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[rphilbeck]

Barry Hufker wrote on Thu, 23 October 2008 18:01

And he wants to raise it from 36 percent to 39 percent

Do you find it at all disturbing that anyone would have to pay almost HALF of their income away in taxes?  That turns $250,000 into $152,000.  WOW!

[rphilbeck]

Barry Hufker wrote on Fri, 24 October 2008 21:51

Socialized Capitalism (what we have in the U.S.) works very well.  In general, it is based on the worst in human nature - greed, selfishness, cynicism, materialism.  By socializing it a bit, capitalism is palatable to those who don't have the financial, social, economic, political advantages to succeed.  The poor may never rise to the top but as long as they aren't dying in outrageous numbers and aren't homeless in outrageous numbers (in other words most people can at least get by), then things are "fine".   Of course with the bailout, the rich (who always think of themselves as the entitled - because they are powerful)got what they wanted as well - greed with very little risk.  This is when Socialism bailed out Capitalism.  If it were true Capitalism, everyone at risk should have been allowed to be wiped out.  Think of it in the same way a forest fire cleanses the wilderness.  But that didn't happen and so things will continue to be shitty. Of course, because of Socialism, those who would have privitized their Social Security and would have nothing left for retirement can be thankful there is still Social Security.

There has to be a balance.  However, you can only lean in one direction so much before you've either shut out any chance for success outside the upper echelon, or taken away all incentive to bother with work.

[Berolzheimer]

RPhilbeck wrote on Fri, 24 October 2008 18:35

Larrchild wrote on Thu, 23 October 2008 11:57 I always enjoy the attempts of those to compare a known and proven failure with a potential unknown one. Ginning it up to scare you is free. No extra charge. Socialist! Are you suggesting socialism is not a known and proven failure?  Cmon, capitalism needs some work, but it's the best system devised so far.

Obama's policies don't go anywhere near Soviet style "socialism", which was really more a form of totalitarianism, they just lean just a little bit towards social Democracy. The most successful societies right now are the social Democracies- Sweden, Germany, France, Canada, etc.  In those countries the quality of life is higher, medical expenses are lower and the standard of care is higher, many more people get higher education,  there's less pollution, crime is lower, etc . etc .
Do you really have a problem with that?

[Larrchild]

The Clinton era is a good example. Less people of all colors sleeping in their cars, and general happiness, with the exception of on the AM dial. Business did fine. Best ROI of the Stock Market during that period. Real Bolsheviks, eh?

[Barry Hufker]

Going from 36 percent to 39 percent is not paying almost half your wages in taxes.  Let's not get dramatic.

[mgod]

Why no drama? Without it the right gets no traction. The post that began this is ALL about drama.

DS

[Barry Hufker]

You're right (no pun intended) of course.

[YZ]

RPhilbeck wrote on Fri, 24 October 2008 23:55

Barry Hufker wrote on Thu, 23 October 2008 18:01   And he wants to raise it from 36 percent to 39 percent Do you find it at all disturbing that anyone would have to pay almost HALF of their income away in taxes?  That turns $250,000 into $152,000.  WOW!

Compare that to the rest of the world:

http://www.worldwide-tax.com/

countries in bold red are 'clickable', leading to a page with more details.

[Larrchild]

Wassup, 2008:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qq8Uc5BFogE

[Barry Hufker]

Great!

[Berolzheimer]

Wow, that's brilliant.

[seedyunderbelly.com]

I thought after reading the title that this would be about how after the gold standard being was tossed,  America sold it's people(future production?) to the banks..   Anyone know more about this  my cobwebs  are intact.

[rphilbeck]

Berolzheimer wrote on Fri, 24 October 2008 23:25

RPhilbeck wrote on Fri, 24 October 2008 18:35 Larrchild wrote on Thu, 23 October 2008 11:57 I always enjoy the attempts of those to compare a known and proven failure with a potential unknown one. Ginning it up to scare you is free. No extra charge. Socialist! Are you suggesting socialism is not a known and proven failure?  Cmon, capitalism needs some work, but it's the best system devised so far.   Obama's policies don't go anywhere near Soviet style "socialism", which was really more a form of totalitarianism, they just lean just a little bit towards social Democracy. The most successful societies right now are the social Democracies- Sweden, Germany, France, Canada, etc.  In those countries the quality of life is higher, medical expenses are lower and the standard of care is higher, many more people get higher education,  there's less pollution, crime is lower, etc . etc . Do you really have a problem with that?

You wouldn't know that because there is not enough information about his master plan for you to make such assumptions.  Furthermore, the USSR was Communist, and not Socialist.  Also, check your facts on quality of life: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quality-of-Life_Index

[jimlongo]

oooh he's got a secret master plan!   You're too funny.

[mgod]

You know, its time we moved on to the fact that this socialist or communist accusation against Obama is the most desperate and stupid tactic that everyone using it has made yet. I mean, tell use not to vote for him because he's black and that's at least 50% true. Bu this thing is just dumb. Saying it is dumb, using it is dumb, and the people doing that are just dumb. As in not intelligent, lacking perception, education and awareness and conscience. Stupid. Anyone believing and making that argument seriously is just dumb. Or is arrogant enough to think the rest of us are.

So the black thing hasn't worked. The terrorist thing hasn't worked. The Arab thing hasn't worked (not even McCain could stomach that). This doesn't work. You can watch McCain and know he doesn't believe it either. He may have screwed up in misunderstimating the legendary "American People", but he's not dumb.

Next in the arsenal of dumbness please.

DS