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Author Topic: Daking 1112 costs?  (Read 13192 times)

Sean Eldon Qualls

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Re: Daking 1112 costs?
« Reply #15 on: February 04, 2009, 11:37:13 pm »

wwittman wrote on Wed, 04 February 2009 17:45

You're comparing to an all discrete, all transformer desk... try pricing an API!


A 32-input API 1608 (3208?) can be had for just under $90k. It won't have a jukebox but you can monitor 8 channels from the recorder/DAW via buss inputs. Or you can get out of the preamp prefader, and then return on the fader. Or add 8200A's as necessary. Maybe axe some equalizers in the expander. Or just start without the expander...
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Sean Eldon
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Adam The Truck Driver

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Re: Daking 1112 costs?
« Reply #16 on: February 04, 2009, 11:54:04 pm »

 I was only interested in the Neotek as I'd read some on it having very deep sound, while being pretty transparent throughout, and it has very affective EQ so I've read.

I could certainly afford the ATB without question. I'm more than willing to save 10-12K and get an ATB. Then I'd have the monitors I really want. I have concern on the ATB's versitility. It can handle contemporary rock and or country music, loud stuff. Everyone seems to like the ATB EQ I know, but how are the preamps and everything else in the thing? Can it handle acoustic based music like bluegrass, and folk like stuff, or a chamber quartet with appropreate results? I've read it is designed as a rock and roller board.

This studio I'm going to build may become a commercial facility at some point. It should be large enough certainly to accomodate a variety of situations, but it is first and foremost for my own enjoyment, and I have oddly high standards. Still have to stay Earth bound though.

thanks
AB
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Adam Brown

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wwittman

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Re: Daking 1112 costs?
« Reply #17 on: February 05, 2009, 01:24:14 am »

Adam The Truck Driver wrote on Wed, 04 February 2009 23:54

 ... Everyone seems to like the ATB EQ I know, but how are the preamps and everything else in the thing? Can it handle acoustic based music like bluegrass, and folk like stuff, or a chamber quartet with appropreate results? I've read it is designed as a rock and roller board.



It's OKAY, at most.
but so is a Neotek

I'm not saying you can't do better.
I'm only saying that you might not be able to do better at that price point.




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William Wittman
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compasspnt

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Re: Daking 1112 costs?
« Reply #18 on: February 05, 2009, 03:24:58 am »

wwittman wrote on Thu, 05 February 2009 01:24

I'm not saying you can't do better.
I'm only saying that you might not be able to do better at that price point.



Exactly. The ATB is not the end of the world, by any means.

But at that price point, you could also get several of one particular high quality microphone preamplifier as your "front end."  Use those for the most things during tracking, and for everything during overdubs.

Keep levels reasonably low so you don't get into digital trouble and/or overdrive the ATB line inputs.

Then monitor and mix ("sum") through the desk, using the analogue EQ as needed (much better than most plug-ins).
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Tomas Danko

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Re: Daking 1112 costs?
« Reply #19 on: February 05, 2009, 06:59:27 am »

Adam The Truck Driver wrote on Wed, 04 February 2009 23:33

It is an option I have considered Terry. I understand though that those quickly add up to 100K when you start to load in modules. I have considered Audient also. I might just go with the Mix Dream(s) as was my first intention and get those Euphonix controllers, but I'd really like to have a real analog board with faders and EQ and AUXes, and so on. Time will tell.

William I don't mean I'd want or need another 24 outboard EQs if I could have the Daking 1112, but I would want...oh...perhaps 3 outboard EQs of various design, or 1-3 pair maybe for given applications that maybe the Daking EQs aren't 100% perfect for. They might be 90-98% there but aren't perfect because they can't be dialed in to the perfect frequency. I only want to be able to cover the occassional requirement for adjustment to the inbetween frequencies that board EQs don't cover. EDIT: and only when EQ is needed.

TYVM
AB


If I would be so lucky to own a Daking desk, whatever surgical EQ task that could not be handled by the desk EQ I'd simply take care of using some plug-in inside the DAW. Doesn't have to be any more fancy than that, really.
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Adam The Truck Driver

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Re: Daking 1112 costs?
« Reply #20 on: February 05, 2009, 10:34:24 am »

Well alright then.

What would be the next step up, or 2 up from an ATB? I'm prepared to spend up to 25K in my budgeting, as of now, for the analog console, minimum 16 channels. If I shrink everything else down, maybe I could swing the Daking, but the place would then be tiny. The Daking might not fit in the control room then, or it'd would be a pretty tight working space, but that has been done before with great success.

I would accept a used console if I can have some assurance that I'm not going to get screwed on it in any way...technical...real value or otherwise...but then...whats really any good used in the price range? I wouldn't really know much about something used. For example, I've read bad things, particularly here, about MCI. So I know to stay away from MCI. What else might there be that is good?

Thanks to all.
AB
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Adam Brown

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Adam The Truck Driver

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Re: Daking 1112 costs?
« Reply #21 on: February 05, 2009, 10:57:35 am »

Tomas Danko wrote on Thu, 05 February 2009 05:59

Adam The Truck Driver wrote on Wed, 04 February 2009 23:33

It is an option I have considered Terry. I understand though that those quickly add up to 100K when you start to load in modules. I have considered Audient also. I might just go with the Mix Dream(s) as was my first intention and get those Euphonix controllers, but I'd really like to have a real analog board with faders and EQ and AUXes, and so on. Time will tell.

William I don't mean I'd want or need another 24 outboard EQs if I could have the Daking 1112, but I would want...oh...perhaps 3 outboard EQs of various design, or 1-3 pair maybe for given applications that maybe the Daking EQs aren't 100% perfect for. They might be 90-98% there but aren't perfect because they can't be dialed in to the perfect frequency. I only want to be able to cover the occassional requirement for adjustment to the inbetween frequencies that board EQs don't cover. EDIT: and only when EQ is needed.

TYVM
AB


If I would be so lucky to own a Daking desk, whatever surgical EQ task that could not be handled by the desk EQ I'd simply take care of using some plug-in inside the DAW. Doesn't have to be any more fancy than that, really.


I should give it a chance at least to some degree...ITB dynamics and EQ I mean.

Thanks
AB

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Adam Brown

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Mike O

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Re: Daking 1112 costs?
« Reply #22 on: February 05, 2009, 11:14:16 am »

A 16 channel Daking would be like 50" wide. If that will not fit then you don't have a control room.

BUT....In your shoes/budget I would probably give up on the Daking. Define what room/space you need to record the musicians that you want to record in the manner you want to do it.

Need to record 5-6 piece rock with isolation?
Need to record a string quartet?

It's all compromises. You can add/change consoles/equipment later. The room is much more difficult.

A quick thought on used consoles (and studio config/design): If I were going to buy a big, over the road truck rig that I could make money with year over year I would hire someone that had experience with all aspects of that particular business: driving (performance/comfort, etc.), accounting (fuel economy, depreciation), maintenance (cost over time).

It sounds like you plan on spending a fairly substanial amount of money. As many of us do, you are researching and refining your ideas on-line. Cool. But before you get your ideas to 'hard set' I would encourage you to formally engage someone in this industry with experience in all areas of this business. They can help you put together a progressive plan of action in context of your needs and budget.

A few grand now will save you MOUNTAINS of money and frustration later.

If I am out of line; please ignore; but please do take care and good luck!
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Adam The Truck Driver

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Re: Daking 1112 costs?
« Reply #23 on: February 05, 2009, 03:20:48 pm »

Thanks Mike

It's fine man. You're right. I should seek a paid professional to help me design my facility. I have previously considered that idea. I have concern as to how long it would take, how do/should I start the communication and with which consultant should I plan with and whats that going to cost. Odd how every answer leads to more questions.

In regards to getting a truely good analog console I am planning to nix the seperate building, and move it's space, the control room and live room to the 3rd floor of my house. Frieght elevator is in the plan, and or wide stair cases. I was going to have master bedrooms up there, but I can change that easily enough. Not having the seperate building might save me 20K at least in rough building cost and materials, and then I won't have finishing costs, so I'm up to maybe 40 or 50K extra saved for the console.

I own my own truck and have my own authority by the way. It is what will be paying for all this initially.

Have a nice day
AB
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Adam Brown

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rankus

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Re: Daking 1112 costs?
« Reply #24 on: February 05, 2009, 05:00:47 pm »



As an owner of an ATB I can say the preamps are usable and actually sound ok... (in a pinch)  but I run outboard pre's as much as possible and use the ATB's pre's for overflow (Toms etc.)  



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Adam The Truck Driver

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Re: Daking 1112 costs?
« Reply #25 on: February 05, 2009, 06:44:30 pm »

Alright Rick thanks. I was planning to run a nice compliment of outboard everything, including premium preamps, but this leads me to more questions. If I get the ATB, is it a colorful sound throughout or would you say what you put in is what comes out?

Thanks
AB
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Adam Brown

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wwittman

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Re: Daking 1112 costs?
« Reply #26 on: February 05, 2009, 11:07:12 pm »

Adam The Truck Driver wrote on Thu, 05 February 2009 18:44

, is it a colorful sound throughout or would you say what you put in is what comes out?

Thanks
AB



forgive me Adam, but this is gearslutz style doubletalk.

give me an example of a desk that is "colourful" as opposed to a desk that is "you put in is what comes out"


which is an API?
a Neve?
a Helios?
an SSL?
a Neotek?
a Daking?

in EVERY case they have their 'sound' and in every case they more or less give you back what you put it (with their individual characters)


bottom line is that with your budget I would consider the ATB and then add however many Dakings as you can in your budget (after you've spent what you need to on room design and treatment and monitors and mics and so on)

and as Terry said, try to use the better quality mic pres as much as possible and use plug-in EQ in the twice a year cases when you need "other frequencies" the hardware might not have.





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William Wittman
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Adam The Truck Driver

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Re: Daking 1112 costs?
« Reply #27 on: February 05, 2009, 11:56:54 pm »

I've never been to gearsluts...or WETF it is...what I'm asking is if I go spend 12 grand plus on outboard pres to run through the ATB, if I get one which is pretty much being used for EQ and summing only...is the ATB going to alter their sound too much, or rather lack there of should I select more transparent preamps like that, this, those and these ect, not to name names as this isn't a preamp advertisement but is about the Toft ATB and it's signal purity throughout...what I want to hear in that case on a given source is the microphone selection on the source and their respective positions to eachother within a given space...not the board...should the board have some color of its own I might not want to spend something well over a grand per channel on mic preamps...when their sound will be altered by the board...and I understand the ATB pres aren't so great...I can get some pres for less money that have great smooth sound to start with, but with a bit of color that are well under 1K per channel. So if the ATB adds a bit more color it's alright because I'll know I'm not going to be after a super clean sound anyway, cause I can't get one. If I have a 100% great sounding board with great pres to start with, as in this Daking 1112, I'd just go with it and not want additional pres...a couple pair or 3 of select outboard comps and EQs yes for mix...pres no.

I've had 3. Sorry to rant on.

I appreciate all the help, seriously.
Hell...I need to go to bed...back to work tomorrow I go.

TYVM
AB
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Adam Brown

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kats

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Re: Daking 1112 costs?
« Reply #28 on: February 06, 2009, 09:22:09 am »

Unless your going commercial (or money is burning a hole in your pocket) I'd stick with the ATB. It sounds good, and it won't hold you back. If you want it cleaner, it's a simple simple mod to swap out a couple of chips in the master section.

I own a Neotek as well as a ATB (which I sold) so I'm speaking from a bit of experience.  The pres on both boards are just fine. Get a pair of boutique pres and your set to go.

Now if you ARE going commercial just sell the ATB and lose 1K and buy a more suitable console.
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Tomas Danko

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Re: Daking 1112 costs?
« Reply #29 on: February 06, 2009, 09:36:12 am »

With all respect, sometimes I wonder what the underlying reason for doing something like this can be.

If it is because you are dying to record (or write, perform and record) music then you just get whatever you can get your hands on NOW and start doing it. You can upgrade during the process, but there is nothing stopping you from doing what you live for. Besides, it will give you real life experience that tells you what you really DO need and what you don't.

Otherwise it starts looking a lot like Gear Acquisition Syndrome, and more about dreaming up plans for the future while drooling over catalogues filled with gear.

Since I have no knowledge at all in this particular case, please don't consider this personal. It's just stuff that sometimes cross my mind when I follow threads of people in general that ask about gear a lot over a longer period of time.

Cheers,

Danko
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