall i like this mix drums might be a hair loud, but then again, i like em loud.

EricH
I initially really like it! the high end a is a bit out of control. it gets a bit harsh. like the guitars a lot! i like the aggression from this mix, although it feels like it's missing a lot in the low end. vocals are a bit loud for me. but it sounds big!

Nizzle
not diggin' the snare very much, but i like the cymbals. great bg vox treatment (the low male vocal at the end is a bit loud). lead line in the verse is a little loud; it covers up the vocals. well placed lead vocals though! i'm digging the distorted vox before the bridge! bass sits well. well done.

Boedoconstrictor
awesome drums, just up the OH a bit! bass is sonically good, which it didn't take up so much space in the mix. left guitar is a little too dull. well done my friend!

Fiasco
snare sounds great, but it is loud! vocals should come up, and get de-essed (easier said than done on these vox). toms, guitars, and bass low mid range up a bit. well done mix, sounds awesome!

Cilett
like everyone else, i think this would sound much better at 44.1. this mix is a little dull, i like the low end, it's very consistent. low mids get a little cloudy.

h2o1
low mids are a bit much. guitars sound good. bass is a little loud. i would like to hear this a little brighter! good mix though, i like the balance.

Gio
mix feels a little hollow. vocals are a bit loud, and uncontrolled. oh's are a little dull in comparison to the vocalist's esses. i would like to hear brighter guitars. also, where did the kick drum go? it got a little buried. i like the omission of the background vocals, helps clear up your mix a bunch.

ICombs
hey bro, bass sounds a bit loud, but that's what you get when a bass player mixes. your drums sound good, although maybe the cymbals are a bit too thin. i like your your kick and snare placement. i like all the effecty drums, although the bus compression gets to be a bit much for me. guitars are nice and bright! vocals sound better than mine, although they are a bit too far in front. other than the the low end being just slightly bloated, this is my favorite mix as of yet.

Graham
i like the way you took the drums. guitars are a bit mushy. and bass has a nice home in your mix. vocals need a little help. i'm not sold. i like the bridge idea, but not executed as cleanly as i would like.



From what i can hear everyone had problems with vocals whether it was balance or eq, this girl is very tricky. this song is kinda falls into place otherwise! well done everyone.
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