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Author Topic: YES! .. File Sharing Bust  (Read 62716 times)

RMoore

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Re: YES! .. File Sharing Bust
« Reply #15 on: March 07, 2009, 03:53:11 PM »

Phil Mayor wrote on Sat, 07 March 2009 21:48

 

It's totally rife worldwide, and generally even accepted as being normal by most teenagers today.



I've been canvassing friend's teenagers for a few years as to their music habits & so far, not single one buys music..its all P2P and 'sharing' in the form of CDR's/files..

Even more so: the idea of buying music seems totally alien & befuddling to them...

The genie is so out of the bottle.



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Bill Mueller

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Re: YES! .. File Sharing Bust
« Reply #16 on: March 07, 2009, 04:10:45 PM »

Phil Mayor wrote on Sat, 07 March 2009 15:48

You'll never stop it unless you shut down the internet. Peer to Peer is just a method of many to share. A server bust with material on it means nothing to be quite honest.

Why PB had stored files of illegal material I'm not sure. They seemed to have been going further than just P2P.

There was an article in a PC magazine I read that said 65% of all under 30 year olds surveyed had 50 gig or more of illegally copied material.

It's totally rife worldwide, and generally even accepted as being normal by most teenagers today.







Philip,

Just because something IS, does not mean it WILL BE. Ask GM.

Best regards,

Bill
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"Don't take it personally. But this shit is a science." J.J.Blair

“The Internet is only a means of communication,” he wrote. “It is not an amorphous extraterrestrial body with an entitlement to norms that run counter to the fundamental principles of human rights. There is nothing in the criminal or civil law which legalizes that which is otherwise illegal simply because the transaction takes place over the Internet.” Irish judge, Peter Charleton

Rail Jon Rogut

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Re: YES! .. File Sharing Bust
« Reply #17 on: March 07, 2009, 04:29:39 PM »

I just wonder if the companies who have software on the server will now sue him civilly for damages...  that's where he'll suffer.

Rail
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Bill Mueller

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Re: YES!
« Reply #18 on: March 07, 2009, 04:53:01 PM »

compasspnt wrote on Sat, 07 March 2009 12:23

Hooray!

Now I get Bill's game for free.

PLUS, there were some cute girls to meet *right in my home town* listed on the site!


Terry,

I have to believe there are LOTS of cute girls in your "home town". Otherwise, what the heck are those beaches for?

Best regards,

Bill
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"Don't take it personally. But this shit is a science." J.J.Blair

“The Internet is only a means of communication,” he wrote. “It is not an amorphous extraterrestrial body with an entitlement to norms that run counter to the fundamental principles of human rights. There is nothing in the criminal or civil law which legalizes that which is otherwise illegal simply because the transaction takes place over the Internet.” Irish judge, Peter Charleton

JDNelson

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Re: YES!
« Reply #19 on: March 07, 2009, 05:22:14 PM »

compasspnt wrote on Sat, 07 March 2009 09:23

PLUS, there were some cute girls to meet *right in my home town* listed on the site!


Spring break?

RSettee

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Re: YES! .. File Sharing Bust
« Reply #20 on: March 07, 2009, 05:43:35 PM »

RMoore wrote on Sat, 07 March 2009 13:44

P-bay is IMO a thoroughly heinous outfit which has in the past displayed total arrogance and no remorse when criticized by labels and artistes...
I'm glad to see them getting some pressure finally.

If you want to know what the PB 'philosophy' is concerning intellectual property theft, check out their every-growing list of cease&desist requests and subsequent condescending replies from PB:

http://thepiratebay.org/legal.php

Its fairly obvious what their attitude is....


The place has got that many threats and hasn't been shut down? Wow.
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Bill Mueller

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Re: YES! .. File Sharing Bust
« Reply #21 on: March 07, 2009, 06:17:49 PM »

Anyone who still believes this file stealing is all about personal freedoms instead of Robber Barons (or would-be Robber Barons) stealing from legal property owners by using kids as their pawns, please watch this video. Pay close attention in the middle where the announcer starts talking about the MULTI MILLION dollar business called Pirate Bay.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uENqtT5AP_w

Best regards,

Bill
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"Don't take it personally. But this shit is a science." J.J.Blair

“The Internet is only a means of communication,” he wrote. “It is not an amorphous extraterrestrial body with an entitlement to norms that run counter to the fundamental principles of human rights. There is nothing in the criminal or civil law which legalizes that which is otherwise illegal simply because the transaction takes place over the Internet.” Irish judge, Peter Charleton

grantis

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Re: YES! .. File Sharing Bust
« Reply #22 on: March 07, 2009, 07:20:10 PM »

RSettee wrote on Sat, 07 March 2009 16:43

RMoore wrote on Sat, 07 March 2009 13:44

P-bay is IMO a thoroughly heinous outfit which has in the past displayed total arrogance and no remorse when criticized by labels and artistes...
I'm glad to see them getting some pressure finally.

If you want to know what the PB 'philosophy' is concerning intellectual property theft, check out their every-growing list of cease&desist requests and subsequent condescending replies from PB:

http://thepiratebay.org/legal.php

Its fairly obvious what their attitude is....


The place has got that many threats and hasn't been shut down? Wow.



That's the beauty of it...it's not a place, it's run by a bunch of people in all different countries on a bunch of different servers.  It's not a corporation, it's a hobby.

Let ye who has nothing "copied" or "shared" of any kind now or at any time in the past cast the first stone.

Mmmhmmm.
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RSettee

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Re: YES! .. File Sharing Bust
« Reply #23 on: March 07, 2009, 08:50:52 PM »

Bill Mueller wrote on Sat, 07 March 2009 17:17

Anyone who still believes this file stealing is all about personal freedoms instead of Robber Barons (or would-be Robber Barons) stealing from legal property owners by using kids as their pawns, please watch this video. Pay close attention in the middle where the announcer starts talking about the MULTI MILLION dollar business called Pirate Bay.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uENqtT5AP_w

Best regards,

Bill


Yep, exactly what I thought--these guys are getting huge cash from advertising. I find it awful ironic that these guys are fancying themselves as a modern day Robin Hood by stealing from the rich, but also refusing to pay content providers, terms like "modern day hero" were mentioned about the guy. They should get sued into oblivion.

As i've mentioned before, I had a brash attitude regarding file sharing and I still apologize for that. I was always for file sharing, provided that if someone liked something, they buy it. That's always what I did. I still do think that file sharing, in a perfect world, could be a good thing, but it's revealed the most basic of human nature--what people will consider morally right when they are allowed to police themselves.

Ironically, I have never heard of The Pirate Bay....Soulseek yes, The Pirate Bay no. And I was NEVER for people making money off of people's content without paying them--I was under the assumption that these were not for profit organizations that just wished to spread the good word about music, but it is clear that with their advertising money, that they are getting filthy rich over the "liberation" from the "corporate greed", and then accepting huge money for advertising. All their advertising money should go back to the artists--but their excuse is likely that "artists are greedy". Well, what about underground bands that have never made any money? No one's ever shared any of those records? I find that hard to believe, because with Touch and Go not signing any new bands and their distro going under (as well as Pinnacle and many other distros), it is clear that people have abused any possible moderation and their issues of entitlement.

It is also clear that people generally do not support the little artist, either, so that is another knife in the back for everyone that I know that is doing great things but are struggling more than ever to make a viable go of it when even the bigger artists are generally ending up as tax writeoffs nowadays.
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MDM,

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Re: YES! .. File Sharing Bust
« Reply #24 on: March 07, 2009, 08:57:50 PM »

I've always said it to anyone who would bother to argue.. file sharing is for brain-dead people who don't understand creative work.  Only failures on a human level approve of stealing intellectual propriety in my personal experience.

it is one of the most horrific manifestations of what's wrong with people, and how utterly removed they are from the creative process, morals, the spirit etc.

there is only one 'crowd' to blame for this, as has been pointed out in the past, and that's the wall-street crowd... who has once again proven to the world that they know better.

and it is YOU who are stealing who have done EXACTLY as they planned!


congrats..
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gwailoh

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Re: YES! .. File Sharing Bust
« Reply #25 on: March 07, 2009, 09:01:13 PM »

Bill Mueller wrote on Sat, 07 March 2009 11:19

marcel wrote on Sat, 07 March 2009 13:28

With all respect, Bill, I don't think telling someone where they can go to find something illegal can ever be considered to have criminal intent.

I can tell you a few street corners in my neighbourhood where you can find crack cocaine.  This does not, however, make me a crack dealer.

If the crack dealers were paying me to tell you, that would be different.  Perhaps this sort of thing is happening between illegal servers and search engines, but I don't know much about it.

Marcel,

If your business added traffic generated by advertising known illegal activities and then benefited from the advertising that resulted from that traffic, I think a pretty good case for complicity could be made.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complicit

Best regards,

Bill


Hi Bill: I'm not a lawyer, but your description of complicity certainly seems to describe both ISPs and backbone bandwidth providers who enable illegal activities by providing the infrastructure they require, and who profit from the fees paid to them by large and small pirates alike.  Perhaps if those with intellectual property to protect were to band together to sue ISPs and telcos, they might be encouraged to shut down P2P ports and etc.

Perhaps this has already been tried, I dunno.  Just thinking about what you wrote.

RSettee

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Re: YES! .. File Sharing Bust
« Reply #26 on: March 07, 2009, 09:03:00 PM »

MDM, wrote on Sat, 07 March 2009 19:57

I've always said it to anyone who would bother to argue.. file sharing is for brain-dead people who don't understand creative work.  Only failures on a human level approve of stealing intellectual propriety in my personal experience.

it is one of the most horrific manifestations of what's wrong with people, and how utterly removed they are from the creative process, morals, the spirit etc.

there is only one 'crowd' to blame for this, as has been pointed out in the past, and that's the wall-street crowd... who has once again proven to the world that they know better.

and it is YOU who are stealing who have done EXACTLY as they planned!


congrats..


Another term that I have for this is that for every David, there is a new Goliath. Once Goliath falls, there will always be a new evil tyrant to take his place. In this case, David was the successor and he's so proficient at prattling on how bad Goliath was and how "liberated" people should now feel, that they fail to realize that the status quo hasn't changed at all since Goliath fell.
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RSettee

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Re: YES! .. File Sharing Bust
« Reply #27 on: March 07, 2009, 09:19:36 PM »

gwailoh wrote on Sat, 07 March 2009 20:01


Hi Bill: I'm not a lawyer, but your description of complicity certainly seems to describe the ISPs who enable illegal activities by providing the bandwidth they require, and who profit from the fees paid to them by large and small pirates alike.  Perhaps if those with intellectual property to protect were to band together to sue ISPs, they might be encouraged to shut down P2P ports and etc.

Perhaps this has already been tried, I dunno.  Just thinking about what you wrote.


This had already came up in another thread where someone that worked for an ISP said that the ISP's are getting hammered by bandwidth hogs and having to upgrade, and asked the question "why do you see no more ISP's popping up?". Which were all good points. That's not to say that the ISP's don't have some part in this, but by the time they realized what was going on, they got sucked into it too.

Is there absolutely, absolutely nothing the ISP's can do? I don't know if I buy that, because they technically probably could have developed tracking software a long time ago. Right now, they issue warnings to offenders, but they could  just shut the internet down and pull their servers, and what would people do about it? They could complain, but the ISP's could just say "tough luck".

The ISP's are like the landlord of the building that file sharers are stealing out of. Eventually the landlord could go down and kick those tenants out, so that as landlords, they are not held accountable for actions that are happening in their premises. Right now, though, the file sharers are going on a dope, guns and fucking in the streets kick, and the landlords aren't quite armed enough to be able to safely get them out of there. Remember, this is the Wild West, and even the sheriff doesn't have the ammo and resources to take on those thugs, the best he can do is say, "hey guys, can you kinda sorta, like, please, uh, stop doing that?". They're laughing in his face.

But get the sheriff some backup--the entertainment industry ready to sue the bejeezus out of bit torrent sites and the like, as well as enough content providers  speaking up and saying "no, it is not alright that you can distribute or do whatever you feel like with our material online". Or even a guy like Bill, who is trying to raise enough ruckus to stand up for what he believes are his rightful dues from his gaming developments. I can only imagine how it burns him up as someone is getting endless thrills from his games, while he sees the store till dry up significantly. "Sorry man, we don't have the money, oh, but by the way, LOVE the game, man!!! The graphics and interplay are really well thought out". How long could you endure that before you snapped?

Right now, the town is being robbed, and the general storekeeper doesn't want to name names of who robbed him in fear of retaliation, same with the blacksmith. This reminds me of a trial where witnesses don't want to come forward to convict the felons, because they're scared of the retaliation.

Similarly, most bands and musicians and labels that want  to talk about this sort of thing don't, because they don't want to be tarred and feathered. Look at Lars Ulrich, even his management and entourage were telling him to shut up and now he's like, "it's alright if you download, really!!". Does he really believe that, or does he just not want Wild Bill Pecos to shoot him in the night sometime when he's asleep?
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Bill Mueller

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Re: YES! .. File Sharing Bust
« Reply #28 on: March 07, 2009, 10:44:11 PM »

grant richard wrote on Sat, 07 March 2009 19:20

RSettee wrote on Sat, 07 March 2009 16:43

RMoore wrote on Sat, 07 March 2009 13:44

P-bay is IMO a thoroughly heinous outfit which has in the past displayed total arrogance and no remorse when criticized by labels and artistes...
I'm glad to see them getting some pressure finally.

If you want to know what the PB 'philosophy' is concerning intellectual property theft, check out their every-growing list of cease&desist requests and subsequent condescending replies from PB:

http://thepiratebay.org/legal.php

Its fairly obvious what their attitude is....


The place has got that many threats and hasn't been shut down? Wow.



That's the beauty of it...it's not a place, it's run by a bunch of people in all different countries on a bunch of different servers.  It's not a corporation, it's a hobby.

Let ye who has nothing "copied" or "shared" of any kind now or at any time in the past cast the first stone.

Mmmhmmm.

Grant,

You could not be more wrong. See the video I posted claiming that PB is a MULTI MILLION DOLLAR COMPANY.

And OK I will cast the first stone. I have opposed (both personally and professionally) file stealing, software piracy, music piracy, movie stealing and any other kind of piracy since before there were "files". If you are confessing to piracy and expecting others to do the same, take it somewhere else.

Best regards,

Bill
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"Don't take it personally. But this shit is a science." J.J.Blair

“The Internet is only a means of communication,” he wrote. “It is not an amorphous extraterrestrial body with an entitlement to norms that run counter to the fundamental principles of human rights. There is nothing in the criminal or civil law which legalizes that which is otherwise illegal simply because the transaction takes place over the Internet.” Irish judge, Peter Charleton

john.reeve

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Re: YES! .. File Sharing Bust
« Reply #29 on: March 07, 2009, 10:52:41 PM »

"Anyone who still believes this file stealing is all about personal freedoms instead of Robber Barons (or would-be Robber Barons) stealing from legal property owners by using kids as their pawns, please watch this video. Pay close attention in the middle where the announcer starts talking about the MULTI MILLION dollar business called Pirate Bay.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uENqtT5AP_w

Best regards,

Bill"

Bill,

This will probably come off as sanctimonious, but it is a sincere question: what should I make of the links to streaming pirated content that are provided on the page you link to?  The content that you reference is provided by "Russia Today" but that is kind of an exception, not the rule.  

The Joe Meek thread and linked documentary is a better example of tolerated piracy.  Is there nothing valuable about the kind of access to content granted by things like youtube, or is all a large project to prevent mid-level monetization of content?

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