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Author Topic: Zipping mixes  (Read 3907 times)

OTR-jkl

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Zipping mixes
« on: February 13, 2009, 10:27:12 am »

An overseas (Middle East) client is having troubles uploading mix files to our server (US). I directed them to a couple of ftp apps (one of which I use regularly with no problems) that they could try out but I don't know if they've tried to use them or not. This morning, I took a peek on the server to find out how they were progressing and noticed that they've uploaded a large .zip file. Haven't heard from them yet, but I'm assuming that what I'm seeing is the uploaded mix files as one big zipped file.

Does zipping mix files (44/24) degrade the audio quality at all? Can anyone make a suggestion that might make things easier and better?

Thanks.
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cass anawaty

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Re: Zipping mixes
« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2009, 10:33:13 am »

This is where I find "yousendit" to be invaluable.  Just send the "dropbox" link, and they upload from there.

Not sure about degradation in certain zip formats, but as an FYI one of my clients uses a lossless app called "7-zip" that has worked well.
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Cass Anawaty, Chief Engineer
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iquinn

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Re: Zipping mixes
« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2009, 10:34:17 am »

I've found sendspace (or similar sites) to be more reliable when someone is having ftp dropouts/issues.

http://www.sendspace.com/


edit: As suggested, yousendit is probably a better solution than sendspace.
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stephen quinn

zmix

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Re: Zipping mixes
« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2009, 10:55:05 am »

OTR-jkl wrote on Fri, 13 February 2009 10:27

Does zipping mix files (44/24) degrade the audio quality at all?


Absolutely not.  I request zipped files simply because I have had audio files damaged by errors in the online transfer, but was unaware of the problem since the files would play, only to discover a few audible "clicks" were now present.

When a file is Zipped, the Zip archive simply will not open if there are any errors or the file is corrupt. Saves me a lot of anxiety.

PookyNMR

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Re: Zipping mixes
« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2009, 11:23:04 am »

Also, if I understand the issue correctly, some files (like project files) that use resource forks can be damaged by some servers that inadvertently damage that part of the file.  Zipping the files puts them in a 'container' to eliminate that problem.  I once encountered this problem being sent Ableton Live session files that would not open when placed directly on the server, but would when zipped.
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Nathan Rousu

Viitalahde

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Re: Zipping mixes
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2009, 11:25:22 am »

Cass Anawaty wrote on Fri, 13 February 2009 15:33

This is where I find "yousendit" to be invaluable.


Hey, I've been meaning to ask this here.

I've got an FTP server but it's bloody slow to some customers. The Yousendit dropbox seems pretty good, but I've been worried about it's potentionally unsafe/unprofessional aspect to some clients. I know it's not, but some might feel that way.

Have you Yousendit users had any questions about the use of this service? I've been interested in it..
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Jaakko Viitalähde
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Tomas Danko

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Re: Zipping mixes
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2009, 11:38:39 am »

PookyNMR wrote on Fri, 13 February 2009 16:23

Also, if I understand the issue correctly, some files (like project files) that use resource forks can be damaged by some servers that inadvertently damage that part of the file.  Zipping the files puts them in a 'container' to eliminate that problem.  I once encountered this problem being sent Ableton Live session files that would not open when placed directly on the server, but would when zipped.


This is a Mac issue, although not as much of a problem as it used to be. When you unpack an archive file, it will recreate the correct filetype definition for the files that might otherwise get screwed up if downloading the unprocessed file.

In order to preserve all Mac-related data, one should BinHex-encode (.hqx) the file prior to zipping it. This will prevent any server from either reformatting the data (believing it to be a text document that needs carriage returns every, say, 80th character) or otherwise futzing with it due to assigning it a MIME-type.

More info here: http://www.fileinfo.net/extension/hqx
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ggidluck

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Re: Zipping mixes
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2009, 11:44:18 am »

With FTP, if it gets interrupted you will get part of the file. You might not know whether or not that it is the whole thing.

Zipping the files puts them into a container that has a checksum that verifies the integrity of the whole archive. If the checksum doesn't match then you know you don't have the whole thing.

In the taper trading community I think what they do is a smart idea... They publish the files in FLAC or SHN format (lossless compressed) and publish MD5 checksums for each song. You can verify the file is intact with each MD5 checksum.

Zip format is much more convenient I guess. RAR format can be used for bigger archives. I think zip might be limited to 2 gb. But having the files in individual FLAC files makes more sense if your connectivity is flaky. Plus you have it in a format for archival already. Some apps can read that format directly now. (Reaper/Samplitude 10). Good move!
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Gordon Gidluck
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mastertone

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Re: Zipping mixes
« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2009, 12:02:05 pm »

zmix wrote on Fri, 13 February 2009 09:55



Absolutely not.  I request zipped files simply because I have had audio files damaged by errors in the online transfer, but was unaware of the problem since the files would play, only to discover a few audible "clicks" were now present.

When a file is Zipped, the Zip archive simply will not open if there are any errors or the file is corrupt. Saves me a lot of anxiety.




Same for me. Ive had to many files that went bad over the Ftp.

Clicks and sometimes white noise spikes here and there.

I tell all my clients to zip or winrar it.
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Jonas Ekstrom
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ggidluck

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Re: Zipping mixes
« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2009, 01:28:30 pm »

Apparently FTP does not do checksums and this is one reason why it is so fast.

Alternatives...
You can use SFTP (secure FTP) if the host supports it. A checksum is done on each packet and acknowledgment must come back from the client. The packet would be retransmitted if needed.

Another one is SCP (secure copy protocol.) We use that on Linux systems and use a client on windows called WinSCP. Under the hood it works like encrypted connections do under SSH.

Both SFTP or SCP are preferred if you have a host on the other end that will talk to you using that protocol. Mac OSX supports both of these from what I understand.
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Gordon Gidluck
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Greg Reierson

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Re: Zipping mixes
« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2009, 02:38:38 pm »

Viitalahde wrote on Fri, 13 February 2009 10:25

Have you Yousendit users had any questions about the use of this service? I've been interested in it..



No problems except a brief outage a couple weeks back. Clients love the ease of use of a drop box. No messing around with FTP clients, etc. It's very user friendly.


GR
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Sonovo

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Re: Zipping mixes
« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2009, 02:50:19 pm »

For those with a Mac, I can heartily recommend Rumpus FTP server from Maxum development.

Bob K turned me on to it last year, it is an excellently designed FTP server that also supports WebDAV and HTTP, so you can point your clients to your server through a regular web browser and up/download from there, or even mount the disk (their user area) on their desktop.

Very slick, reasonably priced, secure. The best part is that if you set up a computer in the studio as the server, you clients files are there ready to be worked on, and when you're done a simple drag and drop makes them available for them to download.

It also offer remote management, statistics, logging, etc etc.

Cheers,
Thor

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cass anawaty

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Re: Zipping mixes
« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2009, 03:16:39 pm »

Viitalahde wrote on Fri, 13 February 2009 16:25

Cass Anawaty wrote on Fri, 13 February 2009 15:33

This is where I find "yousendit" to be invaluable.


Hey, I've been meaning to ask this here.

I've got an FTP server but it's bloody slow to some customers. The Yousendit dropbox seems pretty good, but I've been worried about it's potentially unsafe/unprofessional aspect to some clients. I know it's not, but some might feel that way.

Have you Yousendit users had any questions about the use of this service? I've been interested in it..



I have both my own and yousendit.  I've never really worried about the impression as I usually pre-empt it with "it's faster and more user-friendly".  I don't mess with "client login" stuff, so it's more secure in that fashion than having them upload to a folder where everyone is using the same password.

I think there are "custom" options for the dropbox to make it prettier--or at least consistent w/ your branding theme.  Never messed with it, though.
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Peter Beckmann

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Re: Zipping mixes
« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2009, 03:22:49 pm »

I get files sent to me all the time via yousendit or sendspace.
They seem slower than a regular FTP using [on a Mac] say Transmit, but are really easy for clients to use.

I always insist on zipped files to avoid potential problems. As others have said, if there's a problem, the checksum alerts you, rather than you finding out the hard way, [which will always happen when you have the tightest deadline for the toughest client...]

Thor, I'll look into Rumpus,sounds good.

Peter

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Peter Beckmann
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Andrew Hamilton

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Re: Zipping mixes
« Reply #14 on: February 13, 2009, 06:52:39 pm »

The topic has pretty well been put to rest.  I'll just say that I like DreamHost, who is my web site host.  I have a cgi script that I found online and modified with my own names and other words.  It allows me to have a browser-authenticated directory on my web site's server that anyone with a browser can upload to, as long as s/he knows the user name and password.   When files arrive, a bot from the server e-mails me that I've got "mail."   A separate directory is used for e-delivery.   I prefer .zip, and, of course, SonicStudio's knowledgebase page has the great information on using the OSX Terminal app to create an MD5  √sum of any file.   But I also accept individual files.  My IP address is static, so if it takes all night to upload, it won't time out and lose the connection.  I won't give the "Internets" the keys to the kingdom, so's I dasn't get swamped with MP3s and other digi gags...  But I will share this screenshot of the page you will see if you do know the user name and password...






Andrew

index.php/fa/11281/0/
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