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Author Topic: RE 20 or SM 7B  (Read 10497 times)

C.Cash

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RE 20 or SM 7B
« on: November 26, 2008, 11:43:35 am »

EV RE20 and the Shure SM7B.

Of these 2 mics which one will be more practical and useful in the studio?

Thanks.
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hargerst

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Re: RE 20 or SM 7B
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2008, 11:53:07 am »

We have both, and the SM7 gets the most use.
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Harvey "Is that the right note?" Gerst
Indian Trail Recording Studio

C.Cash

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Re: RE 20 or SM 7B
« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2008, 12:07:33 pm »

What do you use it on mostly?

Thanks.
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hargerst

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Re: RE 20 or SM 7B
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2008, 04:30:33 pm »

C.Cash wrote on Wed, 26 November 2008 11:07

What do you use it on mostly?

Thanks.


Vocals, hihats, snare, toms, electric guitars.
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Harvey "Is that the right note?" Gerst
Indian Trail Recording Studio

DarinK

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Re: RE 20 or SM 7B
« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2008, 06:06:57 pm »

I prefer the RE 20 for bass amps, bass drums & sometimes floor toms, but generally prefer the SM7b for the stuff Harvey mentioned (except I've never thought to try it on hihat). Sorry to stretch the bounds of this thread, but where would  Heil PR40 fit into this?  Or is it too much of an orange to compare to these apples?

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hargerst

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Re: RE 20 or SM 7B
« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2008, 01:26:18 am »

It's no stretch; I like the AKG D112 for bass amps. The small Heil (PR30?) works great for us on guitar cabs, along with a few other mics we blend in with the Heil.
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Harvey "Is that the right note?" Gerst
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jonathan jetter

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Re: RE 20 or SM 7B
« Reply #6 on: November 27, 2008, 01:53:21 am »

the SM7 is a badass mic.

im finishing up my band's record and the SM7 was the choice for bass, guitar, and vocals (lead vocal....SM7 ---> API 312---> Purple MC77.  sounded perfect right from the start)
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maarvold

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Re: RE 20 or SM 7B
« Reply #7 on: November 27, 2008, 02:52:02 am »

I didn't like it right away, but a friend kept telling me to use my SM7 on kick.  Now it is almost the only thing I use.  I love it.  
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C.Cash

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Re: RE 20 or SM 7B
« Reply #8 on: November 27, 2008, 09:36:00 am »

Ive been using the Heil PR40 on bass drum,bass amp,upright bass,trumpet and sax in combination with other condensers, It is a great mic. Looks like I might want to get both the RE20 and SM7b when I can afford it. I really want something else to try on the snare drum, the 57 is just too blah. I have an RE15 coming off E-Bay. That should be interesting.

Thanks.
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marcel

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Re: RE 20 or SM 7B
« Reply #9 on: November 27, 2008, 09:58:23 am »

I personally like the RE-20 better than the SM-7B for snare (I find the SM-7B gets thin and harsh), but I like the SM-7B better for just about everything else.

Like Michael, it's pretty much my default kick mic.
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hargerst

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Re: RE 20 or SM 7B
« Reply #10 on: November 27, 2008, 11:19:43 am »

C.Cash wrote on Thu, 27 November 2008 08:36

I really want something else to try on the snare drum, the 57 is just too blah.

For snare, try the Beyer M201 instead of the Shure SM57.
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Harvey "Is that the right note?" Gerst
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Galil

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Re: RE 20 or SM 7B
« Reply #11 on: November 27, 2008, 08:49:42 pm »

Concerning the RE-20, did you see the thread titled: EV RE20- wicked bump at 300-400 HZ ? ? A good amount of advice is in that thread.

Jim Williams mentioned that he really likes the RE-20 with transformerless low noise preamps like your Grace.  My RE-20 gets regularly used with PM1000 and Hamptone JFET pres.  I'd be intrigued to use it like Jim suggests, but have not yet had an opportunity. Mine are mostly used on Kick, Bass amps, Trombone, etc.  

Sometimes it (RE-20) really works well on vocals where you want a bit less detail than a condenser gives, like with an older vocalist.  I think you will also enjoy the RE-15.  The older dynamics made by AKG, Beyer (M-69, M-88), EV (RE and PL models) and Shure (why the SM57/58 became standard instead of the SM-53/54 must have been a price issue IMHO)before the explosion of cheap condensers include a wide variety of colors which are now routinely overlooked.

Galil
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seedyunderbelly.com

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Re: RE 20 or SM 7B
« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2008, 05:39:17 am »

C.Cash wrote on Thu, 27 November 2008 08:36

Ive been using the Heil PR40 on bass drum,bass amp,upright bass,trumpet and sax in combination with other condensers, It is a great mic. Looks like I might want to get both the RE20 and SM7b when I can afford it. I really want something else to try on the snare drum, the 57 is just too blah. I have an RE15 coming off E-Bay. That should be interesting.

Thanks.


Clifford,  You should check out Senn 409/609 and Beyer M88  Those are useful mics to have around.  

j

compasspnt

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Re: RE 20 or SM 7B
« Reply #13 on: December 01, 2008, 08:39:34 am »

CC, I can lend you both mics so you can see what you like.

Also the PR22 on snare is often mentioned.
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C.Cash

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Re: RE 20 or SM 7B
« Reply #14 on: December 01, 2008, 09:39:07 am »

compasspnt wrote on Mon, 01 December 2008 07:39

CC, I can lend you both mics so you can see what you like.

Also the PR22 on snare is often mentioned.



Thanks, much appreciated!

The guy from e-bay that I got the RE15 from sent the mic to the Bahamas post instead of my Fla address by mistake!!! I  will be surprised if I ever see. Sad
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compasspnt

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Re: RE 20 or SM 7B
« Reply #15 on: December 01, 2008, 10:25:18 am »

At best, get ready for that wonderful trip down to the main Post Office package place.
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wwittman

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Re: RE 20 or SM 7B
« Reply #16 on: December 01, 2008, 03:48:53 pm »

I have to say that I prefer the Re20 to the SM7 on almost anything, except bass drum, where the SM7 has a slight edge (literally) that i prefer.


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William Wittman
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Bill_Urick

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Re: RE 20 or SM 7B
« Reply #17 on: December 01, 2008, 07:00:48 pm »

wwittman wrote on Mon, 01 December 2008 15:48

I have to say that I prefer the Re20 to the SM7 on almost anything, except bass drum, where the SM7 has a slight edge (literally) that i prefer.



W, where do you like to position the SM7 in this application?
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wwittman

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Re: RE 20 or SM 7B
« Reply #18 on: December 02, 2008, 09:38:51 pm »

about half way inside the shell, coming in off center, but pointed at an angle at more or less the strike point



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William Wittman
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Bill_Urick

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Re: RE 20 or SM 7B
« Reply #19 on: December 02, 2008, 11:06:24 pm »

Thanks. Will try that next time.
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maarvold

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Re: RE 20 or SM 7B
« Reply #20 on: December 03, 2008, 01:08:32 pm »

wwittman wrote on Tue, 02 December 2008 18:38

about half way inside the shell, coming in off center, but pointed at an angle at more or less the strike point







This is my placement as well (as taught to me by my mentor, the guy who got me using SM7 on kick).  
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Michael Aarvold
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C.Cash

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Re: RE 20 or SM 7B
« Reply #21 on: December 04, 2008, 08:06:01 am »

wwittman wrote on Tue, 02 December 2008 20:38

about half way inside the shell, coming in off center, but pointed at an angle at more or less the strike point






Embarassed Is the mic halfway in or is the mic halfway inside the bass drum?
Sorry.

Thanks.
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wwittman

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Re: RE 20 or SM 7B
« Reply #22 on: December 04, 2008, 04:13:32 pm »

that's a non-existent semantic difference, as far as I can see.


'how far inside the shell is the mic?'

'it's about half-way in'

seems a totally reasonable response to me.

in fact, I might find "it's about halfway inside" potentially confusing, if I start to over think it.

'inside' almost implies the coma that isn't there, when one HEARS it, rather than reads it.

So if I said out loud that I was 'half way inside the room...' I think it might heard as 'I was half way, inside the room.' begging the question "inside the room, fine, but half way to WHERE, or what?"

I don't do anything by half measures.


Twisted Evil

But then I speak English English, primarily, with some inevitable American influences.
There are, no doubt, variations

but I still tend to think these two choices are interchangeable, at least in this context.
just like the SM7 and RE20




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William Wittman
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Bill_Urick

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Re: RE 20 or SM 7B
« Reply #23 on: December 04, 2008, 04:26:51 pm »

wwittman wrote on Thu, 04 December 2008 16:13

that's a non-existent semantic difference, as far as I can see.


'how far inside the shell is the mic?'

'it's about half-way in'

seems a totally reasonable response to me.

in fact, I might find "it's about halfway inside" potentially confusing, if I start to over think it.

'inside' almost implies the coma that isn't there, when one HEARS it, rather than reads it.

So if I said out loud that I was 'half way inside the room...' I think it might heard as 'I was half way, inside the room.' begging the question "inside the room, fine, but half way to WHERE, or what?"

I don't do anything by half measures.


Twisted Evil

But then I speak English English, primarily, with some inevitable American influences.
There are, no doubt, variations

but I still tend to think these two choices are interchangeable, at least in this context.
just like the SM7 and RE20







I think, I half-way, understand, at least, 50% of, that.
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hargerst

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Re: RE 20 or SM 7B
« Reply #24 on: December 04, 2008, 05:43:41 pm »

William,

Other than a basic disagreement as to the usefulness of the SM7 over a RE20, I agree completely!!!
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tom eaton

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Re: RE 20 or SM 7B
« Reply #25 on: December 05, 2008, 12:10:47 am »

WW-

I think he wanted a clarification regarding whether half the mic was in the drum or the entire mic was halfway between the two heads of the drum.  "Half way inside the shell" could be referring to the mic's position relative to the resonant head edge of the shell or the entire shell dimension, thus his confusion.

Beautiful work on Joan's version of Cathedrals, BTW.

tom

C.Cash

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Re: RE 20 or SM 7B
« Reply #26 on: December 05, 2008, 07:44:24 am »

tom eaton wrote on Thu, 04 December 2008 23:10

WW-

I think he wanted a clarification regarding whether half the mic was in the drum or the entire mic was halfway between the two heads of the drum.  "Half way inside the shell" could be referring to the mic's position relative to the resonant head edge of the shell or the entire shell dimension, thus his confusion.

Beautiful work on Joan's version of Cathedrals, BTW.

tom


Thanks Tom and sorry WW, sometimes my Bahamian gets in the way of my English.
 Thanks to Mr. Manning I now have an RE20 and a SM7 to audition. Hopefully on Sunday.

Thanks.
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compasspnt

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Re: RE 20 or SM 7B
« Reply #27 on: December 05, 2008, 09:00:35 am »

C.Cash wrote on Fri, 05 December 2008 07:44

Thanks to Mr. Manning I now have an RE20 and a SM7 to audition. Hopefully on Sunday.



What? You didn't do long, extensive mic tests after last night's rehearsals?
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C.Cash

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Re: RE 20 or SM 7B
« Reply #28 on: December 08, 2008, 11:32:35 am »

I did a quick test on Saturday with the 2 mics;

SM7 I found a little harsh and sharp.

RE20  Kind of the opposite of the SM7, I found that the higher frequencies  got lost unless I was really on the mic and loud.

I am sure there will be uses for bot and I will try them on some other things before I return them. I have a Rhodes track to do on Thursday. I will try those and a new/old RE15 I got off e-bay.
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Fig

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Re: RE 20 or SM 7B
« Reply #29 on: December 08, 2008, 01:35:18 pm »

Check the eq settings on the back of the SM-7 to shape the tone the way you require.

RE-20s are differ-oid, so yeah - they behave different than most mics.

Personally, I use an SM-7 way more than an RE-20 - guitar & bass cabs, vocals, occassionally a kick drum.

RE-20s are good for voiceover (as is an SM-7).

I'm interested in hearing the rest of your experience(s).

Fig
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ericswan

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Re: RE 20 or SM 7B
« Reply #30 on: December 16, 2008, 01:20:35 am »

I like both mics a lot.

I use a Sm 7 for vocals, toms, bass guitar and upright bass especially tracking live with other instruments.

I like a RE 20 on voice overs, kick, Leslies and it is the best baritone sax mic.
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C.Cash

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Re: RE 20 or SM 7B
« Reply #31 on: December 16, 2008, 03:44:09 pm »

My conclusions;

I ran tracks on both mics,

1. My voice talking.
  SM7- I could not seem to get a nice sound no matter what setting. I found it harsh and annoying.
   RE20-  Much smoother than the SM7 but I find it lacks presence. However I think it will do well on other vocals.

2. Snare.
   SM7- Again very annoying and harsh.
   RE20- I think it could be usable depending on the type of song but I prefer the SM57 (flame away).

3. Guitar cabinet
   SM7- No way!!! zero tone, harsh.
   RE20- Sorry, the acm900 has me spoiled, again this mic lacks presence. IMO.

Thanks.
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Fig

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Re: RE 20 or SM 7B
« Reply #32 on: December 16, 2008, 05:07:37 pm »

CC,

Have you adjusted the EQ on the SM-7.  Not on your channel strip or a plug-in but ON THE MIC BODY?

It could be in presence-peak mode?  Combined with the other switch's low-end rolloff can result in the sounds you describe for reasons I find to be obvious, but perhaps unclear to you?

Set them to flat.

If you are not getting good guitar cab tones from an SM-7 set to flat - its in the wrong location, there's something wrong with the SM-7 or the tone at the source ain't helpin', IMO.

If I am not being clear, there are two switches on the back of the mic - sometimes covered by a plate that "locks-out" the setting of choice.

If I'm not mistaken, there's a low-end adjustment switch on the RE-20, too.  Didja try that?

Use them on Kick... er, uh... bass drum and confirm the switch settings for my own curiousity, please.

Fig
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Derek DiFilippo

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Re: RE 20 or SM 7B
« Reply #33 on: December 17, 2008, 03:43:27 am »

Hey CC,

I have owned both the RE20 and the SM7B for a few years.  After a lot of A/B-ing, I've come to the conclusion that the Shure KSM32 3/4" diaphragm condenser is a better choice than either of these mics in almost all situations.  Insert caveats, IMOs, etc., etc.  

Kind of outside the norm and definitely not what I expected given the history and general reputation of the RE20 and the SM7B.  My clients and I agreed in all cases.  When I would swap out either of these mics and put in the KSM32, everyone was happier.  

I've used the KSM32 to close mic snares, I've used it in a kick drum, for tracking vocals, on guitar amps, on bass amps, and on sharply transient things like banjo and percussion, etc., etc., in a lot of different situations.  It's never sounded *unusable* and many times it's been the best of the options I've had (ie: better than the SM7B or RE20 or other condensers that were around).

The KSM32 has a very flat and even response without any intentionally added presence or emphasis in the >5k range.  Same general traits of quality LD dynamics.

If you're looking for a utility mic along the lines of a SM7B or RE20, see if you can check out a KSM32 and give it the same tests you have given the other mics (voice, snare, guitar).  If your ears are like mine you might find it to be a better investment for all-around duties.  As a bonus they are very solidly built and the stand mount that comes with it is very effective.

C.Cash wrote on Tue, 16 December 2008 12:44

My conclusions;

I ran tracks on both mics,

1. My voice talking.
  SM7- I could not seem to get a nice sound no matter what setting. I found it harsh and annoying.
   RE20-  Much smoother than the SM7 but I find it lacks presence. However I think it will do well on other vocals.

2. Snare.
   SM7- Again very annoying and harsh.
   RE20- I think it could be usable depending on the type of song but I prefer the SM57 (flame away).

3. Guitar cabinet
   SM7- No way!!! zero tone, harsh.
   RE20- Sorry, the acm900 has me spoiled, again this mic lacks presence. IMO.

Thanks.

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C.Cash

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Re: RE 20 or SM 7B
« Reply #34 on: December 17, 2008, 03:57:23 pm »

Fig wrote on Tue, 16 December 2008 16:07

CC,

Have you adjusted the EQ on the SM-7.  Not on your channel strip or a plug-in but ON THE MIC BODY?

It could be in presence-peak mode?  Combined with the other switch's low-end rolloff can result in the sounds you describe for reasons I find to be obvious, but perhaps unclear to you?

Set them to flat.

If you are not getting good guitar cab tones from an SM-7 set to flat - its in the wrong location, there's something wrong with the SM-7 or the tone at the source ain't helpin', IMO.

If I am not being clear, there are two switches on the back of the mic - sometimes covered by a plate that "locks-out" the setting of choice.

If I'm not mistaken, there's a low-end adjustment switch on the RE-20, too.  Didja try that?

Use them on Kick... er, uh... bass drum and confirm the switch settings for my own curiousity, please.

Fig


Hey Fig, I am hoping to track drums this weekend.I will try them both on the bass drum.
 As for the settings on the SM7, I'm quite sure that I tried them all and I did experiment with positioning on the cabinet (Ac30/Alnico Celestions). It was not horrible but I have gotten better sound with other mics like SM57/58, PR40.ACm 2 ribbon and my new favorite the ACM900 ribbon. Perhaps I am doing something wrong with the settings?
 How would you set the SM7 to mic a bass drum, settings and position? I will give it a try.

Thanks.
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Fig

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Re: RE 20 or SM 7B
« Reply #35 on: December 18, 2008, 01:55:49 pm »

C.Cash wrote on Wed, 17 December 2008 14:57


 How would you set the SM7 to mic a bass drum, settings and position? I will give it a try.




I would set the switches for no-roll-off, no-presence-peak in most cases.

Physical position would, of course, be where it sounds best <wink>.  What I mean is, I've found every drum is different as is the person playing it - too many variables for a "silver bullet answer" there.

Keep at it!

Fig
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Brian Kehew

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Re: RE 20 or SM 7B
« Reply #36 on: December 30, 2008, 05:29:21 am »

Over time, I got tired of the "hardness" in the SM7 sound. It is unique though.

RE-20 always sounds dull to me, which is great for dark and low things. It likes deep bass but is far from flat or transparent in the low regions.
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