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[brandondrury]

I think the issues that I've dealt with occur because many factors change as the level changes.  Generally, just whispering into a condensor sounds fine.  An all out scream will get the room into the mic more profoundly.  An even bigger problem is that some voices change in character in extreme amounts as they begin to wail.  I noticed this recently as a rock singer's voice sounded nice and full during the verses.  When he got the choruses, it was night and day.  Of course it was about 400 dB louder so it sounded bigger.  However, in mixing, when I rode the volume to even it out quite a bit, the choruses ended up sounding weak and very thin.  All the low end from his voice was gone.  I mean everything under 1000 Hz was gone...damn near.  It sounded more like a telephone than a AKG 414.  

I'm not sure if should tell a singer to back off a little bit (which may or many not kill the energy of the tune) or simply adapt my technique around his.  

As was posted previously, a distant mic with a gate could work.  Of course, this doesn't solve the thin problem which comes from the source (his vocal chords).  Generally, a scream should sound thin and seldom sounds "full" by nature.  However, this dude was still singing.

Hell, I don't know what I'm talking about.  The bottom line is the choruses sounded like a telephone and the versus sounded fine.  What the hell is the solution?

Brandon

[meenie]

I have definitely encountered this problem on the last project I was on.....

The singer we were working with had the most INSANE dynamic range of just about Anyone I've ever worked with....the lod passages were  unbelievably LOUD!! I never realised from listening to his other records just how loud he actually did sing. We were tracking the vocals with an ELAM 251 into an EMI console and using an old UA 176 (tube) limiter to control it somewhat, but in the end we had to back him off quite a bit- maybe 12"-15" or so (!!) but thankfully with the 251 it still sounded like he was right in your ear!  

Just my cent and a half.

[holm]

brandondrury wrote on Wed, 09 June 2004 18:36

All the low end from his voice was gone.  I mean everything under 1000 Hz was gone...damn near.  It sounded more like a telephone than a AKG 414.   I'm not sure if should tell a singer to back off a little bit (which may or many not kill the energy of the tune) or simply adapt my technique around his.

The thing is, if you are recording in cardioid mode with the mic, the more away you step from it the more low end you'll lose and the more nasal it will sound. I used to do the "step away from the microphone" thing myself but it seemed to make things worse. You could do it with more success in a completely dead room and the mic in omni mode, but again, many people don't like to sing in dead rooms and many engineers tend not to like how vocals sound in dead room. But this is a thing that you could maybe experiment with... Also in my opinion most mics sound nicer and less nasal in omni mode overall. And you can go really on to the mic that way...

[meenie]

Yeah but the "nasal" thing is soo dependent on the mic and the room- like I said before this particular 251 we were using (it was modded as well) sounded fantastic with the singer backed off..

And the room we were in was pretty damn live and BIG. The vocal sat in the track and had so much depth and presence to it. Lets not count out the singer himself(or herself) and the technique of said singer. more than 80% of the battle IMHO.