R/E/P Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: 1 [2] 3 4  All   Go Down

Author Topic: Does Wood Really Sound Warm?  (Read 7720 times)

Fig

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1186
Re: Does Wood Really Sound Warm?
« Reply #15 on: February 06, 2009, 05:57:44 pm »

franman wrote on Fri, 06 February 2009 11:41

I knew that wood sounded warmer!!!   Cool


It certianly burns warmer than say, concrete logs.  Sorry.

Regarding wood in general - most musical instruments are made of the stuff.  Must be a reason, right?

The best to use on CR construction comes from trees that have fallen in the forest but nobody heard them.   Cool

Have nice weekends, folks!

Fig


Logged
The easiest thing to do is the thing most easily forgotten.

andrebrito

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 60
Re: Does Wood Really Sound Warm?
« Reply #16 on: February 06, 2009, 08:18:31 pm »

Can you imagine a guitar made of concrete !?! hahaha
Logged
--------------
Acoustician and Musician

http://www.onlineacoustics.com - Projects and Products (RGP and Green Glue)

http://www.sonicflames.com - my crazy label

Bill_Urick

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1626
Re: Does Wood Really Sound Warm?
« Reply #17 on: February 06, 2009, 08:27:15 pm »

andrebrito wrote on Fri, 06 February 2009 20:18

Can you imagine a guitar made of concrete !?! hahaha


It would be way too heavy.
Logged
Good sense is, of all things among men, the most equally distributed; for everyone thinks himself so abundantly provided with it, that those even who are the most difficult to satisfy in everything else, do not usually desire a larger measure of this quality than they already possess.

andrebrito

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 60
Re: Does Wood Really Sound Warm?
« Reply #18 on: February 06, 2009, 08:40:48 pm »

Exactly, no more crazy rock 80's solo guitar and headbangers with guitars made of concrete... the world would really be a sad place lol
Logged
--------------
Acoustician and Musician

http://www.onlineacoustics.com - Projects and Products (RGP and Green Glue)

http://www.sonicflames.com - my crazy label

martindale

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 21
Re: Does Wood Really Sound Warm?
« Reply #19 on: February 07, 2009, 08:23:14 am »

Everything mentioned in this thread is "correct" and it's a good discussion---but wood LOOKS "warm", and utilizing wood carefully in a studio adds a psycho-acoustic effect into a design. We add nice wood elements, carefully placed to avoid reflections, or used diffusively, to "warm up" the look of a room, and it presents a total picture in the users mind of a cozy environment--if a room sounds great and looks great and then it all feels great to be in there. Of course, exposed wood will be mostly a reflective material, and where and how you install it should be considered carefully.  Used as flooring---well ANY floor except 6" shag carpet will be predominantly reflective, and considered in the acoustic calcs...but wood flooring can look marvelous, wood trim and features adds visual warmth and interest. Just consider the reflections.
Logged

Ethan Winer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 571
Re: Does Wood Really Sound Warm?
« Reply #20 on: February 07, 2009, 12:02:14 pm »

andrebrito wrote on Fri, 06 February 2009 06:54

From Acoustics of Wood book - pg. 22 - Voichita Bucur - Springer Editions


That's great Andre! But what thickness is the wood, and how was it mounted? It seems unintuitive to me that wood mounted on a solid substrate could absorb near 100 percent at midrange frequencies.

--Ethan

Ethan Winer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 571
Re: Does Wood Really Sound Warm?
« Reply #21 on: February 07, 2009, 12:07:01 pm »

Fig wrote on Fri, 06 February 2009 17:57

most musical instruments are made of the stuff.  Must be a reason, right?


Yes, but this is not a good analogy. Wood used in violins and cellos is very thin, and is shaped to intentionally vibrate. String instruments need strong resonances to create the desired timbre, and emphasize harmonics from the strings. But studios are never designed with intentional resonance! The purpose of resonating wood in studios is to absorb bass, not add high-Q resonances into the room. This is a common misconception, and I made that point in my article:

Quote:

I've seen people argue that wood adds a pleasing quality to a room in the same way wood affects the tone of a fine violin. But that's a false analogy because the thin, resonant wood in a violin is meant to vibrate and add pleasing overtones. Versus wood on a floor or wall that is much thicker, and is anchored solidly to the wall or floor backing. Indeed, resonances in a musical instrument are desirable and necessary, but good listening rooms must aim to avoid all resonances as much as possible.


--Ethan

andrebrito

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 60
Re: Does Wood Really Sound Warm?
« Reply #22 on: February 07, 2009, 01:51:37 pm »

I think this was tested in an impedance tube, would need to check the book again on the library
Logged
--------------
Acoustician and Musician

http://www.onlineacoustics.com - Projects and Products (RGP and Green Glue)

http://www.sonicflames.com - my crazy label

Thomas Jouanjean

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 342
Re: Does Wood Really Sound Warm?
« Reply #23 on: February 17, 2009, 01:41:12 pm »

Ethan Winer wrote on Sat, 07 February 2009 11:02

It seems unintuitive


Everything about acoustics is...
Logged
Thomas Jouanjean
Northward Acoustics - Engineering and Designs
http://www.northwardacoustics.com
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Northward-Acoustics/1062876633 71

Pro Audio Partners:
ATC Loudspeakers
FOCAL Professional Speakers

Ethan Winer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 571
Re: Does Wood Really Sound Warm?
« Reply #24 on: February 17, 2009, 05:28:45 pm »

Thomas Jouanjean wrote on Tue, 17 February 2009 13:41

Everything about acoustics is [unintuitive]


It makes no sense that wood on a slab could absorb 80 to 90 percent around 1 KHz. The data I've seen is more like 6 percent. So this tells me the wood in that test was thin and suspended in the air. Or at least not mounted flat and bonded to cement as is done for floors, which is the intent of my article.

--Ethan

andrebrito

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 60
Re: Does Wood Really Sound Warm?
« Reply #25 on: February 17, 2009, 09:30:27 pm »

test done in a impedance tube I think
Logged
--------------
Acoustician and Musician

http://www.onlineacoustics.com - Projects and Products (RGP and Green Glue)

http://www.sonicflames.com - my crazy label

Thomas Jouanjean

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 342
Re: Does Wood Really Sound Warm?
« Reply #26 on: February 18, 2009, 03:57:49 am »

Ethan Winer wrote on Tue, 17 February 2009 16:28

Thomas Jouanjean wrote on Tue, 17 February 2009 13:41

Everything about acoustics is [unintuitive]


It makes no sense that wood on a slab could absorb 80 to 90 percent around 1 KHz. The data I've seen is more like 6 percent. So this tells me the wood in that test was thin and suspended in the air. Or at least not mounted flat and bonded to cement as is done for floors, which is the intent of my article.

--Ethan

Ethan, the test was done in an impedance tube, like Andre said. So it can't be suspended in the air. But it's placed against something real hard and heavy (bottom of the tube) which implies high density, denser than cement. Don't confuse impedance tube test with reverb chamber tests.

The graph shows little absorption with perpendicular incidence. About what you mention, between 5 and 10%.

If the piece of wood were to resonate (and surely it does on it's own) it would be best excited  by a perpendicular incidence. The graph tends to rule out that phenomenon to explain the absorptive behaviour with incidence as the piece is placed against something hard. It's therefore dampened.

It could be a measurement problem, I just had a chat about it with a colleague from Leuven University which does those tests now and then, and while unlikely, he said it could be the result of a leak in the tube seal around the sample. But don't you jump to conclusions too fast because this measurement was likely performed by the book or it would not have been published and I would not question it so far.

Although the test results show important coefficients when an incidence other than 0
Logged
Thomas Jouanjean
Northward Acoustics - Engineering and Designs
http://www.northwardacoustics.com
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Northward-Acoustics/1062876633 71

Pro Audio Partners:
ATC Loudspeakers
FOCAL Professional Speakers

Ethan Winer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 571
Re: Does Wood Really Sound Warm?
« Reply #27 on: February 18, 2009, 11:17:37 am »

Thomas Jouanjean wrote on Wed, 18 February 2009 03:57

Ethan, the test was done in an impedance tube, like Andre said. So it can't be suspended in the air. But it's placed against something real hard and heavy (bottom of the tube) which implies high density, denser than cement. Don't confuse impedance tube test with reverb chamber tests.


I know about impedance tubes and I know how they're different from reverb rooms. If the wood sample were placed against a solid backing, then how could they have measured at different angles? My guess is it was a thin piece of unattached wood, rotated in free air at the far end of the tube. So the wood panel itself was likely resonating and thus absorbing. You say "We need more data" and I agree. In this case we need to know more details about the test! Very Happy

Quote:

The graph shows little absorption with perpendicular incidence. About what you mention, between 5 and 10%. If the piece of wood were to resonate (and surely it does on it's own) it would be best excited by a perpendicular incidence.


Perpendicular is 90 degrees, yes?

Quote:

For your article to be worth any definitive conclusion, you'd have to measure in a reverb room with a parquet installed and without.


The data I used to calculate reflectivity was presumably measured in a lab. So I don't know why it shouldn't be considered valid.

--Ethan

Thomas Jouanjean

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 342
Re: Does Wood Really Sound Warm?
« Reply #28 on: February 18, 2009, 11:29:10 am »

IIRC, 0
Logged
Thomas Jouanjean
Northward Acoustics - Engineering and Designs
http://www.northwardacoustics.com
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Northward-Acoustics/1062876633 71

Pro Audio Partners:
ATC Loudspeakers
FOCAL Professional Speakers

Ethan Winer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 571
Re: Does Wood Really Sound Warm?
« Reply #29 on: February 18, 2009, 12:22:06 pm »

I don't know for sure either, but it seems that absorption would be maximum on axis and minimum when "grazing" edgewise.

The bottom line for me is that it makes no sense that a slab of wood bonded to solid cement can absorb 1 KHz by 80 to 90 percent at any angle!

The huge drop in absorption around 3 KHz is also very telling, no?

--Ethan
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4  All   Go Up