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Author Topic: Recording eletric guitar DIRECT!  (Read 5053 times)

Bruno Gouveia

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Recording eletric guitar DIRECT!
« on: February 15, 2009, 06:15:34 pm »

Hello!

I would love to be able to record a great electric guitar sound directly to the mixing board / ADC without the usual combination microphone & cabinet /speaker.

I'm now studying electronic engineering and learning a little about op amps I mounted a very simple buffer to connect to the pickups. There was an enormous difference that you can hear it here: http://bestsoundoftheworld.com/audio/guitar-direct.mp3

So my question, do you have good sounds recording directly?

And are this guitar sounds from Metallica's last album recorded directly? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56GE8d8ms1s

Rob Darling

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Re: Recording eletric guitar DIRECT!
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2009, 08:49:15 pm »

The amps are probably out in the live room.  When they go to record, he tells the assistant to "go ahead and arm all four tracks"- probably some combination of mics on an amp/amps.

You can use a Sequis Motherload http://www.motherloadusa.com/ or Palmer PGA04 - http://www.mercenary.com/pga04addimop.html.

With these boxes, the speaker level output of your amp goes into them instead of the speaker of your amp.  It kicks out a line level signal.  Good stuff.


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Nick Sevilla

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Re: Recording eletric guitar DIRECT!
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2009, 08:54:55 pm »

Hi Bruno.

There have been many models of DI boxes (short for "Direct Inject").

The method started in the 1960's, and although Joe Meek, George Martin, etc, sometimes claim to be the first, it was actually Les Paul, in his home studio, who first dabbled in this.

Nowadays, you can also have a multiple output DI box, in order to record the direct signal, plus sending it to amplifiers too, thus recording the same performance through several flavors of sound devices.

Cheers
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Fibes

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Re: Recording eletric guitar DIRECT!
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2009, 03:37:33 pm »

To me direct guitar recording works best at both ends of the spectrum.

1. Super Clean through a preamp and a compressor to get a totally dry, sterile and present tone. This is not to be confused with a gorgeous Twin reverb/Dumble clean sound which is one of the most difficult to emulate IMO.

2. The uber dirty super fuzzed out tone. Distortion pedal direct to a preamp is unlike anything a fuzz into an amp can create.


The rest of the fake stuff trying to emulate real amps, real rooms, real speakers and real microphones is a long way off from the sonic bliss i'm accustomed to.

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rankus

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Re: Recording eletric guitar DIRECT!
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2009, 10:09:19 pm »



I am with Fibes on this one.  Nothing like a 100% clean guitar tone jacked straight in.  And is there anything more raunchy than a Gtr > RAT Pedal > Pre Amp ?  LOve that stuff!

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j.hall

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Re: Recording eletric guitar DIRECT!
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2009, 11:42:29 am »

yup, fibes nailed it!
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Jesse M

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Re: Recording eletric guitar DIRECT!
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2009, 02:41:11 am »

The vast majority of people don't have the ears that someone like Fibes has, so I would check out the Native Instruments Guitar Rig.

NelsonL

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Re: Recording eletric guitar DIRECT!
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2009, 07:03:13 am »

And yet, you'll never ever achieve Fibesdom without micing up amp after amp after amp...

Back to the original post-- I don't think they're using a sim or a palmer box etc, not that anyone explicitly said that.

I think they're DI-ing the track, multing out to several reamps, and printing a blend of amps. I'm sort of guessing based on a few clues in the sundry youtube clips.

Maybe Terry can ask Greg, if he sees this?
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compasspnt

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Re: Recording eletric guitar DIRECT!
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2009, 10:33:44 pm »

Just saw it.  I'll ask Greg, bu I also wager he will not want to say exactly.
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BiasRocks

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Re: Recording eletric guitar DIRECT!
« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2009, 11:46:46 pm »

Bruno Gouveia wrote on Sun, 15 February 2009 23:15

Hello!
So my question, do you have good sounds recording directly?



I like direct for things like clean electric or nasty tones such as stomp box into a mic pre-amp. Typically I will mic an amp for most sounds.

Quote:


And are this guitar sounds from Metallica's last album recorded directly? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56GE8d8ms1s


Sounds like multiple amps to me. The tell is around 7:50 he asks the assistant to turn the Marshall and "Crank" on standby, everything else on.

Mark

NelsonL

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Re: Recording eletric guitar DIRECT!
« Reply #10 on: February 26, 2009, 02:56:28 am »

compasspnt wrote on Wed, 25 February 2009 19:33

Just saw it.  I'll ask Greg, bu I also wager he will not want to say exactly.



Thank you, and quite understandable if that's the case.
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mdbeh

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Re: Recording eletric guitar DIRECT!
« Reply #11 on: February 26, 2009, 05:41:39 pm »

Jesse M wrote on Wed, 25 February 2009 01:41

The vast majority of people don't have the ears that someone like Fibes has, so I would check out the Native Instruments Guitar Rig.


So now micing a guitar amp is a Special Expert Technique too?  I just don't understand this mentality.
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RSettee

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Re: Recording eletric guitar DIRECT!
« Reply #12 on: February 28, 2009, 05:54:56 pm »

There's some nice sounds to be had for cleans--and it certainly is quicker--but rock tones or overdriven tones just don't sound natural with an amp emulator or speaker emulator. As Fibes mentioned, some have gone directly into the board with a fuzz pedal (the Beatles did this on "Revolution", I believe), but it's certainly something that I wouldn't want to hear all the time.
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Alécio Costa - Brazil

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Re: Recording eletric guitar DIRECT!
« Reply #13 on: May 30, 2009, 01:51:46 am »

I have not recorded many bands in the last 5 years, but have to tell you most do not want to spend time tweaking amps (!!), setting up microphone combos and so.

Generally they come in and ask: do you have those cool presets from Band XXX where we can start with" or... "I like the sound you achived on album Y"?

SO... shame or not, a combi of Amp farm, Guitar Rig, Chrome tone, Amplitube is quite common in this very semilazy/"savin-money" community.
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Nacho

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Re: Recording eletric guitar DIRECT!
« Reply #14 on: May 30, 2009, 01:01:46 pm »

Oh man, I might be stepping on some toes here but I consider recording electric guitars direct a capital sin.  Call me oldschool or outdated but no simulator, DI box or plugin can replace the sound of a nice miced guitar amp.

It's just my humble opinion.
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CWHumphrey

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Re: Recording electric guitar DIRECT!
« Reply #15 on: May 30, 2009, 02:19:58 pm »

Is really that hard to tweak an amp?

Fortunately, I've had the good fortune when recording rock the past number of years, to go to a couple of studios in Los Angeles that have great selections of vintage amps, and in some cases, guitars-at no extra cost.

If I'm in a hurry (which is almost always), I'll grab 2 or 3 guitars and amps in addition to what the player has for shoot out purposes.

I have the player "audition" the part live in the with his/her usual setup.  Then, I make a decision to maybe try another guitar and maybe one or two other amps to check out.  This happens fairly quickly: we just try a few bars with each amp and each guitar and make a decision.  Sometimes, this might inspire layering of different guitar/amps.  I like to keep things moving because I don't want the player to get burned out.

I'm also a big believer in getting it right at the source.  Assuming the guitar, amp, Mic's, and placement are right, after adjusting the balance of the 2 Mic's (or 3) on the amp, I always make EQ changes with the tone controls on the amp rather than EQ'ing in the control room.  When it's right, it's right.

I've only recorded a guitar direct when I wanted a specific effect, such as the signal going in to a super long reverb and only getting the reverberated sound.  While I've used things like The Pod, Sans Amp, and the like, I've found that the player has to have really great tone in their playing to get even a decent tone out of those things.

Cheers,
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Nick Sevilla

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Re: Recording eletric guitar DIRECT!
« Reply #16 on: June 01, 2009, 02:43:55 pm »

Nacho wrote on Sat, 30 May 2009 10:01

Oh man, I might be stepping on some toes here but I consider recording electric guitars direct a capital sin.  Call me oldschool or outdated but no simulator, DI box or plugin can replace the sound of a nice miced guitar amp.

It's just my humble opinion.


It's just another type of sound. Another tool if you will...

Most west african "cocote" sounds are direct to the board. You cannot get that sound with an amplifier.

Cheers
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Nacho

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Re: Recording eletric guitar DIRECT!
« Reply #17 on: June 02, 2009, 02:33:55 pm »

Nick Sevilla wrote on Mon, 01 June 2009 13:43

Nacho wrote on Sat, 30 May 2009 10:01

Oh man, I might be stepping on some toes here but I consider recording electric guitars direct a capital sin.  Call me oldschool or outdated but no simulator, DI box or plugin can replace the sound of a nice miced guitar amp.

It's just my humble opinion.


It's just another type of sound. Another tool if you will...

Most west african "cocote" sounds are direct to the board. You cannot get that sound with an amplifier.

Cheers



I thought we were talking about distorted guitar sounds... Shocked
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Nick Sevilla

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Re: Recording eletric guitar DIRECT!
« Reply #18 on: June 02, 2009, 04:13:50 pm »

Nacho wrote on Tue, 02 June 2009 11:33

Nick Sevilla wrote on Mon, 01 June 2009 13:43

Nacho wrote on Sat, 30 May 2009 10:01

Oh man, I might be stepping on some toes here but I consider recording electric guitars direct a capital sin.  Call me oldschool or outdated but no simulator, DI box or plugin can replace the sound of a nice miced guitar amp.

It's just my humble opinion.


It's just another type of sound. Another tool if you will...

Most west african "cocote" sounds are direct to the board. You cannot get that sound with an amplifier.

Cheers



I thought we were talking about distorted guitar sounds... Shocked


You can distort the desks' input... but you have to have a really good guitar player to get anything useful out of that sound.

Mostly DI guitars are clean.

Cheers
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compasspnt

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Re: Recording eletric guitar DIRECT!
« Reply #19 on: June 02, 2009, 06:11:07 pm »

Bruno Gouveia wrote on Sun, 15 February 2009 18:15

And are this guitar sounds from Metallica's last album recorded directly? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56GE8d8ms1s



By the way, Greg Fidelman, the engineer in that video (with the black hair) is a SUPER GREAT guitarist himself.

Third from left in this album cover:

http://www.amazon.com/Get-Used-Rhino-Bucket/dp/B000008JZG
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NelsonL

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Re: Recording eletric guitar DIRECT!
« Reply #20 on: June 03, 2009, 07:15:20 am »

compasspnt wrote on Tue, 02 June 2009 15:11

Bruno Gouveia wrote on Sun, 15 February 2009 18:15

And are this guitar sounds from Metallica's last album recorded directly? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56GE8d8ms1s



By the way, Greg Fidelman, the engineer in that video (with the black hair) is a SUPER GREAT guitarist himself.

Third from left in this album cover:

http://www.amazon.com/Get-Used-Rhino-Bucket/dp/B000008JZG



I engineered a project with a Jackie Enx, FKA Liam Jason (also pictured) last year-- one of my favorite people to work with, ever.

I learned a ton about editing (very lightly) for feel, and made a great friend.

Naturally, when Terry's name came up I got to hear the retelling of some very fond memories.

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Dan-O

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Re: Recording eletric guitar DIRECT!
« Reply #21 on: June 16, 2009, 11:04:33 am »

compasspnt wrote on Tue, 02 June 2009 18:11

Bruno Gouveia wrote on Sun, 15 February 2009 18:15

And are this guitar sounds from Metallica's last album recorded directly? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56GE8d8ms1s



By the way, Greg Fidelman, the engineer in that video (with the black hair) is a SUPER GREAT guitarist himself.

Third from left in this album cover:

http://www.amazon.com/Get-Used-Rhino-Bucket/dp/B000008JZG




Love the Bucket!
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