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Author Topic: "Comrade Bush! How are you?"  (Read 1711 times)

sui-city

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MDM,

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Re: "Comrade Bush! How are you?"
« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2008, 02:49:36 pm »

"One of our economists was telling us that Bush has just implemented communism for the rich," Castro said.
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I must study politics and war that my sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy .. in order to give their children a right to study painting, poetry and music.
John Adams (1735-1826) 2nd President, United States

Edvaard

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Re: "Comrade Bush! How are you?"
« Reply #2 on: October 10, 2008, 09:19:51 pm »

sui-city wrote on Fri, 10 October 2008 07:07

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/world/story/53611.html




"Bush is privatizing risk and socializing losses."




GREAT line.

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RSettee

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Re: "Comrade Bush! How are you?"
« Reply #3 on: October 10, 2008, 11:04:22 pm »

Conservatism has more in line with communism....and communism doesn't work (aside from Cuba, but they're in an economic timewarp). I said early on here that the bailouts were communistic.  When you try to have a communistic approach in a faux capitalistic world, the results are absolutely disastrous, as we are seeing. Few will believe that it was the communistic approach of the 40 hour work week and other things (social welfare) that led to this, and led less and less people to have to fight for their own way.

I abhor plenty of tenets of capitalism. But nowhere near the abhorrance of socialism--communism only benefits the lazy or inept. Because there's no reason to work harder than the next guy, if the next guy is automatically entitled to the same share. Consequently, there's no reason for the little business to take a risk, if the big businesses can screw up and have the rewards be capitalized, but the losses be socialized. You could say that there's no reason to work harder than the next guy, if the next guy can screw up and have his or her losses be covered....smaller businesses never earn enough capital or socialist merits (large staffing, etc) to benefit from losses....if they lose enough money, they simply can't afford to pay for overhead and rent and staff and supplies like the big businesses can, that can always find enough loans to float them through the next tax writeoff year.

Take the NHL, for example--most markets are losing money, but they're all a great tax writeoff for the rich. If you factor in writeoffs, the government has always encouraged businesses to lose money....a noble gesture seeing as that you need capital to make capital, but they know that not every business or enterprise can find enough financing to compete head to head with the major corporations' ad budgets, staffing, production and will simply capitulate.

In that sense, you could say that failure has always driven the economy. It's just that we've never really seen the magnitude of failure that's been evidenced by Fannie, Freddie, the housing market, the auto makers, etc. If they lost money, they still stimulated economic growth in other areas of the world, seeing as that rent needs to be paid monthly, workers need to be paid bi-weekly, etc. And as a business, you still have to have enough money during the year, and/ or shuffle around enough bills or late payments to float the day to day operations.

As we all know, some of the big companies don't pay their bills on time, and shuffle around which bills don't get paid right away, and some of the smaller businesses suffer. Again, that's all a tax writeoff for the bigger companies, who can afford to be delinquent, simply because they're the hand that feeds, and the government won't cut them off from funding. For the little business though, that's a death knell....and the inherent problem in socializing losses....the financial problems just get shuffled around to whoever's the weakest link.

And when this many businesses are in trouble, that's alot of late payments and alot of needy bank accounts that need the safety net of socialism to help them out. That's alot of big business that are all looking to pass off the cost of failure onto whoever's the weakest link....in this case, the American tax payer.
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grantis

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Re: "Comrade Bush! How are you?"
« Reply #4 on: October 10, 2008, 11:54:41 pm »

Communism?  Really?  Are you still able to buy what you want?  When you want?  Where you want?  Lets not exaggerate.

The bailout hasn't failed yet.  It's only just begun.  We can't expect it to have a magical effect to restore the economy to that of 1998 overnight.  It will take time and a lot of undoing.  

Just gotta give it more than a week.
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Grant Craig
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maxim

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Re: "Comrade Bush! How are you?"
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2008, 01:41:25 am »

it's like throwing aces into a collapsing house of cards...
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sui-city

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Re: "Comrade Bush! How are you?"
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2008, 02:08:00 am »

grant richard wrote on Sat, 11 October 2008 05:54

Communism?  Really?  Are you still able to buy what you want?  When you want?  Where you want?  Lets not exaggerate.

The bailout hasn't failed yet.  It's only just begun.  We can't expect it to have a magical effect to restore the economy to that of 1998 overnight.  It will take time and a lot of undoing.  

Just gotta give it more than a week.


you're optimistic!
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grantis

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Re: "Comrade Bush! How are you?"
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2008, 02:34:29 am »

sui-city wrote on Sat, 11 October 2008 01:08

grant richard wrote on Sat, 11 October 2008 05:54

Communism?  Really?  Are you still able to buy what you want?  When you want?  Where you want?  Lets not exaggerate.

The bailout hasn't failed yet.  It's only just begun.  We can't expect it to have a magical effect to restore the economy to that of 1998 overnight.  It will take time and a lot of undoing.  

Just gotta give it more than a week.


you're optimistic!


Well, the way I see it is, I KNOW it's not gonna work in a week.  I know there's little faith out there that it will work.  But nothing works that fast.  This will take us at the very least into beginning-middle '09, with or without bailout, maybe longer.

The only thing that failed for sure is the idea that just passing a bill would give investors confidence to stabilize the exchanges.  THAT did not work.

Not to worry though, a new stimulus package is in the works!!!  Wink
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Grant Craig
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MDM,

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Re: "Comrade Bush! How are you?"
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2008, 11:01:40 am »

COLLECTIVISM.. with the objective of creating huge infrastructures which will be controlled by a few.
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I must study politics and war that my sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy .. in order to give their children a right to study painting, poetry and music.
John Adams (1735-1826) 2nd President, United States

Podgorny

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Re: "Comrade Bush! How are you?"
« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2008, 11:24:31 am »

grant richard wrote on Sat, 11 October 2008 01:34

I KNOW it's not gonna work in a week.  I know there's little faith out there that it will work.  But nothing works that fast.






index.php/fa/10123/0/



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"Nobody cares what the impedance is; all they care about is when you can walk into the room, set up a mic, turn the knobs, hit record, and make everybody go 'wow.'"

RSettee

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Re: "Comrade Bush! How are you?"
« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2008, 12:43:45 pm »

grant richard wrote on Fri, 10 October 2008 22:54

Communism?  Really?  Are you still able to buy what you want?  When you want?  Where you want?  Lets not exaggerate.


Not true communism, like I say faux capitalism--the worst aspects of capitalism (greed at the top), for enablement of failure (socialism). They've learned how to swing both methods around to suit whatever benefits them the best, and that is a scary, scary tenet of the Republican rule of the last 8 years. They're the ones that de-regulated.

Quote:

The bailout hasn't failed yet.  It's only just begun.  We can't expect it to have a magical effect to restore the economy to that of 1998 overnight.  It will take time and a lot of undoing.  

Just gotta give it more than a week.


How many weeks do you want to give it and how many tax dollars do you want to sink into it to find out "when it's going to work?". Their whole economy is built on a false foundation--people that couldn't afford their houses, cars, etc. And when that happens, layoffs and downsizing are an inevitable part of something that was never there to begin with....because when you can still qualify for bailouts, what's the penalty for failure? Ultimately you have to ask yourself what type of system this is that teaches people that it's alright to fail, that you'll get bailed out.

Russia collapsed because that just did not work and their economy was a shambles. Socialism benefits only those at the bottom or the top. The people in the middle (read: us, the middle/ working class) don't. They fund those at the bottom or the top. At least capitalism benefits those that are at the top....but with this system, failed businesses that are at the bottom work their way back to the top, that would have otherwise went under in a true capitalist economy to let others that are more competitive and offer better products. If they get back up there, that is, but not without huge government (read: your tax money) bailouts.

That's the whole thing--there's companies that aren't in trouble, that offer better services, plans, products.....but the ones that have shot themselves in the feet (ie: GM, with high interest rates) never saw the forest for the trees, and i'd have to say "to hell with them" and let a better company rise from the ashes; one that realizes that electric vehicles--and the dependence on oil--needs to be abolished. The oil companies actually helped sink GM and the other car manufacturers--yet GM, with their clout, didn't do much about it. Cars meant to run on hydrogen and water were developed; the auto makers bought them out because they were at the tit of the oil companies. Even smaller car companies were squelched and bought out (if not threatened)--look at the Tucker story. The big auto makers and oil companies haven't wanted anything to compete with them for decades, and they've bought out all the successful technology, bought out all the prototypes that were meant to provide us with a better product, threw them in the garbage, and now they want a bailout? Fuck 'em, let 'em rot.

Look at Chrysler and how many sub-lines that they've bought out--Daimler, Jeep, etc. You have to be much more afraid of the mega conglomerates that succeed.....because if they fail, down goes all the otherwise independent manufacturers that could have been designing their own vehicles and offering competition to make better vehicles and products. The mega conglomerates have long got so complacent by buying out the competition, that they've put all of the customer's eggs in one basket.

Enter however many more years of bad decisions for those companies up ahead. It doesn't look good. The word "if", funded on your tax dollars, should make you angry. There's a good amount of businesses that do great business, offer great products, but are realistic--they don't employ thousands of employees based around a financial myth. In amongst all this Wall Street crashing hoopla, the public is neglecting to put emphasis on all the businesses that are doing great.
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grantis

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Re: "Comrade Bush! How are you?"
« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2008, 02:02:47 pm »

Podgorny wrote on Sat, 11 October 2008 10:24

grant richard wrote on Sat, 11 October 2008 01:34

I KNOW it's not gonna work in a week.  I know there's little faith out there that it will work.  But nothing works that fast.






index.php/fa/10123/0/







Ohhhhh...you...why you little....

ok ya got me.
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Grant Craig
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seedyunderbelly.com

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Re: "Comrade Bush! How are you?"
« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2008, 08:18:01 am »

It is Socialism though.

ssltech

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Re: "Comrade Bush! How are you?"
« Reply #13 on: October 13, 2008, 09:30:08 am »

grant richard wrote on Fri, 10 October 2008 23:54

Communism?  Really?  Are you still able to buy what you want?  When you want?  Where you want?  Lets not exaggerate.


Just be very sure that you're clear on the difference between communism and Soviet communism/sovietism...

Keith
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MDM (maxdimario) wrote on Fri, 16 November 2007 21:36

I have the feeling that I have more experience in my little finger than you do in your whole body about audio electronics..

RSettee

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Re: "Comrade Bush! How are you?"
« Reply #14 on: October 13, 2008, 12:18:34 pm »

ssltech wrote on Mon, 13 October 2008 08:30

grant richard wrote on Fri, 10 October 2008 23:54

Communism?  Really?  Are you still able to buy what you want?  When you want?  Where you want?  Lets not exaggerate.


Just be very sure that you're clear on the difference between communism and Soviet communism/sovietism...

Keith


As in Stalin and Trotsky?
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