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Author Topic: Tom Mics : An Alternative to 421's?  (Read 13062 times)

compasspnt

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Re: Tom Mics : An Alternative to 421's?
« Reply #15 on: March 25, 2009, 11:35:00 am »

Heck, they are only toms.

Surely most of the real sound is coming from more distant microphones.

Just go with the Karma teenie-weenies.

K-Micro Silver Bullet Drum Pak.

7 mics, 7 clips, case, $80, done.

http://www.karmamics.com/products.html


index.php/fa/11744/0/
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Vertigo

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Re: Tom Mics : An Alternative to 421's?
« Reply #16 on: March 25, 2009, 12:57:33 pm »

Rankus - what tom mic's are you upgrading from (what are you currently using)?

Quote:

Heck, they are only toms.

Surely most of the real sound is coming from more distant microphones.


Another great point as usual! I have plenty of options for toms - 421's, D19C's, D119's, RE20's, e604's, and a Royer-mod tube LDC that makes large floor toms sound as if they're being played by God himself. I find that I can get a great sound of any of them, but while the 604's are certainly the cheapest of all these options, I find that I still use them all the time. They're convenient, they place easily, they can take a beating like a red-headed SM57, they always sound great, and they have this ability to get really good sounds out of really crappy toms.

While the 604's are a bit "vanilla" and more expensive options can produce marginally better results (which may or may not be important depending on the situation), I find that the 604's ALWAYS deliver and I've never had any problem getting great tom sounds out of them. In fact, I think they can compensate for poor quality toms like no other mic's in my collection.

I'm not a fan of Audix drum mic's. To my ears they "self-EQ" so that you always get a good sound from them, but it's always the SAME sound. I think this makes them extremely easy for novice engineers to use, but I think most people would probably tend to outgrow them quickly.

-Lance
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tom eaton

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Re: Tom Mics : An Alternative to 421's?
« Reply #17 on: March 25, 2009, 02:33:21 pm »

The Audix D3 is the exception in my experience.  A very nice relatively even sounding mic.

t

Fig

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Re: Tom Mics : An Alternative to 421's?
« Reply #18 on: March 25, 2009, 02:43:07 pm »

compasspnt wrote on Mon, 23 March 2009 15:34

Almost anything is a better alternative than a 421.


I think you refer to today's approximation of a 421, Terry??

An early MD-421 is quite impressive on toms (among other things).

But if you are advising against buying a new one - I'd say +1.

For close mic'ing toms - I am still very fond of the SM98, with a Beta98 following close-enough behind.

I just got my hands on a handful of e906s - looking forward to trying them out soon.  I assisted a fella recently who used KM84s on toms.  Original u87s work ok, too.  UM70, etc.  I still like D112 on floor toms.

More often than not, though, my preferred tom sounds are coming from more distant mics.

$0.02,

Fig

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rankus

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Re: Tom Mics : An Alternative to 421's?
« Reply #19 on: March 25, 2009, 02:55:24 pm »

Hi All.  Thanks for the great input.  I love this place!

I'll try to answer a few of the questions from memory.

I'm upgrading from Sen 421's  which after some soul searching and researching I can honestly say that I think they are completely over rated and over priced.

I agree with Terry when he says "they are only toms".  I'm not really into huge tom sounds and I rarely put much effort into working on them in the mix (I like em pretty natural)

tom eaton wrote on Mon, 23 March 2009 18:47


The tom thread:

   http://recforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/m/309615/2571/?sr ch=tom#msg_309615

(edit- Hey- you say in that thread that you like the ATM25!  You shoulda bought them then!)

tom


Thanks for the link Tom.  I had tried to find it using search but I'm not so good with the search function.

After revisiting JJ's shootoutI agree with you (and my past self) ... I picked #3 again... and actually found the 57 to sound acceptable.... I wonder if a 57 transformer mod from Oliver may be the route if I can't find any #3's on the bay due to these threads driving up prices grrrr.

I had a drummer bring in a set of those Senn e604 clip on tom mics a year ago and found that despite the price and my prejudice they worked quite well.

So I think those are going to be my three choices for my shortlist for now. With #3 from the shootout being the ones I want the most.

Marcel and Derek,  Thank you for the offer to loan me some mics.  Most appreciated, and I may take you up on it if we don't buy soon, or we change our minds on the shortlisted ones.  



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Vertigo

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Re: Tom Mics : An Alternative to 421's?
« Reply #20 on: March 25, 2009, 06:00:48 pm »

Quote:

I had a drummer bring in a set of those Senn e604 clip on tom mics a year ago and found that despite the price and my prejudice they worked quite well.


My experience exactly! Clip them on, point them at the center of the tom, and hit record. You'll get a workable sound every time. And despite being far cheaper, I do like them a bit better than my 421's. And they can take a LOT more abuse (I've got a smashed up 421 lying in my workshop now that I'm not quite sure what to do with).

But then again, it's only toms we're talking about here...

-Lance
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MagnetoSound

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Re: Tom Mics : An Alternative to 421's?
« Reply #21 on: March 25, 2009, 09:58:38 pm »

Only toms, only toms ...!

D'you think they said 'only toms' when they made Dark Side Of The Moon?!


(I'll second the U87 and the 201.)
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bigbone

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Re: Tom Mics : An Alternative to 421's?
« Reply #22 on: March 26, 2009, 08:50:46 am »



''only toms''......... if there are not important, don't mic them !!!!!
If you choose to mic them, like any other sources, mic them properly
or don't mic them, there are no ''second class'' source of sound.
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organica

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Re: Tom Mics : An Alternative to 421's?
« Reply #23 on: March 26, 2009, 09:53:34 am »

if the choice boiled down to 57's or or KEL HM-1's , I'd likely go with the 57's for toms . The KEL's do neat things though  .


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0dbfs

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Re: Tom Mics : An Alternative to 421's?
« Reply #24 on: March 26, 2009, 02:27:27 pm »

I've got a handful of 421's that I use for toms but I will also often use an ATM25 or D112 for a floor.

I do like condensers (recently tried km184s, nt1's, u89) although I have found them to be pretty hot to tape.. Usually necessitating an inline pad.

Cheers,
j
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Jonathan Burtner
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rankus

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Re: Tom Mics : An Alternative to 421's?
« Reply #25 on: March 26, 2009, 02:47:02 pm »

rankus wrote on Wed, 25 March 2009 11:55



I had a drummer bring in a set of those Senn e604 clip on tom mics a year ago and found that despite the price and my prejudice they worked quite well.



Well I pulled out this session and had a listen last night.  Seems memory is through rose colored glasses in this case.  Upon a second assessment I think I will not purchase these mics. They are "OK"


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Larry Villella

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Re: Tom Mics : An Alternative to 421's?
« Reply #26 on: March 26, 2009, 05:13:40 pm »



I personally used MD-421 for decades.

From the feedback I've gotten from clients,
the ADK S-51 is a particularly great Tom Mic.

The original version (A-51s) was used by everyone
from Spyro Gyra to Megadeth for TOM-TOMS.

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Larry J. Villella, Founder, ADK Microphones

tom eaton

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Re: Tom Mics : An Alternative to 421's?
« Reply #27 on: March 26, 2009, 10:50:14 pm »

So offer to send Rick a pair to try.

Your post otherwise might come across as rather "commercial" in nature.

t

Larry Villella

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Re: Tom Mics : An Alternative to 421's?
« Reply #28 on: March 27, 2009, 11:22:24 am »



Thanks Thomas!

I would, but I don't own the inventory anymore.

I would say my post is more "experiential" than commercial.

Anechdotal evidence from some of the leading drummers that
ADK has recorded, including Joel Rosenblatt and Steve Gadd,
leads me to believe the S-51 is one option for Tom Mics. . .

There are a dozen ADK Dealers that will send folks demo-eval,
but that's up to them, not me.   I'm simply offering my advice
based on 45 years of using and 12 years of building microphones.

Cheers!

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Larry J. Villella, Founder, ADK Microphones

maarvold

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Re: Tom Mics : An Alternative to 421's?
« Reply #29 on: March 28, 2009, 05:43:24 pm »

Fig wrote on Wed, 25 March 2009 11:43

For close mic'ing toms - I am still very fond of the SM98, with a Beta98 following close-enough behind...


I just discovered the Shure SM98A for toms recently because I was forced into it by lack of space for mic stands.  I bought 5 of the mics and the little rim mount gooseneck stands and I'm really liking them (mics and stands) so far.  Unfortunately, the mics are not so easy to find these days; they've been replaced by the Beta 98.  A friend owns Beta 98s and they are definitely NOT the same animal as the SM98.  The SM98s are more natural/chunky-sounding, whereas the Beta 98s, sonically, are a lot more like a condenser version of the ATM-25: sort of 'pre-EQ'ed-sounding' with lots of bottom and top.  I think, as an ATM25 owner, I would slightly prefer the 25s to the Beta 98s.  But I prefer the SM98s to the ATM25s and, also, to the EV RE15s I bought in the interim on my quest for great tom sounds; the SM98s sort of remind me of a condenser version of those.  

FWIW, the SM98s seem to have a tighter pattern than most condensers I've used--I get somewhat enhanced sense of panning as the guy goes around the drums, similar to a dynamic.  
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