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[J.J. Blair]

zebra50 wrote on Sun, 20 June 2010 06:02

I keep reading this, and would point out that capsules in UM57, and the Microtech Gefell UM70 and M71 etc use solid wires.

Not the same thing.  We're talking about solid core, insulated wire, as opposed to stranded.  What Geffel uses is not even really what I'd consider "wire."

[Oliver Archut]

I keep reading this, and would point out that capsules in UM57, and the Microtech Gefell UM70 and M71 etc use solid wires.

They might be solid, but they are not really 'wire' They are minute hands as used in watches, and as far as I know they come from "Glasshuette" (Village in East German famous for fine watch manufacturing)

Also they are secured on both ends, so that there is really no room for moving (resonating).

Best regards,

[zebra50]

Quote:

Also they are secured on both ends so that there is relay no room for moving...

Yup, screwed at the centre and soldered at the bottom, and I can imagine the flat profile prevents lateral vibrations.

I'm sure the electrons can't tell if it's a watch hand or a wire, so long as it conducts.

J.J. Blair wrote on Sun, 20 June 2010 17:32

Not the same thing. We're talking about  solid core, insulated wire, as opposed to stranded.

Are we? The poster didn't say if they are insulated or not....

miics wrote on Fri, 18 June 2010 14:03

... and secondly; solid core termination wires.

[Klaus Heyne]

J.J. Blair wrote on Sat, 19 June 2010 14:08

I was going to say, of the many things I've learned from Klaus and David Bock, one is to not use solid core wires off the capsule.

I am not principally opposed to solid core wires as capsule lead outs. They just need to fiulfill two requirements for me:

1. They must be resonance-free

2. They must sound good

[miics]

Klaus Heyne wrote on Mon, 21 June 2010 12:57

J.J. Blair wrote on Sat, 19 June 2010 14:08 I was going to say, of the many things I've learned from Klaus and David Bock, one is to not use solid core wires off the capsule.   I am not principally opposed to solid core wires as capsule lead outs. They just need to fiulfill two requirements for me: 1. They must be resonance-free 2. They must sound good

Yes I agree and I am sure you are all well aware that I wouldn't be using these if they sounded bad as i am on a constant quest for the perfect sounding capsule.

cheers

[David Bock]

Quote:

I keep reading this, and would point out that capsules in UM57, and the Microtech Gefell UM70 and M71 etc use solid wires.

Exactly my point.

[David Bock]

Quote:

I'm sure the electrons can't tell if it's a watch hand or a wire, so long as it conducts.

It's an electro-acoustic transducer, so mechanical resonance in the electrical circuit exists, as opposed to a pure electronic device where the the electrons "don't care".

[J.J. Blair]

zebra50 wrote on Sun, 20 June 2010 10:21

I'm sure the electrons can't tell if it's a watch hand or a wire, so long as it conducts.

You're missing the point.  It has nothing to do with the electrons moving through it.  It has to do with vibrations and ultra high impedance parts of the circuit.  

A solid core insulated wire off the capsule is likely to have a resonance, where stranded wire, or the watch hand, as implemented by Gefell, is not.  

The point being that the resonance will affect the signal, and create an unwanted tone.  It's the same reason that Neumann put rubber insulaters under the 100M resistors, etc.  

[zebra50]

J.J. Blair wrote on Mon, 21 June 2010 21:30

You're missing the point...

I'm really not missing the point about the vibrations - I even mentioned lateral vibrations in my last post, the rectangular profile being more rigid in one direction than another. And yes, I had understood this to be an electro-acoustic effect as well as a purely mechanical transfer of vibrations to the capsule.

Possibly you missed my point also. Possibly I was not expressing myself in the best way.

What I was trying to imply with my first post is that there is more than one way to do this, and it's not as simple as solid vs. stranded, or insulated vs insulated. Hence my reference to the Neumann-Gefell capsules.

I wanted to say that because I didn't feel it was fair to judge against the new capsule design on this basis before anyone had heard it. Design, thickness, material, method of attachment, parasitic capacitance should all come into play.

I think David got my point, possibly. A watch hand can still resonate, although with different modes than a round or flat wire. I don't see how this is inherently better than a shaped wire or specially formed part for the job.

As I'm sure you know, if you buy a UM57 replacement capsule from Thiersch, it comes with a gold wire lead rather than a watch hand.

[miics]

Hi all.  

Klaus, did you get a chance to try the capsules at distance yet?  cheers

[Klaus Heyne]

I have not. Too much pressing jobs right now.
But thanks for reminding me. I will add it to my list of priorities.

[miics]

Hi Klaus, thanks for the reply.  Please don't be pressured to do it too soon, i was just enquiring.  I can honestly say that i know what it is like to be very busy, i don't want to sound pushy.  thanks again, i hope all are well.

cheers