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Author Topic: November 15  (Read 8751 times)

RSettee

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Re: November 15
« Reply #30 on: November 12, 2008, 06:39:02 pm »

With 911, my personal belief is that despite the theories that the structure was rigged, I don't believe so. That would have taken too much inside knowledge and planning, and I suspect that it would have been too difficult to keep quiet. They just readied the attack for as much force as they could muster, so whatever happened, happened. It's not like I think that they cared whether one person died or 100, or 1000.

If Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld and the Republicans that put them up to it DID do 911, I don't think that they knew exactly how much destruction that would happen, rather that they knew that it was destruction of some very gigantic magnitude. And who knows, maybe they hit the WTC, because they figured that it would withstand the hit, and just take out numerous upper floors, and then maybe got guilty at exactly how much damage that it ended up doing.

The attack on the Pentagon seems like "extra drama". It really does. It seems overly calculated, I mean, planes? These yahoos have access to various arms, and they think that a couple of planes will send a message? That's why I don't buy this whole thing. The attack on the Pentagon seems like extra drama, because it seems overwrought, like someone or something is going out of it's way to, you know, PROVE that they're real SERIOUS or something. If it were a terrorist faction, they'd find smarter and more effective ways of achieving a more larger scale attack (like say, being in the White House to keep your friends close, and your enemies closer). So I don't buy that a few terrorists took some pilot courses and then decided to hijack a few planes and then "send a message" to Western Civilization.

Bush and the Republicans cashed in on that fear. The fear about flying. The fear of that anyone Muslim could be a terrorist. The fear that Bin Laden and Hussein (Hussein in particular) were "radical tyrant dictators", were prime motivators.

It seems exactly like the modern day Pearl Harbour--that if the gov't didn't do it to their own citizens, that they knew it was going to happen and either looked the other way, or accelerated the process, like a crooked person who throws more gas on their own house fire to collect more insurance money. "Eh, it was all junk, anyways". With that theory, I speculate that Bush and the Repubs knew that the economy was going to shit because of outsourcing, inflation and rampant capitalist deregulated greed, so they decided to throw themselves a little welcoming party on the descent into hell, just like when a kid who can't build a sandcastle would rather knock his neighbours' sandcastle down.

That welcoming party was 911.

When the economy is in the tank, you have two options--try to save it, or run it into the ground and put the final nail in the coffin. With the economy, Bush and the Repubs damn well near put the final nail in the economy, if they didn't already do so. I don't think that they thought that the future of America was worth saving.....instead, they thought that soldiers dying was great for the future of America. And they neglected everyone else, aside from the big businesses that were supporting their campaigns that were helping to fudge elections and whatnot.

You can't buy control.... but you can certainly buy people off.
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MDM,

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Re: November 15
« Reply #31 on: November 12, 2008, 06:51:50 pm »

jon believes in whatever institutionalized information is available. Plenty of 'proof' on the official side of things.  Often wrong

Still think the Fed does not create inflation or money out of nothing jon? Still think they are there for the good of the people?

911 can be disproved by the simple fact that nothing falls effortlessly at freefall if it has something underneath blocking it's freefall.
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RSettee

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Re: November 15
« Reply #32 on: November 12, 2008, 06:54:23 pm »

MDM, wrote on Wed, 12 November 2008 17:51


911 can be disproved by the simple fact that nothing falls effortlessly at freefall if it has something underneath blocking it's freefall.


Such as checking with Satan himself to see if it's possible to dig below the Gates of Hell?
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Devin Knutson

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Re: November 15
« Reply #33 on: November 12, 2008, 07:27:39 pm »

MDM, wrote on Wed, 12 November 2008 15:51


911 can be disproved by the simple fact that nothing falls effortlessly at freefall if it has something underneath blocking it's freefall.


The ever deepening failure of our educational system continues to astound me.
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Jon Hodgson

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Re: November 15
« Reply #34 on: November 12, 2008, 07:41:32 pm »

MDM, wrote on Wed, 12 November 2008 23:51

jon believes in whatever institutionalized information is available. Plenty of 'proof' on the official side of things.  Often wrong


You're not very good at proving anything I say wrong Max, you just ignore what I say when it disproves your claims, then later repeat your claims as fact once more.
Quote:


Still think the Fed does not create inflation or money out of nothing jon? Still think they are there for the good of the people?


They certainly aren't there in some nefarious plan to cause inflation to supporess the little guy, as you believe.

There are many sensible discussions to be had regarding economic theories and policies, and disagreements about how best to achieve things, I personally think that economic models in which success can only come through growth and policies which work from this basis are unsustainable in the long run... I don't think they've got it right, but I don't see conspiracy in it.

I think a good rule of thumb is

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence."

Certainly most of your claims of how the various mechanisms work are provably false, your deductive reasoning can generally be charitably described as tenuous, so your conclusions can be treated accordingly. But to be honest it's fairly obvious that your conclusions are made before the proof is sought.
Quote:


911 can be disproved by the simple fact that nothing falls effortlessly at freefall if it has something underneath blocking it's freefall.


Max, I've dealt with the 9/11 stuff you spout countless times already, I really can't be bothered responding to your claims that have been repeatedly shown to be false.

For anyone else reading this who hasn't seen my little discussions with Max in tha past, it didn't fall with freefall acceleration, this is provable from both video (just look at all the things falling faster than the building) and seismic information. LOOSE CHANGE LIED.
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RSettee

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Re: November 15
« Reply #35 on: November 12, 2008, 08:06:58 pm »

Jon Hodgson wrote on Wed, 12 November 2008 18:41


For anyone else reading this who hasn't seen my little discussions with Max in tha past, it didn't fall with freefall acceleration, this is provable from both video (just look at all the things falling faster than the building) and seismic information. LOOSE CHANGE LIED.



I haven't seen Loose Change, but as I believe in some basic laws of common sense, common sense would dictate here that gravity and physics were the reason why the WTC imploded. Designers do their best to build things, but as we've seen with the Titanic and many other "indestructable" things, just because they're built well, doesn't mean that they don't have an achilles heel. Everything has a weakness, you just have to find it.

In this case, the sheer brunt of the force caused a huge structural rift, and that applied a domino effect. I know nothing of exact information of design tolerances, but I do know that you generally don't want to test gravity and physics to see how far something will go before it gives out. We've seen this in levies in floods--sure the whole levy as a general entity might be strong, but all it takes is one slight weak spot to give and then the whole thing eventually cedes to the pressure.

That's not being overly technical, it's just using good old common sense.
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mgod

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Re: November 15
« Reply #36 on: November 12, 2008, 08:41:23 pm »

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John Ivan

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Re: November 15
« Reply #37 on: November 12, 2008, 08:41:36 pm »

MDM, wrote on Wed, 12 November 2008 18:51

jon believes in whatever institutionalized information is available. Plenty of 'proof' on the official side of things.  Often wrong

Still think the Fed does not create inflation or money out of nothing jon? Still think they are there for the good of the people?

911 can be disproved by the simple fact that nothing falls effortlessly at freefall if it has something underneath blocking it's freefall.



You are clearly very confused about the rate at which the buildings in question fell.. This does not surprise me.

Please. There is NOTHING "simple" about something this size falling to the ground. You think there is one simple fact that disproves thousands of hours of collecting and examining data in an effort to explain every single 100th of a second of this event. You don't know who did the many analyses' involved in reaching the conclusions, but you assume, of course, that they somehow represent an "official" explanation of the events and this means the government "fooled around" with the results.

I guess there's nothing that can be said about your insistence that physics is all a bunch of BS..

Ivan...............
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mgod

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Re: November 15
« Reply #38 on: November 12, 2008, 08:49:47 pm »

I'm skeptical about the official 911 stories for a couple reasons, one of which I'm uncertain as to its truth.

1) Bin Ladens and Bushes in bidness together for decades. Jets as bombs in development since 1985 on the ground in Iran. Why did it take that long for someone to finally do it? Why when a Bush is in office? It stinks. And smells of big business in motion.

2) Apparently during the "attack" the whole northeast was exposed, all military jets being called up in an exercise under the command of your friend, Richard B. Cheney. True? Again, it stinks.

And the result, LOTS and LOTS of money for Cheney and BushCo allies. War profiteering on an unprecedented scale. Stinky stinky stinky.

Follow the money? The money says BushCo Int'l did it. Why not before? Clinton couldn't be relied on to act as required for the big money. And this is the biggest money ever.

DS

PS - anyone see Frontline last night about Lee Atwater?
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John Ivan

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Re: November 15
« Reply #39 on: November 12, 2008, 10:44:24 pm »

mgod wrote on Wed, 12 November 2008 20:49

I'm skeptical about the official 911 stories for a couple reasons, one of which I'm uncertain as to its truth.

1) Bin Ladens and Bushes in bidness together for decades. Jets as bombs in development since 1985 on the ground in Iran. Why did it take that long for someone to finally do it? Why when a Bush is in office? It stinks. And smells of big business in motion.

2) Apparently during the "attack" the whole northeast was exposed, all military jets being called up in an exercise under the command of your friend, Richard B. Cheney. True? Again, it stinks.

And the result, LOTS and LOTS of money for Cheney and BushCo allies. War profiteering on an unprecedented scale. Stinky stinky stinky.

Follow the money? The money says BushCo Int'l did it. Why not before? Clinton couldn't be relied on to act as required for the big money. And this is the biggest money ever.

DS

PS - anyone see Frontline last night about Lee Atwater?



I can have no further comment other than to say, I'm amazed. Absolutely amazing stuff I'm reading..

Ivan................
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MDM,

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Re: November 15
« Reply #40 on: November 13, 2008, 06:54:55 am »

John Ivan wrote on Wed, 12 November 2008 19:41

MDM, wrote on Wed, 12 November 2008 18:51

jon believes in whatever institutionalized information is available. Plenty of 'proof' on the official side of things.  Often wrong

Still think the Fed does not create inflation or money out of nothing jon? Still think they are there for the good of the people?

911 can be disproved by the simple fact that nothing falls effortlessly at freefall if it has something underneath blocking it's freefall.



You are clearly very confused about the rate at which the buildings in question fell.. This does not surprise me.

Please. There is NOTHING "simple" about something this size falling to the ground. You think there is one simple fact that disproves thousands of hours of collecting and examining data in an effort to explain every single 100th of a second of this event. You don't know who did the many analyses' involved in reaching the conclusions, but you assume, of course, that they somehow represent an "official" explanation of the events and this means the government "fooled around" with the results.

I guess there's nothing that can be said about your insistence that physics is all a bunch of BS..

Ivan...............



John, I've worked in construction and have witnessed some demolition. Nowhere near the size or SPEED of the 9/11 buildings.

combining the tensile strength of steel with cement, which resists compression you get a structure which is incredibly hard to demolish and takes ENORMOUS amounts of ENERGY to reduce to powder.

if you don't understand this take a jackhammer to cement, or look at one of the many buildings which seem to stand-up against the laws of phisics, such as the Pirelli building (which is coincidentally an enormous sail and yet withstands high winds), the CN tower, as well as the twin towers when they were standing.

the central coloumn, which in most buildings stores the elevators and is usually the main central load bearing structure was made of huge high-temperature steel encapsulated in cement.

the office space was basically empty space with horizontal supports which were only designed to hold the weight of each individual floor, therefore they were flimsy compared to the central coloumn.

the outside of the building was a steel grid which would have yet another weight and strength and therefore would require more energy to demolish than the office floors but less energy than the central coloumn.

so if the building were to have fallen from the weight of WHATEVER was on top, it would most certainly NOT have fallen floor-by-floor, symmetrically, at a constant speed at or close to the speed of freefall..

you would have seen the office floors collapse under the weight, leaving the central coloumn intact, or at least in huge chunks, and the outside grid falling in pieces but still resisting because most of the debris from the top floors would have 'funneled' through the flimsy 'office space' area.

I hope I have been sufficiently clear.

I hate this as much, if not more than you do, but unfortunately that is how I see it from a technical point of view..

try and do the same thing with a model.. there is no way.
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I must study politics and war that my sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy .. in order to give their children a right to study painting, poetry and music.
John Adams (1735-1826) 2nd President, United States

mgod

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Re: November 15
« Reply #41 on: November 13, 2008, 09:26:54 am »

John Ivan wrote on Wed, 12 November 2008 19:44

I can have no further comment other than to say, I'm amazed. Absolutely amazing stuff I'm reading.

Why? Because I'm suggesting that making money may have been a part of all this?

DS
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John Ivan

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Re: November 15
« Reply #42 on: November 13, 2008, 02:43:10 pm »

test one at the entry chime. Combat the fortune as it runs through olive mans edging for the sake of time. Combine the moral force of all who clinch the big one.

This is my advise to you all.. Go in peace..

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ssltech

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Re: November 15
« Reply #43 on: November 13, 2008, 03:24:18 pm »

Here's how.

Watch it.

I'll take engineering and informed study over wild speculative lunacy any day.

Keith
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MDM (maxdimario) wrote on Fri, 16 November 2007 21:36

I have the feeling that I have more experience in my little finger than you do in your whole body about audio electronics..

cerberus

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Re: November 15
« Reply #44 on: November 13, 2008, 10:46:38 pm »

oh,  the "grassy knoll" area of the saloon?

why don't we have new songs
about our "homeland"? it's
all "my country" this,
and "america" that.

'coz it seems harder to
rhyme with than
"orange"?

jeff dinces
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