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[Nick Sevilla]

Yes. I am going to investigate and end up with mics that I am happy with, no matter what they end up being.

I have been over the whole "you have to have x mic with x preamp with x compressor" to get the sound, for a while now.

My mic collection is going to grow, and the missing ones are some of the classics. Maybe I get lucky and get one or two that are both. But, until I get there, I won't know.

Cheers,

Nick

[bob ebeling]

Just be careful with those vintage mics.  So many out there with major issues.  Guys are getting smarter and faking parts, it's a mess.  All that aside, I've still found some great buys, on e-bay even, but you have to negotiate no nonsense terms up front and use paypal with a credit card (giving you 2 ways to get your money back).  

[Nick Sevilla]

Hi Bob,

Thanks for the tip.

My plan, if I decide to buy a vintage mic, is to be able to inspect it myself, and use an Escrow service, to guarantee the seller that nothing happens to his mic, or I pay for it. With Escrow, the seller knows the money is there, with no chance of me playing games. Hopefully this is enough for the seller to know I am serious.

Also, I expect to be able to talk to whichever tech person that has serviced the microphone regularly, for a good opinion as to the actual condition of the mic. This way I can better judge if the mic is worth what the seller is asking for it, and if it needs repairs, etc... I don't expect "mint" but I would expect a mic that works and is a good representation of the model.

As another requisite, I expect the seller to give me references of people that can assure me of the integrity of the seller. These references naturally should be people I know as well, so there is no chance that there could be any dodgy stuff going on. Usually, if the tech is known and trusted by the community, he can be one reference.

Cheers,

Nick

[bob ebeling]

I know earlier the discussion was revolving around 251's.  Is that your general direction?  251/c12?

[Nick Sevilla]

Actually, I hope to get 2-3 mics total.

One U47, One C12, and maybe, one ELA M251.

Of course, depending on what I find, it may or may not end up being those, but in general, those three mic types is what would pretty much complete my mic collection.

I think I will not end up finding an original ELAM251, unless I get very lucky, or one of the two people I know who own one are willing to part with theirs. In this case, finding a good mic that is close in sound to it will suffice for me.

As to the U47, I'm sure there will be an example out there, I just have to find it, or it find me... same for the C12.

Terry here was kind enough to suggest I try the Bock 251, he found it quite pleasing to hear. I will try that one out.

Cheers,

Nick

[Barry Hufker]

I really do second J.J.'s suggestion about an M49.  It is the smooth, dark, sweet sound which stands in contrast to the U47, C12 and 251.

[bob ebeling]

On the u47 tip it is definitely worth checking into the Wunder Audio CM7, and the Wagner get's raved up.

Also, you could call the good vintage houses like Vintage King and Sonic Circus and put them on notice that you're ready to pay if a 47 or 12 pops up.  I would get Mike Nehra's e-mail from Vintage King and try to write to him because he's the man for searches like this.  

Also, kinda obvious I guess, but you could seek a U48 too.

[Klaus Heyne]

bob ebeling wrote on Sun, 11 January 2009 09:23

On the u47 tip it is definitely worth checking into the Wunder Audio CM7, and the Wagner get's raved up.

Do you have first-hand experience with these mics?
Thanks,

[bob ebeling]

Yes.  First hand experience.

They're both very nice versions.  The Wunder, to me, sounded more idealized, euphonic, fun, smiley a bit.  The Wagner, to me, sounded like more of a classical interpretation, low mid bump in the right place.  I can see why people pay (a lot of money) for both, though.    

[Martin Kantola]

While it's impossible to deny the beauty of the vintage classics, I want to share some hope for the future too.

When I begun my mission to try to build myself a great condenser microphone, I had no idea where exactly the magic happened, only knew that it was present in the circa 1953 long body U47 I had the privilege of owning and working with. Almost twenty years later, it's still a great microphone, and if there were a Church of U47 I'd probably join it

So what have I learned in all this time? Most importantly perhaps that the magic doesn't reside in only one or two of the components that make up a microphone, but instead more or less everything is important. This also means that IMHO any of the components can be replaced with something else and the magic is still preserved, but a careless replacement can also cause a slight mismatch such as with the Nuvistor modification and upset the fine balance, sometimes to a point where the magic is all but gone.

The good news is that it's still possible in this day to build not only good but great new microphones. Attempted cloning or re-issues of the Great Ones must be more than skin deep and attention to detail is a must. But sometimes I feel that cold cloning takes us away from what microphone building should be about, which to me is creating something beautiful with not only technical knowledge but also real passion and musical sensitivity to the fine nuances, and treating the microphone almost like an organic entity where the sum is far greater than the parts.

That's what I believe made the U47 a great microphone in the first place, not the materials and parts available at the time.

Martin

[bob ebeling]

Amen Martin.  It's great what is happening now with boutique mics.  It's great that people are pouring so much effort into climbing the sacred mountain, not just to kneel at the alter of U47, but to pray for new gods simultaneously.  
Your balance of new vs. old, clone vs. inspiration, and the veiw of the microphone as an organic entity unto itself is the root belief that is bringing (finally) great microphones back once again.  

[Eric H.]

Barry Hufker wrote on Sun, 11 January 2009 04:27

I really do second J.J.'s suggestion about an M49.  It is the smooth, dark, sweet sound which stands in contrast to the U47, C12 and 251.

The problem with the M49, which I've been looking for for 7 months now, is that those for sale are mostly M49 with re-skinned M7 with new PSU and probably new cable also. I don't know how they sound.

[Martin Kantola]

Replacing the cable and PSU should not affect the sound at all if done properly. In fact it's probably a good thing only, unless you are a collector.

As for the capsule, it's been said many times, but there are no original M7s in good working order left now, practically speaking. This is because of the PVC aging. So it all depends on how well the re-skinning was done.

Martin

[Martin Kantola]

bob ebeling wrote on Mon, 12 January 2009 23:01

Amen Martin.

Thanks Bob! I'm sorry if I steered the thread slightly off topic, but to me it's a big deal. When the last VF14s and AC701s and original M7s are gone, what then? We have to make sure there's something new, and it can't be a compromise sound wise. While I agree that microphone design was nearly perfected decades ago from a musical point of view, there's a lot of work to be done. Can't help feeling the engineers got seriously sidetracked by things such as solid state, phantom power and miniaturization...

Martin

[compasspnt]

Martin Kantola wrote on Tue, 13 January 2009 10:19

Can't help feeling the engineers got seriously sidetracked by things such as solid state, phantom power and miniaturization...

Amen to THAT. But I would amend it slightly to say that the COMPANIES that hired the engineers were often the ones leading the sidetracking. Many of the engineers would have been very happy to continually live in the tube and transformer world, and take things further and further along a good road.