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Author Topic: Room ratio X15  (Read 5201 times)

franman

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Re: Room ratio X15
« Reply #15 on: March 20, 2009, 05:40:37 pm »

This is an important point to make on this forum. The reveared "golden" ratios and magical proportions DO NOT work at all rooms sizes. We run independant modal simulations on every set of dimensions we look at. I don't even pay that much attention to the proportions these days, as the 'design' usually dictates the proportions. Of course I'm not going to do 1:2:2.. but my point is, that you HAVE TO run the calculations to sort out the modes and see how you're sitting with regards to Bonello.. Then you need to look at the less signficant (tangential and oblique) modes which are not considered in Bonello and use some experience to determine if the working set of dimensions (and their associated proportions) work well...

1: 1.67: 2.67 isn't enough... It depends on the the dimensions for all the reasons that JimmyJazz lists... good one JJ

Steve Hudson wrote on Thu, 19 March 2009 11:50

jimmyjazz wrote on Wed, 18 March 2009 19:01

Food for thought that won't really help Janek . . . while "ideal" (or at least recommended) room ratios are independent of room size, it's also true that bigger is in general better.  One reason is because a larger room of a given proportionality will experience response "lumpiness" lower in the spectrum than a smaller room will; i.e., the response will be "smooth" in a bigger percentage of the audio spectrum.  But I have also read research on room design (Trevor Cox, perhaps?) that suggests the most ideal ratios vary with room volume.  I need to dig that paper up . . .


I just read a similar study last week which provided different ratios for three different room volumes.

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jimmyjazz

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Re: Room ratio X15
« Reply #16 on: March 20, 2009, 08:12:16 pm »

fran, is Bonello your de facto standard?  Do you use any other "goodness" estimators for a given response?
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Thomas Jouanjean

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Re: Room ratio X15
« Reply #17 on: March 21, 2009, 03:53:50 am »

Same same here... with the type of rooms we build, while I keep the basic ratio theory in mind (no squares or multiples etc) I must say that the geometry of all the rooms I work on are complex and that we work on the modal response in different ways. It's a lot more about how and where we want the energy to spread and how it decays (% on 1st reflections, % on 2nd reflections for ex)

Of course YMMV Smile

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franman

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Re: Room ratio X15
« Reply #18 on: March 22, 2009, 12:20:39 am »

Bonello is a standard, but we look at the distribution of axial, tangential and oblique for the rectangular dimensions, as well as deviations and density graphs that are proprietary. There is some very easy to use software from RPG (Room Sizer, Room Optimizer) that are also quite helpful once you spend some time with them. I've had amazingly accurate results from existing rooms plugged in Optimizer...

Trouble with most of these techniques is they don't allow for absorption beyond the possibility of inputting Absorption Coefficients for overall surfaces..

Of course, as Thomas points out with complex geometry it becomes a whole new ball game and experience has to rule. This is one of the main reasons we preach about rectangular rooms for DIY projects. It keeps the simulations manageable and at least you have a reasonable idea of what to expect.
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Bruno Gouveia

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Re: Room ratio X15
« Reply #19 on: March 22, 2009, 12:48:59 am »


According to the guys at RPG,  1:2,19:3 is one of the best for an optimized low frequency response, which gives a room looking like this, for 125m

franman

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Re: Room ratio X15
« Reply #20 on: March 22, 2009, 03:55:06 pm »

Bruno Gouveia wrote on Sun, 22 March 2009 00:48


According to the guys at RPG,  1:2,19:3 is one of the best for an optimized low frequency response, which gives a room looking like this, for 125m
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jimmyjazz

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Re: Room ratio X15
« Reply #21 on: March 22, 2009, 04:45:27 pm »

I think that layout would make a nice control room.
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Steve Hudson

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Re: Room ratio X15
« Reply #22 on: March 22, 2009, 07:40:27 pm »

jimmyjazz wrote on Sun, 22 March 2009 15:45

I think that layout would make a nice control room.


[never mind]
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Bruno Gouveia

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Re: Room ratio X15
« Reply #23 on: March 23, 2009, 06:49:06 pm »

http://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=13011

Authors:   Cox, Trevor J.; D'Antonio, Peter; Avis, Mark R.

I've the pdf of the article, if anyone wants it I don't mind to forward.

http://damping.tumblr.com/post/51371077/according-to-an-aes- article-of-some-important

franman

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Re: Room ratio X15
« Reply #24 on: March 25, 2009, 10:24:42 pm »

I believe you Bruno.. It's just interesting that this isn't the proportions they use for their test room at the factory... anyway... looks like strange proportions architecturally, to me... nuf said.. Cool
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jimmyjazz

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Re: Room ratio X15
« Reply #25 on: March 27, 2009, 06:31:15 pm »

The ceiling height is low, to be sure, but does the footprint bother you?
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franman

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Re: Room ratio X15
« Reply #26 on: April 02, 2009, 10:12:59 am »

No Jimmy, it's not the footprint, it's the ratio and the way it feels architecturally. I think it would feel like a room where the ceiling is too low.. just not good design mojo.. that's all.

FM
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jimmyjazz

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Re: Room ratio X15
« Reply #27 on: April 03, 2009, 01:12:19 pm »

I routinely mix in a room with a 9 foot ceiling and very good proportions.  It hasn't bothered me in the least.  I guess it's all about where you're coming from!
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franman

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Re: Room ratio X15
« Reply #28 on: April 06, 2009, 11:42:04 am »

nd we routinely design mix rooms with 9' or lower ceilings (have to in NY a lot)... but we still try to have proportions that work acoustically and architecturally... At the end of the day, this room (from this thread) probably isn't that big of a deal (or a problem)... nuf said??

FM
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