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Author Topic: RFZ shaped control room..  (Read 8486 times)

Adam The Truck Driver

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Re: RFZ shaped control room..
« Reply #15 on: February 04, 2009, 05:42:39 pm »

This structure isn't yet built. The pad/concrete will be 27' wide and 42' long and the stucture itself will be a free span steel frame job so my ceiling will be fairly high. The side walls will likely be 14' high to match an adjacent building also not yet built, and there will be a 312 pitch roof most likely. Within this space, roughly 27x42 less the space of the 6 or 8 inch I beams and additional insulated interiour walls, needs to be a control room, and a live room, and an 8' wide hallway running the entire long axis of the building, for additional recording space and for rolling a piano from one place to another place in the facility. The size and shape of the control room and the live room I can eaily make into rectangle floor space shapes if that would be better than square. I would find it considerably easier to use 90 degree corners and parallel walls and utilize acoustic treatments rather than build those odd angled walls. The ceiling however can be quite high, even following the roof line which will be 21' high at least at the peak on a gable end. The adjacent stuctures will have spaces for recording also, one being a reverb chamber, and another for recording large ensembles should the need arrise. Edit: And a larger ISO booth/room. And I can make the control room 19' wide and 15' deep and the live room 19' wide and perhaps 24' deep. They can vary with the space of 19'x 39' I think will be the usable space, possibly 21' wide x39' long depending on the width of the hall.

EDIT:
On another note, is that spray in foam insulation any good for acoustic isolation of adjacent rooms/spaces, double wall of course with about 4" space between?

That is the best I can offer at this time.

Thanks
AB
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andrebrito

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Re: RFZ shaped control room..
« Reply #16 on: February 05, 2009, 06:05:36 am »

Thomas,

when you talk about LF surfacic behaviors what do you mean by that ? modal behavior ?

In a shaped room modal behavior in terms of axial modes would actually be lower than in a rectangular room.

I think I'm not understating that term. Are you talking about re-emission of sound ?
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Ethan Winer

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Re: RFZ shaped control room..
« Reply #17 on: February 05, 2009, 02:05:16 pm »

Adam The Truck Driver wrote on Wed, 04 February 2009 17:42

The size and shape of the control room and the live room I can eaily make into rectangle floor space shapes if that would be better than square.


Yes, and my ModeCalc program linked above will help you pick the best dimensions for your given slab size.

Quote:

I would find it considerably easier to use 90 degree corners and parallel walls and utilize acoustic treatments rather than build those odd angled walls.


That's fine.

Quote:

is that spray in foam insulation any good for acoustic isolation of adjacent rooms/spaces, double wall of course with about 4" space between?


Not sure, hopefully others here can answer that.

--Ethan

Adam The Truck Driver

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Re: RFZ shaped control room..
« Reply #18 on: February 05, 2009, 02:53:55 pm »

I tried that room calculator link thing, but couldn't get it to work for me.

Though now that entire space is nixed as is, in order to afford a better analog desk. Not nixed completely but rather it'll be moved up to the 3rd floor of my house...but anyhoo...I couldn't get the thing to work for me...I don't know why.

TYVM
AB
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Thomas Jouanjean

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Re: RFZ shaped control room..
« Reply #19 on: February 05, 2009, 03:25:20 pm »

andrebrito wrote on Thu, 05 February 2009 05:05

Thomas,

when you talk about LF surfacic behaviors what do you mean by that ? modal behavior ?

In a shaped room modal behavior in terms of axial modes would actually be lower than in a rectangular room.

I think I'm not understating that term. Are you talking about re-emission of sound ?


To make the long story short - within certain conditions (freq is low enough, change of impedance between air and the surface X is high enough, incidence of wave is within certain boundaries) then the energy will literally start sliding on the surface X instead of being transmitted to it. When this happens, virtually no energy is lost while the enregy "slides" on that surface. That blurs a lot of the variables in real life.

The rest of this discussion should happen around a coffe Andre Smile
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Thomas Jouanjean
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Adam The Truck Driver

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Re: RFZ shaped control room..
« Reply #20 on: February 05, 2009, 04:18:08 pm »

Ethan

I figured out how to get the program to work, but have no idea what these graphs and with the vertical lines and the numbers mean.

thx
AB
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Adam Brown

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Ethan Winer

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Re: RFZ shaped control room..
« Reply #21 on: February 07, 2009, 11:58:20 am »

Adam The Truck Driver wrote on Thu, 05 February 2009 14:53

I tried that room calculator link thing, but couldn't get it to work for me.


What exactly happened when you ran it? There's nothing to install, just unzip the files to a folder and run the exe.

--Ethan

franman

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Re: RFZ shaped control room..
« Reply #22 on: February 07, 2009, 11:36:56 pm »

In our experience, all rooms, even multi-sided odd shaped geometry exhibit modal behavior. It just becomes much more complex (difficult) to predict the modal behavior in these odd shaped rooms. We have worked through many projects with odd shaped hard shells and found some methodology that works for us in determining (predicting) modal response. four sides, six sides, eight sides even round rooms have modes. Predicting the axial modes will just become a complicated exercise, thus being another reason (IMO) to leave shaped rooms to the professionals.

It's totally possible to build a great sounding control room in a properly designed and treated rectangle. It's much easier to predict and there's nothing wrong with it. IMO this is the way to go for most (if not all) DIY projects unless you are willing to do a little 'imperical' building (build it, try it, tear it down, repeat)... not many have the stomach or dollars for that!!

Cheers.... FM   Cool
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Chris Griffith

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Re: RFZ shaped control room..
« Reply #23 on: February 08, 2009, 11:41:14 am »

franman wrote on Sat, 07 February 2009 21:36

In our experience, all rooms, even multi-sided odd shaped geometry exhibit modal behavior. It just becomes much more complex (difficult) to predict the modal behavior in these odd shaped rooms. We have worked through many projects with odd shaped hard shells and found some methodology that works for us in determining (predicting) modal response. four sides, six sides, eight sides even round rooms have modes. Predicting the axial modes will just become a complicated exercise, thus being another reason (IMO) to leave shaped rooms to the professionals.

It's totally possible to build a great sounding control room in a properly designed and treated rectangle. It's much easier to predict and there's nothing wrong with it. IMO this is the way to go for most (if not all) DIY projects unless you are willing to do a little 'imperical' building (build it, try it, tear it down, repeat)... not many have the stomach or dollars for that!!

Cheers.... FM   Cool



After reading this thread a bunch I'm really glad to have built a rectangular room.  I'm beginning to do treatment now and can tell its going to sound great.  The room ended up a touch off with a 1:1.41:1.89 ratio (hopefully thats close enough). The low end without treatment already sounds deep and natural.  

Before this I was in a room with terrible ratios and no matter how much treatment I added it never evened out.  My new room without treatment is already more even running sine waves then the old one that had massive amounts of deep traps on the back wall and plenty of rockwool panels in the front.  








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franman

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Re: RFZ shaped control room..
« Reply #24 on: February 08, 2009, 03:15:40 pm »

Chris.. great.. let us know how it all works out.
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Chris Griffith

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Re: RFZ shaped control room..
« Reply #25 on: February 28, 2009, 11:00:47 am »

I'm 95% done treating the room and from doing some sine wave sweeps it seems like I only have one broad peak between 105 to 120ish.  Everything else is amazingly even.

I still need to play with the speaker placement.  How far off the front wall should I place the speakers?  I have a feeling my peak has something to do with placement because it doesn't change much as I walk around the room.  

I'll be buying some software to run real tests next week but so far I'm extremely pleased with the room.  
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J.F.Oros

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Re: RFZ shaped control room..
« Reply #26 on: February 28, 2009, 12:18:12 pm »

Chris Griffith wrote on Sat, 28 February 2009 18:00

I'll be buying some software to run real tests next week[...]

I don't think you have to spend money for what you want to do, you can use Room EQ Wizard (http://www.hometheatershack.com/roomeq/) a freeware but very comprehensive software for small room acoustical measurements.
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Chris Griffith

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Re: RFZ shaped control room..
« Reply #27 on: March 01, 2009, 10:55:51 am »

I'm on a mac is the only problem.  

I can borrow a pc laptop though.  Would the cheapo stock soundcard be ok?
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J.F.Oros

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Re: RFZ shaped control room..
« Reply #28 on: March 01, 2009, 02:52:55 pm »

I'm a Windows user, but on the REQW homepage on the requirements section it says that its working on OSX too.
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Bruno Gouveia

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Re: RFZ shaped control room..
« Reply #29 on: March 01, 2009, 06:47:43 pm »

Thomas Jouanjean wrote on Thu, 05 February 2009 20:25


To make the long story short - within certain conditions (freq is low enough, change of impedance between air and the surface X is high enough, incidence of wave is within certain boundaries) then the energy will literally start sliding on the surface X instead of being transmitted to it. When this happens, virtually no energy is lost while the enregy "slides" on that surface. That blurs a lot of the variables in real life.





Arghhhhhhhh! So true... \stress

Hey Chris, what about some pictures?
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