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Author Topic: How do you "sell" the mix?  (Read 5590 times)

tiggie

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Re: How do you "sell" the mix?
« Reply #15 on: August 25, 2004, 07:43:26 AM »

I find myself in this situation a fair bit, as I tend to get assigned a lot of the young bands because I'm the youngest engineer at the studio...

It depends just how much I dislike what they're asking for and what's happening to the recording - if they're just going to send out a few demos to get gigs with I don't worry as much as I would if it's being released.

If I really don't like what they're asking for and wouldn't want my name or the studio's name going on that mix, I tend to do it anyway and then play it to them and explain why I don't like it. If they're discerning listeners then they'll usually come round or compromise. If they're not and I really don't like their ideas then I tend to just do something devious like play it how they want it, then change it to how I want it and play it back louder and then they go "Oh yeah, that's fantastic!"...
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j.hall

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Re: How do you "sell" the mix?
« Reply #16 on: August 25, 2004, 09:53:26 AM »

i think deception is a very dangerous tool.  i can't say that i haven't used it myself, but i think deceiving the band/artist is something that should only happen in extreme circumstances.

giving them what they "want" and not what they ask for is a bit different, and also requires a high level of people skills.

i'm not singling anyone out, tiggie just bumped this thread up and i re-read some of it......

it seems like reading tape op and mix has made us believe that doing whatever the hell we want is acceptable behavoir for AE's.

i just think that at the end of the day, we are employees of the band that is sitting on the couch.  if they want the mix to suck, we'll discuss it, but i won't deceive them in thinking i'm doing one thing, when i'm doing another.
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BLUElight

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Re: How do you "sell" the mix?
« Reply #17 on: September 05, 2004, 12:40:51 AM »

I generally get the mix into the ballpark by myself, after talking to the band about the overall sonic direction they'd like the mix to take. Then the band members will come in and advise me of any changes they'd like me to make.  I let the band take the CD for a week and listen to the mixes in more familiar environments.  If there are any changes to make, the band writes them down and brings them in; we recall the mixes (this is in ProTools) and make the changes.

HERE'S THE CATCH - When compiling the changes, BAND MEMBERS MAY NOT SUGGEST CHANGES TO THEIR OWN INSTRUMENTS - For example, the singer can say "The guitars need to come up" or "The snare is too loud" but not "The vocals aren't loud enough."  I've found that this encourages the band to listen to the big picture of the mix, rather than their own instruments.  Now, if someone feels strongly about a change to their own instrument, I'll accomodate them (after all, it's their money) - But so far, this method has been really successful for me.
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Cory Spotts / BLUElight Audio|Media - www.bluelightaudiomedia.com

bloodstone

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Re: How do you "sell" the mix?
« Reply #18 on: September 27, 2004, 05:51:33 AM »

I don't sell mixes, I give the artist what they want.  I might try to sell them on the idea that their notion of what sounds right needs reconsideration.  If they're happy, I'm happy.  I've done tons of stuff for clients against my will (way too much reverb or delay, vocals way out front, keeping lame half-ass performances, etc.)  The only time I get upset is when they decide to give me production or mix credit when I had little or nothing to do with the choices and decisions that led to the finished mix.  Nothing's worse than seeing your name as producer/mixer on something that you had no control over or input on!

One thing I might do if my convictions were strong enough is mix the stuff on my own time my way and see if the artist preferred what I came up with.  Then if they prefer it you could bill them for your time.  
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weihfool

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Re: How do you "sell" the mix?
« Reply #19 on: September 28, 2004, 05:32:19 PM »

Again, I have to reiterate that "selling" is not really what i meant to say.  I just couldn't think of another way to put it.  However, you did answer the question I was trying to ask.  That question being how do you get around a client who is asking for sonically ridiculous things when you know, in your heart and brain, that it won't work.  On the level that i'm working(the bottom!), the local bands are only too happy to say "produced by x", in order to give their recording a more official look, I guess?  Regardless, like you said, it sucks when you're given that credit and yet had no say in what ultimately became the final product.  There is no nice way I can think of to say "Hey, don't put my name on this".  No matter how you say it, you chance offending the client or, worse yet, losing them to your competition.  Now, if the client goes somewhere else because they just don't dig your facility/vibe/equipment/etc. that's fine.  I know damn well that my place isn't for everyone.  However, if you lose them because you've pissed them off or insulted them, that can get around a very small music scene VERY quickly.  Being on Long Island, I can't walk down the street without tripping over a power cord attached to some kid's Digi002 who is selling time out of his house for $15 an hour.  Needless to say, I don't want to piss off ANYONE.  

So, in closing, the real question was how do you help the client achieve their vision without pissing them off AND without making yourself suffer the consequences for their choices.  

By the way, thanks to everyone who responded.
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bloodstone

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Re: How do you "sell" the mix?
« Reply #20 on: September 29, 2004, 07:39:08 AM »

In my case I proactively requested credit only for tracking.  The client promised that's how it would end up, then he gave me credit for everything due to an "oversight".  Ahhhhhhhhh!!!!!!
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