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Author Topic: Quick guitar tone  (Read 5382 times)

redelephant

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Quick guitar tone
« on: July 01, 2004, 06:04:49 pm »

Most of my studio projects are super rush. Just about 2 days to track and mix 3 or 4 songs at a time. I usually start with the drums so by the time I get to the guitars my ears are a bit fatigued. With any other instruments I can work like this, but with guitars I usually come in the next day and regret the tones I setup the night prior - but due to time I have to work this way. So do you guys have any do's and don'ts when it comes to mic'ing cabs for general rock music? Do you have steps and procedures that you usually go through before micing a cab? Do you DI and then reamp later if needed? Do you use a POD?

Also I usually find myself usually mic'ing JCM900s and Rectifiers, so any tips to with these certian makes?

I am well aware that every situation is different, but that isn't really my question. I am just curious as to what you normally do when recording rock guitars.
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Bivouac

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Re: Quick guitar tone
« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2004, 01:16:16 am »

Well, everything starts at the amp in my opinion...

High gain players must REALLY back off the gain if they want to sound like anything.  The saturated sound will come from overdubs so they have to be patient...

I also think loud amps sound pretty unnatural close-miked.  A 'fiddyseven on the speaker in combination with something else makes for a LOT of options.

I found slipperman's "Miking distorted guitar" (still unfinished...) thread highly entertaining and informative.  I believe they've moved it to the Guitar forum in the MARSH.
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j.hall

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Re: Quick guitar tone
« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2004, 09:51:19 am »

jcm900......rectifier....

man.....those amps are hard to get a decent sound out of at all, IMO

i agree that the sound starts at the amp

gain is a huge issue

lots of inexperienced players crank the gain knob then wonder when no one can tell what they are playing

the "gain" knob is all about clarity to me

if you have too much, you have no clarity, if you have too little, you have no distortion

as for mic'ing.....

i pick a mic.....any mic, and put it dead center of a speaker aimed right at the dome

change mics till happy, move mic till happy

often times it doesn't move and i just change a few mics till i hear what i want.
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carne_de_res

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Re: Quick guitar tone
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2004, 10:30:52 am »

i wonder how _loud_ the amp should be,since
i typically have mushy results with close
micing super-loud amps...
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j.hall

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Re: Quick guitar tone
« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2004, 11:19:53 am »

only time i get mushy tones are when using condenser mics too close and with the amp too loud
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driskel

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Re: Quick guitar tone
« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2004, 12:00:48 pm »

I agree with what has been said, It comes down to amp, guitar, player combination first.

Guitar ands Amp matching is first and foremost.

Lately, for myself guitar recording has been getting easier and easier, the hard part is when working with others trying to get them to understand that a particular guitar choice is not the most appropriate for the song.   IE, I want to play my Les Paul, but you are looking for a country pop of the strings (light gauge telecaster).

As for a quick amp setup for Rock and Roll, A Marshall JCM800 or Fender Deluxe is quick for me.  As a guitar player I have been playing both of those amps for about 20 years now.  Also getting the speaker cabinet off the floor really seems to help.

Too much gain can get in the way of a good recorded guitar tone.  I always print DI as well as amp for safety, if has saved me countless times.   Also taming the low end content is very important at the amp.

As per Micing and Pre choices I tend to go with a B&O ribbon mic approx 12" -16" (depends on volume of amp) from the cabinet and twist the mic for eq into a Neve 1272.  I really favor ribbon mics on guitar amps.

5 minutes and away we go.

~driskel
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meverylame

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Re: Quick guitar tone
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2004, 03:11:18 pm »

I think the guitar itself maybe the most important piece of gear. Followed closely by amp.
What really bothers me is when a guy comes in with a crappy guitar and won't use anything else.

I had one guy that brought in a couple of reference cds, mostly modern rock stuff (Thursday, Thrice, etc.). Day of recording he brings in danelectro, and will not let go of it, despite I had 7 other pretty decent sounding guitars laying about. And as to be expected he constantly bitched about his guitar didn't sound right. Rolling Eyes
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redelephant

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Re: Quick guitar tone
« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2004, 12:24:23 pm »

Thanks for responses everyone.

Has anyone tried any of the digital guitar solutions? For instance AmpFarm on a TDM rig or Amplitube or N.I's new GuitarRig on a native system? I have heard of major label albums being done solely in AmpFarm. Seems intriguing especially if  times gets tight and the clients guitar rig just wont sound good.
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j.hall

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Re: Quick guitar tone
« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2004, 07:16:49 pm »

the digi amps are awful

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spankenstein

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Re: Quick guitar tone
« Reply #9 on: July 04, 2004, 01:09:37 pm »

redelephant wrote on Sat, 03 July 2004 11:24

and the clients guitar rig just wont sound good.


That's why having some good souding instruments and amps around is crucial.

However the situation with the Danelectro... wow. Did he really think you could get a heavy sound of it? When I've run into someone wanting a sound different than what they brought I just try to explain to them the whys and hows and hope the come around. So far everyone I've worked with has understood that what comes out is only as good as what comes in.

I did record a Marshall MG amp. Awful. There wasn't a redeeming thing about that amp. But, they were happy so there you go.
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redelephant

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Re: Quick guitar tone
« Reply #10 on: July 06, 2004, 12:56:22 am »

j.hall wrote on Sun, 04 July 2004 00:16

the digi amps are awful




I am assuming you're talking about AmpFarm?
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Ross Hogarth

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Re: Quick guitar tone
« Reply #11 on: July 06, 2004, 02:19:22 am »

I never use the plastic if possible (amp farm) I have heard that MCDSP chrometone is cool but I like air on guitars.
I always use the Royers now. These mics have changed guitar recording for me.
Check out this link and see some of my setups for mic placement.

http://www.royerlabs.com/ross_hogarth.html
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Jonas as

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Re: Quick guitar tone
« Reply #12 on: July 06, 2004, 09:03:54 am »

If you couldn't get a danelectro to sound right....
Those guitars can sound incredebly cool, but they are very amp sensitive, you need an amp with lots of character.
IMHO Marshall is not the way to go.

I often make people play my Danelectro when things are starting to get filled up with conventional gibson or fender sounds.

I've also had good results with Danelectros as primary guitars.

just IMincrediblyHO
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Fibes

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Re: Quick guitar tone
« Reply #13 on: July 06, 2004, 09:48:56 am »

I've found on more than one occasion that the Dual rectos need help from another amp to sound huge. The blend of a Mesa with either the mids of a Vox AC-30 or the crunch of a Fender Deluxe into a closed back cab is balls out.

Tha said, i record each amp with a 57/121/(maybe 421, blue ball) combo up close, with (sometimes) a LD condenser picking up the room. For some reason having three sources to spread out in the digital realm hlps give the heavy without clogging up the middle.
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j.hall

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Re: Quick guitar tone
« Reply #14 on: July 06, 2004, 09:49:27 am »

i agree on the danelectro's are very cool
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