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Author Topic: IMP20 Discussion  (Read 10893 times)

j.hall

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IMP20 Discussion
« on: October 27, 2008, 09:48:47 am »

doesn't look good for me submitting again this time.  haven't even opened the RAR and it's submission day.


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j.hall

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Re: IMP20 Discussion
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2008, 05:07:19 pm »

yeah, no chance for me.  just finished my first mix of the day and i HAVE to do a second or i'll fall even further behind then i already am.

note to self, two full lengths at the same time.....bad idea.
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slash5969

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Re: IMP20 Discussion
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2008, 05:42:17 pm »

I thought these were very well done tracks for the most part.

Faders up, and the basics were already there. I didn't obsess over the piano track - I sort of dug the tension it created right from the get-go. The Rhodes stuff felt a little over-the-top and I used it sparingly.

The drums fell together easily, and that's saying something for me. I ALWAYS struggle with drums. I'm using new KRK monitors this time around and I know that helped, but the quality of the tracks themselves was the biggest difference.

I spent time on subtle things in my mix this time, since I didn't use the entire week trying to get the drums to play nice with all the other tracks. I've got more than one reverb in play, for instance. I moved volumes around in small degrees almost everywhere. I got a chance to try to see the big picture for once - and even though I might have totally missed it, at least I got to look for it on this one.

That is progress. I'm diggin' it.

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iCombs

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Re: IMP20 Discussion
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2008, 06:10:14 pm »

I was going to actually say something along those lines as I was listening to my mix today...I didn't HAVE to do anything to this mix...which was awesome because it left me free to treat it how I felt it should be treated...I wasn't worrying about how to make stuff fit into the mix or dealing with tuning or sample replacement or any other sort of "fixing."  All I had to do was put the tracks in their spectral and dynamic places and then add all the other stuffs I wanted to add.

It was fun to just sit back and MIX...not worry about editing a whole lot...just MIX.  This was a wonderful IMP and I'll be excited to do my reivews.
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Ian Combs
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Billybehdaz

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Re: IMP20 Discussion
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2008, 06:31:00 pm »

got time to review a few, so here goes.  Keep in mind I'm listening on headphones as I don't have time to transfer all the mixes to my daw.

0dbfs - I like the intro.  Vocals were way too wet to me at first, but then it kind of grew on me.  Much different approach than I took.  I also like the idea of fading the piano in and out, just not the effect on it.  Doubled vox are nice.  Overall nice balances and creative choices, I didn't like it at first because I was so used to hearing my relatively dry version but again, it grew on me.

mkane - more straightforward, no edits yet.  Not really digging the delay on the vox, maybe it's just too loud.  Nice kick/bass.  Snare a little wet for this track, IMO, but great drum sound overall.  You stayed true to the original tracks, good mix.

YZ -  heavier in the low mids than others so far.  Bass is plucky.  Like the top end in the cymbals/hat.  Good edit at the end, gets to the point.  Solid mix, just maybe a little heavy in the low mids compared to "modern" mixes, whatever that means.

nelsonl - I'm not feeling the plucky bass sound, but others seem to have gone with that as well so maybe I'm stupid.  Vox a tad hot.  Could use a little more kick/less bass to get low end balanced, maybe more snare too.  Vox level sounds better second half, just need to fix kick/bass and it'll be there.

sstillwell - not sure about the bubbly effect, bass sounds kinda plucky like the previous mix.  Like the vox treatment, very tasteful and fits the song.  Snare could have more meat, maybe a little louder as well.  Nice mix overall, I liked it.

icombs - nice balances off the bat, kick sounds a little too "rock" for this tune.  Liked the dropping of the piano 2nd verse.  Nice pop on the snare.  Good mix.

ehouston - don't feel the slapback on the vox fits this tune.  Could use a little more bass guitar, then the kick would probably need to come up as well. Not bad.

electric warrior - kick too loud for this tune.  Vox sound sweet, bet you didn't do much.  Loud snare in chorus.  Cymbals a little overbearing.  Drums mixed more like a guitar rock tune which I didn't think this song called for.

Thats all I have time for now, will try to get to more later.  Overall these are the best mixes I've heard on any IMP I've participated in.  One thing that really bugged me that no one else fixed, the lyric "no regrets".  It seemed to be obviously tuned wrong, but I guess it didn't bother anyone else.
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T. Mueller

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Re: IMP20 Discussion
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2008, 06:51:29 pm »

I thought I'd get this done early this week.  Before I start:  did anyone tame the high frequency ringing on the piano intro?  And this is my first IMP, so take all of this with a grain of salt, and correct me where I'm being an idiot.

Grant: I loved the guitars in the second verse; total Police sound.  I don't know if that was Jonathan's idea or yours.

0dbfs (Jonathan): Loved the bass tone. Interested in what you did.  Didn't love the doubled vocals.  Liked how you kept the reverb effect down in the closing;  I think I would have preferred more variation on this effect earlier, but liked that it lessened at this point.  Brought it back to the vocals.

Mkane: Same on bass tone.  Loved the bass tone.  Felt like the cool organ swells were drowned out early on.  Felt like the ride almost had too much attack, but what do I know.  Nothing.  Absolutely nothing.  Awesome delay on the second chorus; tried to do the same thing, but didn't succeed.

YZ: Raw kick tone.  My first thoughts were that the total mix sounded a little mid-heavy.  Probably nothing mastering couldn't adjust.  Sounded like vocals were doubled with like a bit decoder on them in the first chorus; not a choice I would have made.  I woulda saved it for the more digital sound you got in the outro.  But a choice nonetheless.  Sweet.

NelsonL: Stuck with a raw bass sound.  Reminded me of early 80s rock.  In a good way.  If that's possible.  Vocals seemed a touch too loud for me.  Liked the taming of the high-hat.  Chorus needed more snare, I thought.

Ian: Loved the piano sound in the intro.  Liked the effects and timing tricks on the swells.  I'm jealous of the kick/bass EQing tricks.  Dunno 'em.  

EHouston: seemed to keep it pretty true to the original recording, which I liked.  Reverb/delay on vocal was a little distracting on the transients, and seemed to bury the vocal a bit.  

Billybehdazz: Liked the frequency switch after the intro.  Interesting choice to chorus the acoustic guitar early.  The swelling guitars seemed to pretty much come into vocal territory, but sounded wicked.  

Electric Warrior: piano intro seemed quiet.  Bass didn't seem to have much punch.  Intentionally?  Umkay.

Slash5969: I liked the piano build.  Wondering what some panning would have done as the drums come in at the intro...  Bass seemed solid, but a little interfering with the mids.

MGAudio: Didn't really feel the bass tone with the kick for some reason.  Vocal seemed to interfere a bit with the piano.  Sweet kick, though.  Seemed mid-heavy.  Again, an ME could deal with that.  Whoa.  THAT reverb.  Just heard it.  Awesome.

DCombs: Tight drums.  Enjoyed the vocal EQing, think it could have been a TOUCH louder.

T. Mueller: (My own.) I wouldn't make the vocal so thin if doing it again, and would space out the guitars/keys more.  Also, I kinda hyperlimited the thing.  My bad.

I guess I was a little surprised that some of us made similar choices with delays on the guitars, etc.
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SingSing

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Re: IMP20 Discussion
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2008, 09:51:35 pm »

Fiasco, you messed up the samplerate...


FYI

Stefan
SingSing
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Colin Larson

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Re: IMP20 Discussion
« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2008, 11:46:56 pm »

0dbfs: really creative with all the reverb stuff, definitely gives the song a different mood

mkane: the kick sounds good, but I don't know if it's right for the song...  maybe a little heavy handed for a piano tune?  Everything else sounds really good and makes me jealous Very Happy

YZ: haha the edit in the middle is cool.  snare sounds like it could use some more thwomp though.  Not sure about the outro vox effect.

NelsonL:  Like the others said, Vox and bass are too loud at first..  though the levels seem to come closer to normal as the song goes on.

sstillwell: cool beginning.. when the drums come in the hat sounds a little hollow(?) to me.. but the the delay/verb work is pretty cool.  Vox sound really nice.  Acoustic at the end sounds kinda goofy? so much different from the orig track.. how'd you get it so clean? Very Happy

iCombs: I really like the snare.. it really pops with the short verb tail. turn up the vocal a little bit?  this mix sounds really good.

EHouston: The vocal seems too hot and the fx ain't doin it for me.  The drums and bass sound like you didn't mess with them much at all.

Billybehdaz:  Whoa, the beginning rocks.  Sounds like you spent some time on this one.  After the full range drums come in, the kick sounds a little overbearing, maybe lower it a couple dB and bring up the bass a little?  The little chorus effects between vocals are really cool.

Electric Warrior:  Piano sounds like it has a packing blanket over it.  Could use some more time marrying up the kick and bass.  Everything seems way dry... reverb can be your friend!  Vocals seemed EQ'd well.

Slash5969: Oh snap son, rockin the fade-in!  Bass seems a little hot compared to the rest of the tracks.  Overall a good mix though, maybe pretty it up a little more with some light fx?

MGAudio:  Really like the balances.  Snare sounds weird to me for some reason but I can't pin it down.  err.. the delay on the outro is a little much.

DCombs:  Vocal treatment sounds really nice.. drums are super snappy with that bass... can't decide if I like it with the quiet piano though.  Maybe take out some 800-1k on the bass?  

Colin L (mine):  After listening to all these other ones I think I smashed the hell out of the track.  Uppermids sound crowded and I never really got the bass snappy enough.  Probably too much in the low mids too Very Happy  Oh well..  I think I did well with depth and space for the first time though.

T Mueller: OMG LAZERS... no wait it's just a piano intro.  Holy rocksauce batman!  Man your tonal balance sounds kinda off but the rockin drum sounds make up for it in awesome-factor.  The pause before the 1st verse totally makes it.

JCMastering:  Balances are alright but it has the whole packing blanket over the speakers thing going on.  Most of the tracks sound like the originals... spice it up a little!  Go balls out!

Adam Miller:  Vocal is very up front and sounds good, maybe just a little too hot.  Everything sounds very natural and well balanced.  Nice mix.

I'll get to page 2 later on... good mixes everyone Very Happy
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NelsonL

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Re: IMP20 Discussion
« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2008, 03:23:10 am »

So, a lot of initial chatter about the tracks-- I think it might defeat some of the learning value of this, especially if you're new and you go into your mix with preconceptions.

One thing that I don't think was mentioned though, is that the snare leans in the overheads. I'm sort of curious how they were placed for this reason. Technically this is something to be avoided, but I do think the drums sound good overall and are obviously well played.


0dbfs

Vox are too thin, too much effect. Nice sense of space on the guitars. Not feeling the stereo delay on the drums. Kick is too papery, kick and snare disconnected from the OHs, particularly in the verse.

Mkane

Kick and snare sounds not really working for me, seems like there's a snare sample triggering strangely (unevenly), most evident at the end of the chorus, plus it's been EQ'd kind of weird and peaky. I think you worked hard to get them both to cut, but you can do a bit less in the future. Pretty nice other than that.

YZ

Piano seems a bit wooly, the vocal effect at the end doesn't work for me, neither does the rhodes only break. I do like the vocal effect at the top, and while the drums are a bit dark, they tie together overall.

SStillwell

R2D2! I can't hang with the chorus on the gtrs. Rhodes treatment is cool but distracts form the vocal. Drums are kind of tamed/thin sounding.

iCombs

Vocal is too far back. I could use a tad more kick, but the drums sound good overall. Nice mix.

EHouston

The snare is disconnected from the kit, needs way more OH on the whole.

Electric Warrior

Dry up front vocal is kind of cool, but perhaps not appropriate for the tune. Bass is down too far. I like the way you brought out the ride in that section (I don't really think it's a chorus per se), but the drums are really bland/low impact in the verse.

Slash5969

Bass gtr is boomy, seems like you may have monitoring issues-- but I'm away from the studio and just have headphones.

MGAudio

I think the piano would sit better in your mix if you'd thin it out a bit. Snare is a bit too bandwidth limited sounding for my taste. Acoustic delay is distracting for me, even after you tuck it away with the introduction of the vocal. Sorry, this is too much crit, it's not a bad mix at all.

DCombs

Vox a touch dark? Drums have nice impact.

T Mueller

Piano placement doesn't work for me. Nice drum treatment. Mix seems to lean Left? Vox EQ is pretty artificial sounding.

JCMastering

Drums are dry and up front, kind of disconnected from everything else. Vox seem distant. Some nice work on the Rhodes here.

Adam Miller

Nice balanced mix, drums are maybe a little tame for my taste. What I mean is that the drums, for me, sort of work against the vibe of the song when they are this tidy sounding.

HissSound

Piano is disconnected from the mix, possibly in a tile shower stall somewhere. Drums are kind of bland, needs more OH in my opinion.

TheDan

Vox lack pressence and could be up more. Cool FX on the Rhodes.

Firefly

Vox could come down a tad. Drums are a little cloudy, except for the snare, OHs seem under utilized. Nice Rhodes fx in the break.

J-Texas

Vox are too far back. Bottom end of the bass gtr is stepping on the mix. Snare is too separate from the overall drum treatment and leans left.

grant richard

Nice overall drum treatment, very punchy but maybe a little hard sounding. Kick and snare poke out of the mix a hair at times. Vocal FX take away from the focus of the tune in my opinion. I could use more vocal on the whole.

Fiasco

SR issue too distracting too comment, except to say perhaps that the tempo drags!

osumosan

Bass gtr and kick interaction isn't working for me, seems like it's pumping off tempo or soemthing.

sing sing

Vox seem band width limited, drum treatment isn't really cohesive for me. Vocal delay if out of time. Really interesting "fizzy" gtr treatment.

Colin Larson

Lots of cool FX, maybe a bit too much with the phase shifter on the piano. Vox are too dark/back. What did you do to your 2-buss? Overall mix sounds pretty cloudy.

Jonah A. Kort

Piano delay gets a bit distracting there. Sorry, I'm out of gas Jonah.

Tricklecharge

Cool intro. Then self sabotage with SR, seems like you have some cool ideas but it's impossible to judge after hearing so many at the correct rate.

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fiasco ( P.M.DuMont )

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Re: IMP20 Discussion
« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2008, 06:51:57 am »

SingSing wrote on Mon, 27 October 2008 21:51

Fiasco, you messed up the samplerate...


FYI

Stefan
SingSing


Damn it! Thanks for the heads up.

Haste makes waste.

Perhaps j will let me resubmit.
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Philip

j.hall

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Re: IMP20 Discussion
« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2008, 10:52:03 am »

swap out the file with the fixed sample rate and identical name and it will fix itself.
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Adam Miller

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Re: IMP20 Discussion
« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2008, 11:44:22 am »

I haven't got time to do proper reviews of all the tracks just yet, but I will...

But with regards to the original tracks-
WHAT was going on with the autotune on this? It's quite brutal. It's one thing to track parts that may have problems, another to introduce the problems as part of the postproduction process. What's even more puzzling is that most people seem to have completely missed the words that were tuned a semitone out! I notice you've ironed out the autotune weirdness from yours though Grant, nice. The printed compression was also a bit ott on the vocal too, it kind of creates a wierd tilt between the louder words and the ones that should be quieter and breathier.

Adam
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Jonah A. Kort

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Re: IMP20 Discussion
« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2008, 12:55:18 pm »

The vocals didn't bother me at all.  I also don't own Autotune so

yeah.  I'll let some shitty singer buy it for me...or something.
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T. Mueller

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Re: IMP20 Discussion
« Reply #13 on: October 28, 2008, 01:29:19 pm »

Adam Miller wrote on Tue, 28 October 2008 10:44

I haven't got time to do proper reviews of all the tracks just yet, but I will...

But with regards to the original tracks-
WHAT was going on with the autotune on this? It's quite brutal. It's one thing to track parts that may have problems, another to introduce the problems as part of the postproduction process. What's even more puzzling is that most people seem to have completely missed the words that were tuned a semitone out!
Adam


Yeah.  I don't have Melodyne installed, so I wasn't gonna take the time to fix it.  There are several things in my mix like that.  There's a clip right when my drums start up that I didn't want to hash out, either, resulting from my editing the original.  I think that I noticed, too, that the correction was more or less "brutal" depending on how I EQed it.  Seemed like the more high-frequency content (like in my "thin" vocal mix), the more you could hear the correction; something I didn't know prior to this mix.  Is this true?  And if so, is it a result of the way the correction algorithm works?  Can anyone explain this?
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fiasco ( P.M.DuMont )

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Re: IMP20 Discussion
« Reply #14 on: October 28, 2008, 01:37:05 pm »

Hey guys sorry for the sample rate tom foolery.

On the IMP upload page the proper submission is the one towards the middle of the page.

Here is the link:http://www.prosoundweb.com/imp/files/IMP_20_Fiasco.mp3

j, I uploaded the proper version, and now there are two submissions by me. Sorry, I couldn't figure out how to swap them. Embarassed

I hope some of you can give me a second try. My reviews will be coming.


P.S. I kinda like my down sampled version. Smile
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Philip
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