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[Fibes]

First of all I'd ask the ME if he was happy with his work and to check his master against what was sent out. Once the benefit of the doubt is gone, ask the ME if he's ready to do a re-cut, if he hedges and says that's his best that's where things get funny.

And by funny i mean, ugly.

Who hired and recommended this ME.



I went to bat on a record hat the label hired the ME on, he made the bluegrass louder than anything short of Mars Volta, skewed the phase, ruined the mids and it hurt to listen to.

The ME said who is paying my bill?

Then when I told him the label was he refused to talk to me, the engineer. mixer and producer.

Twas nominated for an award.

Go figure.

[bblackwood]

Fibes wrote on Mon, 29 December 2008 09:08

The ME said who is paying my bill? Then when I told him the label was he refused to talk to me, the engineer. mixer and producer.

Wow - sounds like he's really in it to help the art...

</sarcasm>

[T. Mueller]

I wish I had the <sarcasm> tag.  Sounds like the client shoulda gone with J's usual recommendation for an ME, Brad.  (AKA, Brad.)  

Glad it's not my work.

: )

[RSettee]

j.hall wrote on Mon, 22 December 2008 09:49

a good friend got a master back just recently.  first off, the ME asked him to resubmit the mixes without any 2buss processing (LAME!!!!!!!).  then the master comes back.  the stereo width is narrowed almost to the point of mono and the top end is so awful it sounds like white noise was added (or just the noise floor) to the mixes. so what would you guys do if this happened to a project you worked on.  assume the client has not commented on the master yet. do you say something? do you just let it go?

This is where a producer comes in handy, so he can intervene and be the bad guy, ha ha.

I'd ask the mastering engineer to re-do it. Any credible ME should listen to critiques and then do something that the band is happy with--they might charge extra studio time, but if the band is that unhappy with it, perhaps the mastering engineer misheard what the band wanted and there was a communication error.

What was the client/ band's requests? Did they say anything to the mastering engineer to begin with, in what they wanted? It's always best to be clear, so that everyone has the same goal. If they were clear and it didn't meet the expectations, mono mixes or stereo imaging altering is starting to make taste decisions on the mixes, and that's not a good thing....an ME should just be taking what's there and putting the final touches on it.

[Nick Sevilla]

j.hall wrote on Mon, 22 December 2008 07:49

a good friend got a master back just recently.  first off, the ME asked him to resubmit the mixes without any 2buss processing (LAME!!!!!!!).  then the master comes back.  the stereo width is narrowed almost to the point of mono and the top end is so awful it sounds like white noise was added (or just the noise floor) to the mixes. so what would you guys do if this happened to a project you worked on.  assume the client has not commented on the master yet. do you say something? do you just let it go?

If your name is on the record, and you care about that credit, then you should say something.

Some thoughts:

1.- Who asked for this ME?
2.- Who is paying the ME?
3.- Who was there with the ME while he mastered?
4.- Personally I do not deliver mixes with any stereo buss processing on my end, so the ME can do what he needs, so I do understand his request. But that being said, if the buss processing is an integral part of the mix sound, he should respect this fact.

I just delivered an album to a mastering house, and was able to be there for the entire process (8 hours). It was a wonderful experience. I recommend that whomever is in charge be in the mastering process as well. Any issues can be resolved right there, before they get out to the artist and others involved.

Cheers

[DJC8902]

Wondering, have you heard the unmastered mixes? It is not uncommon for a mastering engineer to ask a client to remove the 2 bus processing if it is posing a problem.

[bblackwood]

DJC8902 wrote on Sun, 11 January 2009 22:13

Wondering, have you heard the unmastered mixes? It is not uncommon for a mastering engineer to ask a client to remove the 2 bus processing if it is posing a problem.

Seriously? You think this is an issue with 2-buss processing?

Just asking, based on the information given thus-far. And FWIW, any mastering engineer that recommends the removal of buss processing instead of trying to help the mixer achieve their goals has their priorities screwed up.

[Patrik T]

bblackwood wrote on Mon, 12 January 2009 06:07

And FWIW, any mastering engineer that recommends the removal of buss processing instead of trying to help the mixer achieve their goals has their priorities screwed up.

This is so very true.

And - if the ME says somthing like "I can't use my own compressors if it's already compressed" it should set off some kind of alarm.


Patrik

[mcsnare]

Quote:

Wondering, have you heard the unmastered mixes? It is not uncommon for a mastering engineer to ask a client to remove the 2 bus processing if it is posing a problem.

Not sure about anywhere else but around here I've never heard of the M.E. asking the client to remove a 2 bus compressor. Maybe once in a while a limiter or excessive eq. Not that I'm trying to encourage the use of excessive bus compression, but whatever compression my man wants to slap on his mix is his biznezz.

Dave

[DJC8902]

I can't really say whether it's a 2 bus abuse situation, as I've not heard the recording in question, have any of you? I've worked in a mastering studio, and I've heard mixes come in "pre mastering" that have problems that if heard by 9 out of 10 people, they would blame it on mastering. I'm sure you must relate Brad. And yes, it's probably best to try and work with the engineer to achieve the best results possible, but that is a generalization and many different sets of circumstances could make that difficult, as I'm sure you are also aware.

[imdrecordings]

Sounds like the Mastering forum found it's new WUMP submission.

[Nick Sevilla]

Patrik T wrote on Mon, 12 January 2009 08:03

bblackwood wrote on Mon, 12 January 2009 06:07 And FWIW, any mastering engineer that recommends the removal of buss processing instead of trying to help the mixer achieve their goals has their priorities screwed up. This is so very true. And - if the ME says somthing like "I can't use my own compressors if it's already compressed" it should set off some kind of alarm. Patrik

Unless it really is THAT compressed, to a point that the ME really has no headroom to do much more than stare at it...

Every Me I've ever worked with prefers a mix that does not have any stereo buss processing, and if that cannot be removed, then they ask for a mix with and a mix without, to compare with.

Cheers

[j.hall]

DJC8902 wrote on Mon, 12 January 2009 14:26

I can't really say whether it's a 2 bus abuse situation, as I've not heard the recording in question, have any of you?

yes, i have.

[j.hall]

Nick Sevilla wrote on Tue, 13 January 2009 11:00

Every Me I've ever worked with prefers a mix that does not have any stereo buss processing, and if that cannot be removed, then they ask for a mix with and a mix without, to compare with. Cheers

odd.  i haven't worked with a single ME that's requested "no 2 buss processing."

you guys really think Ted Jensen is going to call you up and say, "hey man, you should know better then to send me compressed mixes........"??????

come on.........pick any "well established" ME, look at his/her credits, look up who mixed the records and do the math.  

i highly doubt these people are asking TLA, CLA, rich costey, bob clearmountain, andy wallace, Mike Shipley, Skidd Mills, and countless others to remove their 2 buss processing.

in fact, i would venture to say that the mastering process is one reason that mixers started using heavier 2 buss processing.  it gets real old having your balances change after you spent so much time and energy creating them in the first place.

[Nick Sevilla]

j.hall wrote on Wed, 14 January 2009 07:39

Nick Sevilla wrote on Tue, 13 January 2009 11:00 Every Me I've ever worked with prefers a mix that does not have any stereo buss processing, and if that cannot be removed, then they ask for a mix with and a mix without, to compare with. Cheers odd.  i haven't worked with a single ME that's requested "no 2 buss processing." you guys really think Ted Jensen is going to call you up and say, "hey man, you should know better then to send me compressed mixes........"?????? come on.........pick any "well established" ME, look at his/her credits, look up who mixed the records and do the math.   i highly doubt these people are asking TLA, CLA, rich costey, bob clearmountain, andy wallace, Mike Shipley, Skidd Mills, and countless others to remove their 2 buss processing. in fact, i would venture to say that the mastering process is one reason that mixers started using heavier 2 buss processing.  it gets real old having your balances change after you spent so much time and energy creating them in the first place.

Hi J,

I said "prefers" and not "requests" those are two different words, with different meanings. If the mix engineers do not like the mastering being done to their mixes, they can always try to have a constructive dialogue with the ME, in order to both defend their mix, but also to try to understand why the Me has done what has been done to their mixes.

I have had mixes slaughtered by ME's in the past, however, if the artist and the label are happy, who am I to go against that? They are getting what they want. If however, the artist and or the label do NOT get back from the Me what they want, that is the time to make the changes. I have also had to master a few albums myself, after getting complaints from the artist and label about the ME's poor job.

This is why I try to accomodate the ME, and do not use stereo buss processing. I try hard to make my mixes work without needing "glue" at the mix buss. I try to make the mixes work on their own, so that the ME can do a good job of making an album out of the collection of songs (not an easy task, sometimes)

Cheers