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[zmix]

Brian Eno : Truth About Israel

[MDM,]

Good thing he's public about this, as many famous personalities are simply afraid and/or don't care enough to speak.

I like the comment he makes on Israel being born as a result of the Holocaust, and then Israel doing the same thing to Palestinians.

behind it all there are people who cannot be called Jewish, or Christian or Muslim.. because no religious man goes around killing and exploiting on purpose.

We are dealing with the instigators of war and destruction, the same kind of people who backed up major wars in the past, including the nazi war and the Holocaust.. people with no national or religious identity.. motivated only by power, money etc.. ready to blame the weak and defenceless for their own evil.

sick.

I wonder, now that the war has gone past the 'trickle mode' of the past what are they planning to do next?  must be a political reason .. no?

[ssltech]

See, Mr. Eno is one of them 'clever' people... who you really shouldn't listen to.

Thank the lord that "Joe" (real name Samuel) "the Plumber" (not a licensed plumber) has been sent out there to "uncover the real truth".

Yep. That's what we need. Untrained "reporters" being 'snowed' by the Israelis. 'Unbiased' reporting (from someone who declared before the election that: 'a vote for Obama would be a vote for the destruction of Israel')... -Thank the lord for Joe the Plant.

That's who I want to be doing my thinking for me. -Not one of those "thinkers" like Mr. Eno.

Keith

[YZ]

The 'truth about Israel'?

well, how about this: the people living in Judea and Samaria have not been launching missiles against Israeli children and civilians, and Israel is not counter-attacking there.

Some people, members of a group supported by Iran and known for murdering those of their own people who have a different opinion, have been launching missiles against Israeli children and civilians from Gaza.
They launch their attacks from and store their weapons in schools, residential neighborhoods, near hospitals and such.

Israel is counter-attacking.

If the Israeli missiles/bombs were not carefully aimed and sized, the death toll would have reached by now the tens of thousands, not the hundreds that both sides and the UN mention.

It is easy to blame Israel for everything, it is easy to say that the problems of Gaza are solely a result of Israeli actions; it is not easy to actually do some research and find out what had happened there over the last 60 or so years.

[zmix]

2 comments.

1  Brian Eno's Mother was imprisoned in a Nazi concentration camp.

2:  Please watch this:


Peace, Propaganda and the Promised Land: Media & the Israel-Palestine Conflict

[Bill_Urick]

 
From

http://www.shardmedia.com/journalismandthearabworld/index.ph p?option=content&pcontent=1&task=view&id=38& Itemid=43

Quote:

Bathsheba Ratzkoff is a producer and editor at the Media Education Foundation. She is the producer, co-director and co-editor of the documentary “Peace Propaganda & the Promised Land: U.S. Media & the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict.” She is also an associate producer on the documentary “Hijacking Catastrophe: 9/11, Fear & the Selling of American Empire.” Ratzkoff is currently producing a film called “Reel Bad Arabs: How Hollywood Vilifies A People.”

http://www.mediaed.org/wp/staff

[Bill_Urick]

zmix wrote on Mon, 12 January 2009 22:34

2 comments. 1  Brian Eno's Mother was imprisoned in a Nazi concentration camp. 2:  Please watch this: Peace, Propaganda and the Promised Land: Media & the Israel-Palestine Conflict

Re point one, can you verify this? How did the mother of "Brian Peter George St. John le Baptiste de la Salle Eno...born in Woodbridge, England, on May 15, 1948." Come to be imprisoned by the Nazis? Not necessarily disputing this, it just seems incongruous.

[maxim]

fwiw, my father had to be evacuated from moscow with his mother, so as not to end up in a camp, like his relatives from byelorussia

"the end justifies the means" is EXACTLY the philosophy that resulted in the murder of innocent civillians, jews and otherwise, throughout human history

that is why i don't want to see israel going down the same path

white phosphorus missiles?

what the hell!!!
.

[zmix]

Bill_Urick wrote on Mon, 12 January 2009 23:12

zmix wrote on Mon, 12 January 2009 22:34 2 comments. 1  Brian Eno's Mother was imprisoned in a Nazi concentration camp. 2:  Please watch this: Peace, Propaganda and the Promised Land: Media & the Israel-Palestine Conflict Re point one, can you verify this? How did the mother of "Brian Peter George St. John le Baptiste de la Salle Eno...born in Woodbridge, England, on May 15, 1948." Come to be imprisoned by the Nazis? Not necessarily disputing this, it just seems incongruous.

Inconguous?  

How so?


PS: Why did you post the photo and link of  Ms. Ratzkoff above?

[YZ]

maxim wrote on Tue, 13 January 2009 02:54

"the end justifies the means"

That's not what I am saying.

I am saying: if a country gets repeatedly attacked by a group that has sworn to obliterate that country, it has to defend itself; diplomatic means have been tried, unsuccessfully; there's no option left, Hamas gave no other option to Israel.

In the past, the Gaza government justified their non-action against terrorists by saying that the attacks were perpetrated by 'rebel' groups, that they were too weak and if Israel gave them weapons and training maybe they could control such rebels (yeah right) but now... Hamas IS the government.

This makes it all different: we do not have the case of a faction or rogue group attacking a country, we now have one official government (Hamas/Gaza) using its armed forces to attack another country; this has been traditionally seen during the history of mankind as a de facto declaration of war and the other country has to counter-attack and destroy the menace.

A nation cannot sit idle when bombed daily, specially by an organization that has sworn to destroy that nation and kill all of the population like Hamas did.

Contrast this against Samaria and Judea, where there's peace right now.

I would prefer no war at all, I am quite saddened by the happenings, people are dying and this is not good.

[Careful Collapse]

A significant Israeli population needs to refrain from myopic, hamfisted, counterproductive conduct like treating the Palestinieans as subhumans.

A significant Palestinian population needs to stop supporting myopic, hamfisted, counterproductive organizations like Hamas.

Israeli military needs to stop using the myopic, hamfisted, counterproductive bullshit of Hamas and similar groups as an excuse to engage in their own myopic, hamfisted, counterproductive overreactions.

A significant Palestinian population needs to stop using the myopic, hamfisted, counterproductive military excesses of Israel as an excuse to throw myopic, hamfisted, counterproductive terror-tantrums, which leads back to the first point which leads to the second point, etc, etc, cycle through (Yes, I'm being redundant and longwinded now)

Is any of this going to happen?  Probably not.  Both sides make me absolutely sick to my ass and are embarassing to humanity, frankly.  I find it puzzling that ANYONE can take a side in this.

[Bill_Urick]

zmix wrote on Tue, 13 January 2009 00:18

Inconguous?   How so? PS: Why did you post the photo and link of  Ms. Ratzkoff above?

Chuck, happy new year. I've made a couple of resolutions regarding my interactions at REP and here in the Saloon in particular. First, try to know a little more about the people I'm talking to, and second, use this as an opportunity to learn about different points of view rather than to confront and pontificate.

Toward that end I checked out your website and, wow, nice body of work.

In general, I've always been very supportive of Israel and I've never understood why the political left has not.

Although the Nazis imprisoned lots of people for different reasons, they mainly imprisoned Jews. Your assertion about Mr. Eno's mother might be taken, in the context presented, that she was imprisoned for being Jewish, is that correct? She certainly could have been released and subsequently given birth to Mr. Eno in Woodbridge, but can you verify the facts? Also, if true, does a Jewish heritage make someone's criticism of Israel beyond question?

Regarding Ms. Ratzkoff, I wanted to see who produced the video you referenced. Her work could be seen as consistently pro-Arab and anti-west. But she's a cutie!      

[YZ]

Careful Collapse wrote on Tue, 13 January 2009 09:23

A significant Israeli population needs to refrain from myopic, hamfisted, counterproductive conduct like treating the Palestinieans as subhumans.

The majority of Israelis do not think or behave the way you myopically and ignorantly described above.

I lived in Israel for two years and I know it from personal experience.

Quote:

A significant Palestinian population needs to stop supporting myopic, hamfisted, counterproductive organizations like Hamas.

A significant palestinian population has been subjected to brainwashing from an early age and were raised to hate Jews and Israel; there's substantial evidence of that.

Quote:

Israeli military needs to stop using the myopic, hamfisted, counterproductive bullshit of Hamas and similar groups as an excuse to engage in their own myopic, hamfisted, counterproductive overreactions.

On the contrary, Israel has been surprisingly restrained; their armed forces could have obliterated the enemies (causing tens of thousands of deaths in the process) but Israel chooses always to minimize death.

Quote:

A significant Palestinian population needs to stop using the myopic, hamfisted, counterproductive military excesses of Israel(snip)

See above.

Quote:

Is any of this going to happen?  Probably not.  Both sides make me absolutely sick to my ass and are embarassing to humanity, frankly.  I find it puzzling that ANYONE can take a side in this.

You are entitled to an opinion.

But do not forget that Hamas and other organizations have sworn to kill all Jews and to destroy Israel, and they put that as the first priority, above the actual creation of a state for them. Hard to negotiate under such circumstances.

As Golda Meir once said: "Peace will only happen when the arabs start loving their children more than they hate us".

Please note that at the time the above was said, there was no talk of a 'palestinian people' amongst arabs (nor by anyone else); Israel's neighboring states were engaged in the destruction of Israel to later divide the land amongst them.
When Gaza was a part of Egypt, there was no talk of giving it away for the local population; when Judea and Samaria were under Jordanian control, there was no talk of creating there a state for the locals either. That's why Meir said 'arabs' instead of 'palestinians'.

It was only after Israel's enemies lost the 1967 war and Israel conquered those places that the notion of a 'palestinian people', separated from the other arab populations and with an 'historic right to the land' emerged.

It is sad to note that until today the priority of the so-called pro-palestine terrorists is still the destruction of Israel and not the creation of their state.

[zmix]

Bill_Urick wrote on Tue, 13 January 2009 08:24

zmix wrote on Tue, 13 January 2009 00:18 Inconguous?   How so? PS: Why did you post the photo and link of  Ms. Ratzkoff above? Chuck, happy new year. I've made a couple of resolutions regarding my interactions at REP and here in the Saloon in particular. First, try to know a little more about the people I'm talking to, and second, use this as an opportunity to learn about different points of view rather than to confront and pontificate. Toward that end I checked out your website and, wow, nice body of work. In general, I've always been very supportive of Israel and I've never understood why the political left has not. Although the Nazis imprisoned lots of people for different reasons, they mainly imprisoned Jews. Your assertion about Mr. Eno's mother might be taken, in the context presented, that she was imprisoned for being Jewish, is that correct? She certainly could have been released and subsequently given birth to Mr. Eno in Woodbridge, but can you verify the facts? Also, if true, does a Jewish heritage make someone's criticism of Israel beyond question? Regarding Ms. Ratzkoff, I wanted to see who produced the video you referenced. Her work could be seen as consistently pro-Arab and anti-west. But she's a cutie!

Bill,

Thanks for the kind words and the new approach.

Ms. Ratzkoff is not "pro-Arab, anti-west", please watch her work, then decide.  Also, note that she herself is Jewish.


Eno is not Jewish. The fact that his mother was in a Nazi concentration camp should not lead to that assumption. There were as many non Jews as there were Jews in the concentration camps. Some studies indicate that there were more non Jews killed in the camps.

The documentary linked above attempts to dispel several myths about the situation between Israel and Palestine, one important point (noted by Rabbis, Jewish scholars and Israeli politicians in the film) is that "Anti-Israel policy" does NOT equate with anti-semitism, and that this argument trivializes REAL anti semitism.

Watch the film.

[sui-city]

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