Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[ATOR]

We've been running the WUMP for 15 episodes now and that's a good occasion to evaluate how things are rolling.

So what are your thoughts on:
- what's the best part of the WUMP
- number of participants
- time between WUMPs
- tech notes, do they work for you, are they useful?
- Any ideas on how to improve the WUMP?



If you have a track we could use you can send an mp3 of the mix to wump(at)atormastering(dot)com. If we all have one mix to use we'll be good for years.


Cheers,
Pieter

[JCMastering]

I've only participated once , but for me the best part was been able to compare my master to others and seen how they approach theirs. We rarely get a chance to do so in real world situations.

As for improvement , I think it would be a more complete experience if we have two songs to work as part of an album. One song alone feels as if working without context. One could approach it as working on a single , but today , when albums are been put together with each song produced and mixed by different people , providing coherence is relevant as always.

[Mickey Tee]

ATOR wrote on Wed, 22 October 2008 13:00

We've been running the WUMP for 15 episodes now and that's a good occasion to evaluate how things are rolling. So what are your thoughts on: - what's the best part of the WUMP - number of participants - time between WUMPs - tech notes, do they work for you, are they useful? - Any ideas on how to improve the WUMP? If you have a track we could use you can send an mp3 of the mix to wump(at)atormastering(dot)com. If we all have one mix to use we'll be good for years. Cheers, Pieter

WUMP is such a great way to learn what you're getting wrong, and what others are doing. For me, it was a fantastic learning experience.

- what's the best part of the WUMP
The comparisons between different masters

- number of participants
Upper limit is about 15 I think, it's not a problem tbh until it comes to reviewing lol

- time between WUMPs
I'd be up for one now, but probably one every three months?

- tech notes, do they work for you, are they useful?
Really helpful to see what people have or haven't done

- Any ideas on how to improve the WUMP?
Use a sendspace link instead of using the FTP! Plus release it to other forum people, their feedback would be just as useful.

Actually, now I come to think of it, I never said thanks to you ATOR for running it... so... thanks

[ATOR]

Mickey Tee wrote on Wed, 22 October 2008 21:50

Actually, now I come to think of it, I never said thanks to you ATOR for running it... so... thanks

Any time  

[Slip]

If at all possible, the old way of having WUMP where people who did not have time to participate, could still download all the files, would be preferable to the "closed session" as the last one was.

Isn't it all about learning? Why then have the elitist attitude of discarding all other members that couldn't either make it in time to sign up for the WUMP or simply didn't have time to participate? I find it puzzling. Now only 11 people (it was 11 last time right?) learned anything and got anything relevant from 3 different threads. Everybody else got nothing. Zero. This bummed me out quite a bit.

Please, make sure the song to be worked on has the rights to be published for everybody to listen to and practice their skills on. This makes much more sense in a forum environment.

Cheers!
Niklas

[NoWo]

Although my tracks have been a little controversary in the past I have to admit I learned a lot through it. Not in the way that I looked a lot into the techniques of others but in a more general way...working under pressure and still trying to act cool. That was the best part for me.

I found the last Wump to be the best so far, the Calbi version helped to get rid of unuseful discussions. So thanks for this Ator -:)

If further upcoming Wumps would have other official released versions with which we can compare I would be in anytime.

I can not follow Slip to open the server for everyone although the interest might be great. The whole idea isn´t adressed to the world, it is a debate between nice gentlemen, at least I hope so-:)

NoWo

[Slip]

I cannot understand your logic. Look at the last WUMP, the spots were filled nearly immediately. I would have LOVED to join but I simply was not online at the time.

How on earth is "opening the servers" in any way inviting the whole world? You thinking a bit much about the amount of activity on these forums?

What about making a "WUMP participants login" and a "spectators/guest" login where you have to use your forum name as a some kind of validation. If it's control you want, then sure.. that's the way to do it but limiting the amount of people who get any use from the WUMP is just elitist behavior in my opinion.  

- Niklas

[ggidluck]

- what's the best part of the WUMP
It makes you critique yourself. Opinions can vary based upon people's hearing and listening environments. The majority of people participating are going hit somewhere in the middle of what is considered a good master. For me it helped identify deficiencies in my playback system.

- number of participants
I have taken part in two. The first one had 20 entries and that was too many to listen to. I agree that 15 should be an upper limit.

- time between WUMPs
Once every three months sounds about right. It takes time to do these right and then a short break between WUMP's is good too.

- tech notes, do they work for you, are they useful?
Yes, I think the tech notes have value for anyone reading this. It is useful to know what was done and settings.

- Any ideas on how to improve the WUMP?
None to make at this time.

It's been great to participate and thanks to ATOR and all that have contributed their time and talent into this.

[ATOR]

Niklas

If at all possible, the old way of having WUMP where people who did not have time to participate, could still download all the files, would be preferable to the "closed session" as the last one was. Isn't it all about learning? Why then have the elitist attitude of discarding all other members that couldn't either make it in time to sign up for the WUMP or simply didn't have time to participate? I find it puzzling. Now only 11 people (it was 11 last time right?) learned anything and got anything relevant from 3 different threads. Everybody else got nothing. Zero. This bummed me out quite a bit. Please, make sure the song to be worked on has the rights to be published for everybody to listen to and practice their skills on. This makes much more sense in a forum environment. Cheers! Niklas

Doing a WUMP for yourself takes just as much time as participating in one but you won't have the payoff that joining a WUMP will get you. And having your master and your listening notes scrutinized by fellow mastering engineers does pay off.

So if your time is precious, you should spend it well and participate


The spots did fill up real quick in the last WUMP and I do feel that everyone who wants to participate should be able to do so.

What we could do is set WUMP dates way ahead so no-one will have to miss them. We could let everyone participate who signs up and if the group gets bigger than 15 we'll split it up to keep the commenting part manageable.

If we would have one every three months the dates could be:
-December
-March
-June
-September

With in those months:
1  - download mix
10 - upload master
11 - reviews, tech notes and discussion


This way I think no-one that wants to participate should have an excuse not to.


What do you think?

[bblackwood]

ATOR wrote on Sat, 25 October 2008 09:27

With in those months: 1  - download mix 10 - upload master

Plan looks great, but had to quote the use of binary for numeration - nicely done! hehe

[ATOR]

bblackwood wrote on Sat, 25 October 2008 16:52

ATOR wrote on Sat, 25 October 2008 09:27 With in those months: 1  - download mix 10 - upload master Plan looks great, but had to quote the use of binary for numeration - nicely done! hehe

Damn I didn't know I was that geeky. The digital age is taking it's toll  


(To be abundantly clear: the numbers refer to the days of the month)

[aivoryuk]

all sounds good.

the only thing that annoys me about WUMP is there are always the people that do it just to get a free evaluation of their master without posting comments on the other masters or even post techniques.

No one learns anythng from that

[gbacklin]

aivoryuk wrote on Sun, 26 October 2008 14:05

all sounds good. the only thing that annoys me about WUMP is there are always the people that do it just to get a free evaluation of their master without posting comments on the other masters or even post techniques. No one learns anythng from that

I hope this wasn't directed at me. I apologized for my not following through with the end.

In my first attempts at WUMP, my results were admittedly terrible. What good would my opinion be if my result sucked so badly and my techniques all the same. I am not at the level of the other participants, but feel I am getting better compared to my initial attempts.

This last one, I did get better but still had a problem I really haven't had time to look into due to the fact that I am desperately trying to stay solvent financially. My 401K is all but gone, I had a 30 year software development career go out the door last November because my company lost 30 billion dollars in subprime mortgage, and I came to that job because my previous job was outsourced to India. I am over 50 and find myself starting over from scratch, the only difference is that I have 2 kids in college and a third in private school. I am not complaining, I accept the challenge with renewed enthusiasm, and am excited that I am working in the audio video realm, albeit self employment, but none the less still moving forward.

I will repeat my apology that I was not able to follow up.

I appreciate and extremely grateful for the fact that this forum has allowed me to at least participate. I have worked with audio a long time, but mastering very short, and find myself in the massive learning curve, as heard by my results , but every new project is one more to work on.

I do promise that when the next one comes around, I will not sign up if I am not able to follow through will the whole cycle.

Thank you again for letting old guy learn !

Take Care,
Gene

[aivoryuk]

gbacklin wrote on Mon, 27 October 2008 00:23

aivoryuk wrote on Sun, 26 October 2008 14:05 all sounds good. the only thing that annoys me about WUMP is there are always the people that do it just to get a free evaluation of their master without posting comments on the other masters or even post techniques. No one learns anythng from that I hope this wasn't directed at me. I apologized for my not following through with the end. In my first attempts at WUMP, my results were admittedly terrible. What good would my opinion be if my result sucked so badly and my techniques all the same. I am not at the level of the other participants, but feel I am getting better compared to my initial attempts. This last one, I did get better but still had a problem I really haven't had time to look into due to the fact that I am desperately trying to stay solvent financially. My 401K is all but gone, I had a 30 year software development career go out the door last November because my company lost 30 billion dollars in subprime mortgage, and I came to that job because my previous job was outsourced to India. I am over 50 and find myself starting over from scratch, the only difference is that I have 2 kids in college and a third in private school. I am not complaining, I accept the challenge with renewed enthusiasm, and am excited that I am working in the audio video realm, albeit self employment, but none the less still moving forward. I will repeat my apology that I was not able to follow up. I appreciate and extremely grateful for the fact that this forum has allowed me to at least participate. I have worked with audio a long time, but mastering very short, and find myself in the massive learning curve, as heard by my results , but every new project is one more to work on. I do promise that when the next one comes around, I will not sign up if I am not able to follow through will the whole cycle. Thank you again for letting old guy learn ! Take Care, Gene

nope not directed at you Gene, I wasn't involved in the last wump and haven't involved myself in reading the techniques or discussions part.

It's a general thing that has been part of WUMP since it started.

[T. Mueller]

bblackwood wrote on Sat, 25 October 2008 09:52

ATOR wrote on Sat, 25 October 2008 09:27 With in those months: 1  - download mix 10 - upload master Plan looks great, but had to quote the use of binary for numeration - nicely done! hehe

I would have to say that it might be Brad who's the geek.  I knew what you meant, but the "1, 2, 3" made a lot of sense for we geeks, too. : )

[Slip]

ATOR wrote on Sat, 25 October 2008 17:27

Niklas If at all possible, the old way of having WUMP where people who did not have time to participate, could still download all the files, would be preferable to the "closed session" as the last one was. Isn't it all about learning? Why then have the elitist attitude of discarding all other members that couldn't either make it in time to sign up for the WUMP or simply didn't have time to participate? I find it puzzling. Now only 11 people (it was 11 last time right?) learned anything and got anything relevant from 3 different threads. Everybody else got nothing. Zero. This bummed me out quite a bit. Please, make sure the song to be worked on has the rights to be published for everybody to listen to and practice their skills on. This makes much more sense in a forum environment. Cheers! Niklas Doing a WUMP for yourself takes just as much time as participating in one but you won't have the payoff that joining a WUMP will get you. And having your master and your listening notes scrutinized by fellow mastering engineers does pay off.

It's not just about your own results. It's about being able to follow the discussions that happen after the WUMP. This is obviously impossible if we are not allowed to hear any results. Heck, not even the original track. I find the technique discussions very valuable, even when not participating in the WUMP itself.

Quote:

What we could do is set WUMP dates way ahead so no-one will have to miss them. We could let everyone participate who signs up and if the group gets bigger than 15 we'll split it up to keep the commenting part manageable. If we would have one every three months the dates could be: -December -March -June -September With in those months: 1  - download mix 10 - upload master 11 - reviews, tech notes and discussion This way I think no-one that wants to participate should have an excuse not to. What do you think?

I think this is a great idea!

Cheers!
Niklas

[Pete G]

I'm an avid lurker and gain a great deal from the forum - thankyou. But, I too would like to become involved in a WUMP. For those of us who miss the cut, or perhaps have some trepidation in playing with the big boys, could we consider several (or as many as needed to support groups of 11-15) conferences, say, with a designated moderator for each? That way, it doesnt get overwhelming, but more of us would have the opportunity to share in this great concept.

Pete G

[ATOR]

Pete G wrote on Wed, 29 October 2008 00:56

I'm an avid lurker and gain a great deal from the forum - thankyou. But, I too would like to become involved in a WUMP. For those of us who miss the cut, or perhaps have some trepidation in playing with the big boys, could we consider several (or as many as needed to support groups of 11-15) conferences, say, with a designated moderator for each? That way, it doesnt get overwhelming, but more of us would have the opportunity to share in this great concept. Pete G

First of all there is no need to dread participating. It's never been about who's the best and even the comments of a total newbie can be meaningful to a seasoned pro.

The 'several conferences', isn't that the same as what I proposed on the previous page:

Quote:

'We could let everyone participate who signs up and if the group gets bigger than 15 we'll split it up to keep the commenting part manageable.'

[KAyo]

Slip wrote on Thu, 23 October 2008 13:02

If at all possible, the old way of having WUMP where people who did not have time to participate, could still download all the files, would be preferable to the "closed session" as the last one was. Isn't it all about learning? Why then have the elitist attitude of discarding all other members that couldn't either make it in time to sign up for the WUMP or simply didn't have time to participate? I find it puzzling. Now only 11 people (it was 11 last time right?) learned anything and got anything relevant from 3 different threads. Everybody else got nothing. Zero. This bummed me out quite a bit. Please, make sure the song to be worked on has the rights to be published for everybody to listen to and practice their skills on. This makes much more sense in a forum environment. Cheers! Niklas

Ditto!
Good suggestions..

[Mickey Tee]

KAyo wrote on Thu, 30 October 2008 03:59

Slip wrote on Thu, 23 October 2008 13:02 If at all possible, the old way of having WUMP where people who did not have time to participate, could still download all the files, would be preferable to the "closed session" as the last one was. Isn't it all about learning? Why then have the elitist attitude of discarding all other members that couldn't either make it in time to sign up for the WUMP or simply didn't have time to participate? I find it puzzling. Now only 11 people (it was 11 last time right?) learned anything and got anything relevant from 3 different threads. Everybody else got nothing. Zero. This bummed me out quite a bit. Please, make sure the song to be worked on has the rights to be published for everybody to listen to and practice their skills on. This makes much more sense in a forum environment. Cheers! Niklas Ditto! Good suggestions..

This is all very well, but it depends on whether you can find someone who's basically willing to distribute their music on the internet for free. I wouldn't personally agree to allowing good quality versions of either my own or my outfit's music just to be given away to the general public.

Far better to make it compulsory that if you join in you have to "join in" properly as well tbh, though I guess this thread has proven that they're more popular than imagined? In which case a) let's organise another NOW! lol, and b) someone else organise another one for other people? There's no reason why we couldn't run two, we're capable adults after all!

Mickey.

[cass anawaty]

I was willing to listen and provide some feedback, but with the exclusivity I couldn't.

I've been a participant in the past, and really valued getting a track put through so many different environments.  It's a bell curve kinda' thing--when you see trends, you should take notice.  The more you limit the listening, the less you're able to do that with confidence.

.02

[ATOR]

For all eager WUMPers, the next one will start at Dec 1st.

I'll open a sign up thread two weeks in advance. There will be no limit to the number of participants.


I'm still looking for a mix. If you've got one that we could use you can mail an mp3 to: wump at atormastering dot com

Right now I'm working an a reggae album, I'll ask the artist if we could use one of his tracks.

[T. Mueller]

I might have one, ATOR.

[ATOR]

Hey T, whadaya got?

I have permission to use a great reggae track if we'd like to.

[MT Groove]

I'd love to work on a reggae track!!

[Slip]

Reggae would be awesome! I've never had any of that before (well, only pseudo reggae that was basically a hiphop back ground spliced thing).

Cheers!
Niklas

[T. Mueller]

I've got a singer-songwriter-y thing.  Kinda pop-folk, maybe?  Reggae would be challenging for me--in a good way.  But everything's challenging for me at this point. : )

[Ed Littman]

FYI,
I have my 13 song cd thats starting to be mixed. I'm very excited cause it's 2 years in the making & it's sounding killin'.
It has a variaty of instrumental styles so there's some good stuff to choose from. if not for the upcomeing wump then the future.
Ed

[KAyo]

Hey Ed!

That sounds very intersting.
Two years in the making.. a well brewed mix i presume..
This Wump should be interesting. When is the Wump up Ator?

Regards,
Kayo

[ATOR]

T could you send me an mp3 of your pop-folk song at wump at atormastering dot com? I'm trying to make as much variety in tracks as I can. After last episode I think the reggae track makes a good contrast, maybe we could use your track in a later wump. The more mixes we'll have to choose from the more variety.


Ed is it gonna a jazz-fusion album with you shreddin the fretboard? I love your playing. Will def keep a wump spot open for that. Let me know when you're done mixing.



... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...
Next WUMP starts Dec 1st. Signup opens two weeks in advance.
... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...

[Ed Littman]

Thank you for that HUGE compliment!
here's a cross section of the album.

These are rough mixes.....

http://edlittmanmastering.com/Jiggle.mp3
http://edlittmanmastering.com/we'll_try_again.mp3
http://edlittmanmastering.com/Dust.mp3

[ggidluck]

Good stuff Ed! That would be fun music to work on. Great dynamics and I love the bass and kick especially on the first two.

BTW, the Dust.mp3 file is repeating about 2/3 of the way through. (At least in my quicktime applet here.)

[cerberus]

ed; i'm very impressed with this art you are making.
it seems like your m.e. can look forward
to concentrating on error checking
and p.q. codes...

in a more perfect world, everything would be recorded
and mixed this well; and wouldn't need any
help from the likes of me.

great work, ed!

jeff dinces

[ATOR]

Great tracks Ed! Lots of different colors. Amazing rhythm section too, the groove in Jiggle is smokin'  

[KAyo]

So,. with all that said and heard. Any news on when the next WUMP's going to be ATOR?

Re'
Kayo

[ATOR]

Sure, to quote from the previous page:

ATOR wrote on Sat, 08 November 2008 14:21

... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Next WUMP starts Dec 1st. Signup opens two weeks in advance. ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...

[KAyo]

Now that I am within the advance date..
Sign me up -  


Thanks ATOR
Kayo

[gbacklin]

Ed Littman wrote on Sat, 08 November 2008 10:44

Thank you for that HUGE compliment! here's a cross section of the album. These are rough mixes..... http://edlittmanmastering.com/Jiggle.mp3 http://edlittmanmastering.com/we'll_try_again.mp3 http://edlittmanmastering.com/Dust.mp3

Good stuff going on here, thanks for posting !!!

[Ed Littman]

Hi Gents,
Thanks for listening all the great comments!
The record is being produced by Christian Cassan in Brooklyn, he's also mixing it & playing drums. It's recorded all on Protools HD with some good mics, room & outbord gear,& I have a special process that I use on some of the drum tracks to give it that 70's vibe such as the tune jiggle.

Before I had christian start producing this I just hired him as a drummer & had the whole album almost finished at another studio with all the analog gear I love recording to 2" tape(Ampex mm1200), but there were many problems with those tracks partly due to studio being ill equipped in the que setup, isolation for the upright & just not being a good vibe. The other problem is that I was producing this myself as if it was a jazz record & it just aint that. Anyway the list of problems are long & i trashed everything to start all over with Cassan.
This was a big lesson for me to learn, that the vibe & environment is paramount to the gear.

Anyway, the mixing starts now on some songs & after tracking Saw, some horns & vibes on a couple more tunes in the next few weeks we'll be done with everything.
Once again thanks for listening.
Ed

[T. Mueller]

ATOR wrote on Wed, 05 November 2008 15:37

Hey T, whadaya got? I have permission to use a great reggae track if we'd like to.

ATOR, I finally found the stereo wavs from the track(s) I was thinking about.  Just keep it in mind for a future WUMP, I suppose.

[UnderTow]

ATOR wrote on Wed, 22 October 2008 14:00

So what are your thoughts on: - what's the best part of the WUMP

Feedback and learning.

Quote:

- number of participants

It can get a bit hectic reviewing all the submissions when the number of participants gets large.

Quote:

- time between WUMPs

In a sense I would want many WUMPs but unfortunately work gets in the way. (That's why you haven't seen me around for a few months).

Quote:

- tech notes, do they work for you, are they useful?

Absolutely. Very useful.

Quote:

- Any ideas on how to improve the WUMP?

No.

Quote:

If you have a track we could use you can send an mp3 of the mix to wump(at)atormastering(dot)com. If we all have one mix to use we'll be good for years.

I'll mail you something Pieter.

Alistair