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[Rob G]

All,

Which software package in your opinion has the best set of plugins?

Rob G.

[Erik]

Neither offering represents anything close to the state of the art in digital signal processing in hardware or software.

The key guy involved with many of the plug-ins in the Waves Gold bundle (Michael Gerzon) passed away in 1996.

This is some old shit, man.

Waves has shifted from a technology/R&D company into a marketing company.  They're more interested in getting MaxxBass (which removes bass) into cheap TV sets than they are in innovating audio.  

Probably a smart business move, but it's not exactly going to result in SUPER AWESOME EFFECTS for folks who want to debate the merits of plug-ins in Logic.

Several of Waves' recent "technologies" have come from outside developers, simply repackaged and ported by Waves.  Waves last interesting development was C4 which is going on 5 years ago.

Since then they're intent on slapping a new slider on a product and renaming it, then inventing a new bundle around it.  It floods product into retail but it doesn't exactly move the art or science forward.

Likewise the Emagic stuff is a testament to quantity over quality.  Their marketing is slick and they have a devoted European fan base, but the stuff is pretty weak compared to even the b-list companies that live digital audio effects day in and day out.

There are plenty of 1, 2 and 3 man shops out there that rely on innovation to put food on their tables and they should be supported.

--Erik

[Eliott James]

Eric, correct me if I'm wrong, but your plug-ins aren't built for native AUs, are they? Wish they were! Any chance of this?

[Erik]

EJ wrote on Wed, 30 June 2004 12:32

Eric, correct me if I'm wrong, but your plug-ins aren't built for native AUs, are they? Wish they were! Any chance of this?

Digidesign acquired the Bomb Factory plug-ins at the beginning of the year.  

Prior to that I was not convinced of the viability of AU as a plug-in format.  Although it's maturing, this was not one of those places where being first to market was going to provide any sort of advantage.

There remain only two sensible specs at the moment:

VST which can be run using the wrapper in Mac AU hosts and also works on Windows; great for sub $99 products.  Although Steinberg is a bunch of dysfunctional monkeys, Adobe is now supporting VST so it's not going anywhere.

TDM (and, if you want to be nice, AS/RTAS for TDM users who also edit at home on native rigs) which are the only formats where actual money can be made.

--Erik

[Rob G]

Erik, & All,

So you're all saying by vote, & reply that Emagic's plug-ins hold no weight in comparison to the Waves Gold bundle?  And that Waves plug's are just relabeled versions of previous versions?  What about Emagic's - Space Designer?  Not a good plugin?  Sure they're not on MDW's level, but how many other plug's are?

I use the Logic Pro plug's in my HD-3 system right along with MDW, & other reknown plugs, & they work just fine.  MDW is not the best EQ for everything but neither is the Emagic Silver EQ, or URS Everything Bundle EQ's.  Depends on the project, & track from my perspective.

'Rob G'.

[Erik]

I'd go as far as to say that for ANY given task, you can find a better tool than a Waves or an Emagic plug-in.

Beyond that, the Waves bundle and the Emagic stuff have next to nothing in common.  They don't support the same hosts and they don't do the same things.  As far as I'm concerned you're comparing moldy apples to moldy oranges because neither company represents the state of the art in signal processing.

--Erik

[drew]

So what IS good Erik? just curious.

[Rob G]

Erik,

Quote:.....They don't support the same hosts and they don't do the same things.......

-Erik


Now wait a minute.  Waves Gold Bundle plugins, & Logic Pro's plugins both work on the Mac platform whether it be host, or TDM.  The forementioned Waves plugins work along with Logic Pro's plugins via Audio Units(OSX), & VST(OS 9) in Logic Pro(host wise).  Logic Pro's plugins work right along with the forementioned Waves plugins in the TDM world via Logic Pro's ESB TDM plugin.  This works(without question).  I use this set up in one way, or another through out my regular work week.  Also Logic Pro has EQ's, Compressors, Flangers, & etc. just like the Waves Gold Bundle does(host ,or TDM version).  Please clarify your statement.

'Rob G'.

[Erik]

If you're talking about using this stuff in Logic, then what's the point?  Are you asking whether you should add the cheap bundle of Waves crap to the really cheap bundle of crap that comes with Logic?

Likewise there's a big difference between being "TDM compatible" via ESB versus being an actual TDM plug-in.

There are vastly different processors in both bundles.  Yes, they both have comps, reverbs and EQ but they don't really line up if you compare feature to feature.

And if you're on Windows or TDM it's a pointless comparison anyway.

I'm not sure what the point of the poll is.  Price?  Performance?  Quality?  Waves Gold isn't even the most desirable Waves bundle, and I use the term "desirable" loosely.

I am, however very sure that you can do FAR better by going elsewhere for your processing regardless of what you're trying to do or what platform you're trying to do it on.

I'm not going to name names, but if you invest even a few hours doing listening tests before you shell out your money, you'll be able to figure it out.

--Erik

[Rob G]

Erik,

Quote:"If you're talking about using this stuff in Logic, then what's the point? Are you asking whether you should add the cheap bundle of Waves crap to the really cheap bundle of crap that comes with Logic?

Likewise there's a big difference between being "TDM compatible" via ESB versus being an actual TDM plug-in."

                       -Erik

No.  I'm not necessarily talking about using these plugins just in Logic.  I'm asking for 'objective' opinions regarding which plugin bundle overall has the highest, or better quality plugins between the two irregardless of host, OS system, or TDM compatibility.  The Waves Gold, & Logic Pro plugins to me are like two different toolbox sets of generic 'bread & butter' plugins.  Not necessarily the highest quality plugins but useful.  Like your general hardware store bought flashlight.  Not the night vision goggles ,or electron microscope that the MDW EQ plugin is.  So do you have an opinion in this area based upon the forementioned criteria I've set forth.

'Rob G.'

[Tim Gilles]

I find the resident emagic stuff a mixed bag.

Some of the plugs are marvelous for 'standard housekeeping' tasks.

Most are EXTREMELY CPU efficient.

Some are almost utterly worthless. Unusable in most circumstances.

The 'multiband comp' and the 'limiter' being 2 prime examples of the 'junk' Erik is speaking about.

They just don't work correctly(in the fashion one would expect) in most situations.

The channel EQ is fairly good given it's humble nature and low CPU drain, however, a close look at the performance of this device also reveals some very basic design flaws. ie. RAMPANT 'Overshoots' in 'cut' situations, even after input gain is ATTENUATED.

Nothing in these plugs is STELLAR IMHO.

OTOH, my shop has mixed literally hundreds of released records using these plugs for various tasks..... I suppose that this is for the "practical aspect" reasons of: ease of use, familiarity and CPU drain issues.

When I want what I consider 'hi-fi' quality and/or HEAVYHANDED manipulation of signals in my mix topologies....

I don't turn to digital plug-ins.

I will be happy to see this change someday, hopefully.

Best to all.

Rumblefish