R/E/P Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: 1 2 [All]   Go Down

Author Topic: SSL 4000 G Alignment?  (Read 20837 times)

jwhmca

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7
SSL 4000 G Alignment?
« on: September 30, 2008, 12:02:50 AM »

About a year ago, I remember reading this nice Alignment procedure for all the 611 daughter cards EQ... DYN... etc.

For the life of me I can't seem to find it NOW!

Any ideas on which manual it is in?
Logged

Dave Hecht

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 457
Re: SSL 4000 G Alignment?
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2008, 02:46:34 AM »

I recall getting a copy of the alignment procedure direct from SSL years ago. I don't recall it being in the service manual. If it was included in the manual, I'd expect it to be in the console service manual in section 1 - channel module. I doubt I'll have a chance to scan and upload it, but you can give recycled audio a try, they're former SSL staff providing support for E & G series consoles.

Dave Hecht
Logged

jwhmca

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7
Re: SSL 4000 G Alignment?
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2008, 01:36:13 PM »

Unless I'm completely blind it's not in the Console service manual.
Logged

jwhmca

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7
Re: SSL 4000 G Alignment?
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2008, 01:50:45 PM »

Found...

If any body else needs it let me know.

BTW. It was loose in a folder of old papers from the original owner.
Logged

Geoff Doane

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 123
Re: SSL 4000 G Alignment?
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2008, 08:15:59 AM »

On the topic of SSL 4000 alignment, it looks like I will shortly want to adjust the power supply voltages for our console.  The manual says to measure the analog (or analogue) and logic voltages along the bottom of the 615 frame's motherboard, and adjust the voltages at the power supplies.  That seems simple enough, except that the power supplies are in a different room from the console (probably not an uncommon scenario).  Does anyone have tips for accomplishing this?

The other wrinkle for this installation is the fact that there are two power supplies, connected to a "changeover" panel, and then to the 48 channel console.  The PSUs are essentially in parallel (through the steering diodes in the changeover panel), and feed the whole console, except that one supply can't provide enough current for the whole console, only the center section and four buckets.  When the console was commissioned, the factory tech carefully balanced the two sets of supply voltages so they would share the load more or less equally.  I forget his exact technique, but I was planning to adjust each supply while it was running the center section and three buckets.  Does this sound like it could work?

GTD
Logged

amorris

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1029
Re: SSL 4000 G Alignment?
« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2008, 11:00:45 AM »

Quote:

the power supplies are in a different room from the console (probably not an uncommon scenario). Does anyone have tips for accomplishing this?


an assistant with a cell phone?
Logged

Geoff Doane

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 123
Re: SSL 4000 G Alignment?
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2008, 02:03:56 PM »

amorris wrote on Thu, 02 October 2008 12:00

Quote:

the power supplies are in a different room from the console (probably not an uncommon scenario). Does anyone have tips for accomplishing this?


an assistant with a cell phone?


That had occurred to me, but I think I'd miss the more immediate visual feedback.  I was thinking more along the lines of short circuit protecting the voltage lines, adapting them to an XLR and trunking them into the equipment room.  With the 10MΩ input resistance of the DVM, I figured all that extra wire wouldn't matter, but I'm open to suggestions.

GTD
Logged

Dave Hecht

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 457
Re: SSL 4000 G Alignment?
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2008, 03:00:52 PM »

Definitely an assistant with a cell phone. I just have someone read the voltages to me - not just "up" & "down" - it actually works quite well.

As for the calibration, it should be done, one supply at a time, with 40 channels ( 5 buckets) and the center section powered up. Set the 20v (18v) rails to +/- 18.6v by reading between each rail and ground, and the 7 v rails to 6.5v by reading between the +18v and 11v rails. Also, be careful inside the supply - the trims are on the motherboard. You have to reach down with a long screwdriver. Either insulate the blade with shrink tubing, or use a fiberglass blade.

Dave Hecht
Logged

Geoff Doane

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 123
Re: SSL 4000 G Alignment?
« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2008, 09:16:49 AM »

Thanks Dave.  I don't remember the factory tech using someone else to help with the adjustments, but it's been more than 10 years.  Embarassed I assumed he had some trick or another for doing this.

My recollection is that one supply won't run 40 channels without tripping an overcurrent device somewhere, but maybe my memory is fuzzy on that too.

What has precipitated this is one of the regulator cards failing.  The little transformer is only putting out about half the voltage it should.  For a long screwdriver, I still have my long insulated tweaker for adjusting the MCI plasma meters.

GTD
Logged

ssltech

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4780
Re: SSL 4000 G Alignment?
« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2008, 10:11:27 PM »

The SL611 calibration adjustment instructions which I have are what I use on the SL612 test jig, but they can also be done in the console. -And no, they were never included as part of the standard manual so far as I know, but they were written as a specification/standard for in-house testing/calibration, and were shared/leaked fairly generously over the years.

For center-section calibrating of the PSUs, either walkie-talkie or cellphone/intercom an assistant...

...OR...

Run a 6-conductor cable from a panel in the machine room to the console center section, and tap it to "sniff" the rails. -For a one-off calibration it gan be temporarily tacked-in at the console end, and run through doorways; -in a better-planned installation, this can be made permanent, and available on the wall to maybe a pair of probe sockets and a 5-way switch, with +18, -18, +13 +48 and +250(x10) on it... with a 9-meg resistance in series with the +250 line. -Plugging a 1mΩ input impedance fluke meter in to this socket for example -just like a scope- will cause +263 volts to read 26.3V.

This can be used to measure AND read from the machine room... on a panel next to the power supply changeover unit for example.

When setting these up, I like to power off approximately HALF of the buckets for a 2-PSU setup. That way each respective PSU inder test is supplying approx. 50% of the total load, which will reflect its anticipated load once both supplies are on. For a 3-PSU setup, popwer off two-thirds of the console, and so forth.

If you REALLY want to make things super-fly, you can build in a digital panel meter properly accommodated, next to the rotary switch. -I have an LCD unit here which I've been MEANING to get round to doing that with...

...-one of these days... (sigh!)

Keith
Logged
MDM (maxdimario) wrote on Fri, 16 November 2007 21:36

I have the feeling that I have more experience in my little finger than you do in your whole body about audio electronics..

Dave Hecht

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 457
Re: SSL 4000 G Alignment?
« Reply #10 on: October 04, 2008, 07:06:48 PM »

Geoff Doane wrote on Fri, 03 October 2008 06:16

Thanks Dave.  I don't remember the factory tech using someone else to help with the adjustments, but it's been more than 10 years.  Embarassed I assumed he had some trick or another for doing this.

My recollection is that one supply won't run 40 channels without tripping an overcurrent device somewhere, but maybe my memory is fuzzy on that too.

What has precipitated this is one of the regulator cards failing.  The little transformer is only putting out about half the voltage it should.  For a long screwdriver, I still have my long insulated tweaker for adjusting the MCI plasma meters.

GTD



I just finished installing & calibrating a G+ a month ago, used the 40 channel + center section method to set up the supplies - worked fine.

As I recall from some old SSL literature, one supply can handle 40 channels, center section + bargraphs.

Dave Hecht
Logged

ssltech

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4780
Re: SSL 4000 G Alignment?
« Reply #11 on: October 05, 2008, 05:45:14 PM »

A 40 channel console is about the biggest that I'd run with a single supply, but back in the 1980s SSL was supplying 48-channel consoles from new with a SINGLE supply... over time I've come to regard this as 'optimistic', and a local 40-loaded studio has TWO supplies and a changeover unit which was retrofitted here in Florida... Owing to a MAJOR flame-out in the original PSU, one supply feeds only
Logged
MDM (maxdimario) wrote on Fri, 16 November 2007 21:36

I have the feeling that I have more experience in my little finger than you do in your whole body about audio electronics..

Dave Hecht

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 457
Re: SSL 4000 G Alignment?
« Reply #12 on: October 05, 2008, 06:29:34 PM »

Completely agree. Years ago I had a 40 ch 6K that ran on one supply with no problems. Anything bigger than that requires an additional supply. The ideal setups I've seen had 1 more supply than needed to run comfortably - a 72 ch w 3 supplies and a 96 ch w 4 supplies. In the event of a failure in one supply, the console can continue to run with no problem.

Dave Hecht
Logged

John Monforte

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 272
Re: SSL 4000 G Alignment?
« Reply #13 on: October 06, 2008, 10:55:45 PM »

You can do it by yourself. Here's how.

Measure the voltage at the console end with one supply on. Figure out the difference between where you are and where you need to be. Measure the voltage at the output of the switchover unit. Change it by the amount you figured in the previous step.

Now, to share the load as much as possible, turn on the second supply. Measure the difference voltage across the outputs of the supplies (or the inputs to the changeover unit) and set the second supply for 0v difference.

Logged
From conception to posterity through invisible technology.

meteo

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4
Re: SSL 4000 G Alignment?
« Reply #14 on: January 02, 2011, 11:15:46 AM »

hi guys, can someone tell me wich trimmer have i to move on the psu to align the +20 v? i've seen under the regulator cards that ther are more than one. so wich one is it correct?
i have an ssl 400e.
Thanks a lot.
Logged

ssltech

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4780
Re: SSL 4000 G Alignment?
« Reply #15 on: January 02, 2011, 02:50:35 PM »

...It should be labeled.

Keith
Logged
MDM (maxdimario) wrote on Fri, 16 November 2007 21:36

I have the feeling that I have more experience in my little finger than you do in your whole body about audio electronics..

meteo

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4
Re: SSL 4000 G Alignment?
« Reply #16 on: January 03, 2011, 03:27:36 AM »

labeled with what? in the pcb i have one trimmer with written "max" and others trimmers with different name. wich is the right one?
Logged

ssltech

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4780
Re: SSL 4000 G Alignment?
« Reply #17 on: January 03, 2011, 09:20:38 AM »

Look again. The one which you're reading as 'Max' will be "I MAX" which is maximum current before shut down.

They should all be labeled in the silk screen with their function, and each rail's regulator/trimpot grouping should also be identified.
Logged
MDM (maxdimario) wrote on Fri, 16 November 2007 21:36

I have the feeling that I have more experience in my little finger than you do in your whole body about audio electronics..

meteo

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4
Re: SSL 4000 G Alignment?
« Reply #18 on: January 03, 2011, 06:25:39 PM »

so the i max is the correct trim that i have to move to calibrate 20v?
Logged

ssltech

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4780
Re: SSL 4000 G Alignment?
« Reply #19 on: January 03, 2011, 11:26:12 PM »

No... that's the maximum current... hence "I Max".

If what the various markings mean isn't clear to you, I would STRONGLY caution you against making the adjustment yourself.

Keith
Logged
MDM (maxdimario) wrote on Fri, 16 November 2007 21:36

I have the feeling that I have more experience in my little finger than you do in your whole body about audio electronics..

meteo

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4
Re: SSL 4000 G Alignment?
« Reply #20 on: January 04, 2011, 03:22:17 AM »

i've seen my tech many times doing it, but i've never done by my self. is not possibile to know wich trim have i to use instead of being so misterius? i'm here just to learn something new. is not the main reason why someone writes on a forum? im glad for your help and patience, but i can't undestand why with a so simple question there's should be such a big mistery..
Logged

ssltech

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4780
Re: SSL 4000 G Alignment?
« Reply #21 on: January 04, 2011, 10:16:17 AM »

Well the risk is that the power supply is capable of doing considerable damage if wrongly set, and "I've seen my tech doing this before" is a line in a song which I've heard several times, frequently following the line "I can't understand what went wrong", if you know what I mean.

Seriously though, ALL of those trim pots are there for a reason, and they can and do interact. Increasing or decreasing the voltage will increase or decrease the quiescent current load. -Setting the current trip too low or too high can result in either insufficient failure protection (although SSL consoles do have a couple of 'levels' of protection; the breakers at the patchbay being one example)

The four trimpots for that rail (some only have three... +250/263V being one, but I'm pretty sure from memory that +20V and -20V have all four) are (I think) labeled Vmax, Vout, Itrip and I-SC.

If you don't have a fairly thorough understanding of V and I and how they interact (which is the most basic law of electronics; Ohm's law) then I hope that you can understand my concern that you really REALLY might be better advised to consider having someone ELSE do this; someone with a bit more experience.

WATCHING a tech turn a screwdriver in a trim pot is one thing. -What you see is a hand turning a screwdriver. -What you DON'T see is the thought process which keeps an eye open for anticipated problems, and a reasoning which knows when to shut the power off... FAST.

-Honestly, I'm not trying to be mysterious or 'elitist'. I'm just concerned from the questions that you've asked and how you've asked them, because when I've answered those questions in the past without this amount of caution, I've -more times than I care to count- received a phone call the next day which begins: "Okay... I switched everything off REALLY fast, but when can you get over here and take a look at something".

Honestly, I believe that EVERY tech who reads the information I've already given you before this post would be able to know how to do it. -Power supplies are NOT things that you fiddle and tweak unless you have a working knowledge of electronics, and asking if 'I Max' is what you turn to adjust the +20V voltage honestly suggests to me that you don't.

Please... anyone else who thinks I'm out of line or over-reacting, feel free to chime in and correct me.

Keith
Logged
MDM (maxdimario) wrote on Fri, 16 November 2007 21:36

I have the feeling that I have more experience in my little finger than you do in your whole body about audio electronics..

radardoug

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 74
Re: SSL 4000 G Alignment?
« Reply #22 on: January 09, 2011, 02:02:58 PM »

meteo wrote on Tue, 04 January 2011 02:22

i've seen my tech many times doing it, but i've never done by my self. is not possibile to know wich trim have i to use instead of being so misterius? i'm here just to learn something new. is not the main reason why someone writes on a forum? im glad for your help and patience, but i can't undestand why with a so simple question there's should be such a big mistery..


SSltech is absolutely right in his reply, coming I suspect from many years of experience with desks and clients.
When I read your post I get ***Warning Warning***. Now you might have seen your tech do it, but please, get him back and pay him again! The power supply on an SSL is capable of doing enormous damage to itself, the console, and to you. It might just sit there most of the time, but it is connected to the mains, and is designed  to control a large amount of power. If that power finds the wrong path to ground, like you for instance, then it could be very bad.

Tell me, would you step in front of a train? because this supply could do the same to you.
Would you put your car in front of a train? because that power supply can do the same to your console.

If you want to learn, talk to your tech, study for 10 years, become an apprentice. Knowledge is power, but stupidity is everywhere.
Logged

CWHumphrey

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 914
Re: SSL 4000 G Alignment?
« Reply #23 on: January 09, 2011, 04:46:36 PM »

E=IR

That pretty much tells the story.

But seriously, if you've changed any of those pots inside of the PSU, stop now and call a qualified tech.

Unfortunately, this calibration was not one of SSL's better ideas.  It's a 2 man job.

I don't miss sticking my hands inside and feeling like I'm going to get shocked at any moment by the filter cap.

Cheers,
Logged
Carter William Humphrey

"Indeed...oh three named one!" -Terry Manning
"Or you can just have Carter do the recording, because he's Humphrey."-J.J. Blair
Pages: 1 2 [All]   Go Up
 

Site Hosted By Ashdown Technologies, Inc.

Page created in 0.108 seconds with 16 queries.