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Author Topic: New Bock '5-Zero-7' Microphone  (Read 26537 times)

Ryan Slowey

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New Bock '5-Zero-7' Microphone
« on: September 17, 2008, 11:43:24 AM »

Hello everyone. I came across this over at Gearslutz and thought some of you would be interested.

http://www.transaudioelite.com/trlanewelboa.html

I'd love to hear more about the "elliptical large capsule design".


Best,
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Ryan Slowey
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My music: http://maggotbrainny.bandcamp.com

skemp

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Re: New Bock 5-Zero-7 mic...
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2008, 01:44:03 PM »

If the production model is the same as the prototype, I believe this mic will be a major player in the vocal recording arena. Its been awhile since I've had it, but it showed very well against an elite field of classics including a U47, M49, and a C12. This was only on male voice, my own, and was not a comprehensive evaluation. Having said that, my reaction to this mic was, "Holy S--t," get this mic into production. Great balance, clarity, dimension, and a general feeling of well being!
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maarvold

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Re: New Bock 5-Zero-7 mic...
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2008, 12:57:25 AM »

This TransAudio Group's description of this mic sounds interesting.  Anyone know what tube?  
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Michael Aarvold
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Barry Hufker

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Re: New Bock 5-Zero-7 mic...
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2008, 01:35:34 AM »

I'm excited to see Mr. Bock do this.  Not only do we have another fine vocal mic (based on what I'm reading), but it lifts Bock squarely out of the "clone" manufacturers into the category of "innovative microphone manufacturers."  That's an amazing accomplishment, assuming the microphone is everything that is being said about it.

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recordinghacks

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Re: New Bock 5-Zero-7 mic...
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2008, 01:51:44 PM »

I had the privilege to hear the new Bock 507 recently, and I spoke to Mr. Bock about the mic's history and design. I've collected quite a bit of info about it on RecordingHacks:

David Bock's new elliptical-capsule microphone

More specs and detail, and comments from George Cardas, can be found in the microphone database:

Bock Audio 507

In brief, the elliptical capsule was conceived and patented by George Cardas, but developed and perfected in collaboration with David Bock. The 507 has two diaphragms, but only the front is wired.

The mic's amplifier circuit is based on the U47. The tube is an EF814 or EF814k, which David said "has a lot of similarity to the VF14 without being a metal jacket." This is not a common tube, AFAICT; David suggested he had stockpiled these for his own use in his products. I believe he also used this tube in the Soundelux E47C.

The articles above link to the Cardas patent, if you're interested in reading more about that. I also dug up some info on the EL308, which was to be the first elliptical-capsule mic, and which may be reintroduced in the future as a multipattern version of the 507 (which is cardioid-only).

I think this is one of the most exciting mics I've seen in a long time.
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J.J. Blair

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Re: New Bock 5-Zero-7 mic...
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2008, 02:32:08 PM »

I was visiting David yesterday, and we talked about the general concept of choosing tubes for his products.  He is a big believer in making sure he uses a tube that can be available for some time.  We talked bout the 5670 he uses in the 251, for instance, where he's using 5 star GE versions.  He felt that the life of a 6072 was longer, but he was more concerned with being able to have replacements available for his customers for a long time to come.  I appreciate this kind of forethought.

David might be making the best mics available right now.  He's very thoughtful about his components and construction, and is using Haun capsules, which might be the best capsules made right now.  He's even using Hovland Musicaps in the transformer coupling position.  He's making each mic himself, letting them burn in, and then putting them through tests that I don't think any of the other boutique US makers are doing.  

He showed me the copper foil coupling cap that will be going in the 507.  Heavy, and expensive to have made.  But that's the type of detail and standard he has for his product.
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Eric H.

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Re: New Bock 5-Zero-7 mic...
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2009, 09:02:16 PM »

Has anyone recorded with this 5-zero-7 yet?
It would be good to have some kind of review, maybe in the acid test forum?
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eric harizanos

J.J. Blair

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Re: New Bock 5-Zero-7 mic...
« Reply #7 on: June 14, 2009, 10:49:29 AM »

I have the review half written. I'm on vacation right now. I may or may not get to it while I'm here.  
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They say the heart of Rock & Roll is still beating, which is amazing if you consider all the blow it's done over the years.

"The Internet enables pompous blowhards to interact with other pompous blowhards in a big circle jerk of pomposity." - Bill Maher

"The negative aspects of this business, not only will continue to prevail, but will continue to accelerate in madness. Conditions aren't going to get better, because the economics of rock and roll are getting closer and closer to the economics of Big Business America." - Bill Graham

Schallfeldnebel

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Re: New Bock '5-Zero-7' Microphone
« Reply #8 on: June 14, 2009, 11:35:38 AM »

The idea of an elliptical capsule is maybe not so groundbreaking as it may seem, because the Pearl and Milab rectangular capsules are by approximation also elliptical. A rectangular capsule has a less steep resonance frequency, the same reason why David Bock designed the elliptical capsule.

A side effect of the rectangular capsule is different polar patterns for horizontal and vertical angles. I assume the elliptical capsule will show a more subtle change from the horizontal to the vertical plane than the rectangular capsule. Probably the differences between the horizontal and vertical plane will be larger with the rectangular capsule, espescially the new dubbel version ELM, Pearl is making.

http://www.pearl.se/kondens_mono/elm/elm.htm

SFN
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Tomas Danko

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Re: New Bock '5-Zero-7' Microphone
« Reply #9 on: June 14, 2009, 11:40:06 AM »

And then there's the Ehrlund Triangle microphone capsule:
http://www.jamshop.se/html/ehrlund_triangle.htm
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Barry Hufker

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Re: New Bock 5-Zero-7 mic...
« Reply #10 on: June 14, 2009, 11:44:16 AM »

J.J. Blair wrote on Sun, 14 June 2009 09:49

I have the review half written. I'm on vacation right now. I may or may not get to it while I'm here.  


One would like to think that because you're on vacation you definitely won't get to it...


Barry
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Schallfeldnebel

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Re: New Bock '5-Zero-7' Microphone
« Reply #11 on: June 14, 2009, 12:53:21 PM »

The Ehrland triangular microphone is still round on the outside, I expect no difference in the horizontal and vertical plane.
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Bill Mueller:"Only very recently, has the availability of cheap consumer based gear popularized the concept of a rank amateur as an audio engineer. Unfortunately, this has also degraded the reputation of the audio engineer to the lowest level in its history. A sad thing indeed for those of us professionals."

David Bock

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Re: New Bock '5-Zero-7' Microphone
« Reply #12 on: June 17, 2009, 01:47:39 PM »

Quote:

rectangular capsules are by approximation also elliptical
I assume by "also" I could substitute the the term "equivalent". In what way is a rectangle equivalent to an ellipse? PS:don't answer "area"!
Quote:

A rectangular capsule has a less steep resonance frequency
Less steep than what? Please elaborate.

Schallfeldnebel

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Re: New Bock '5-Zero-7' Microphone
« Reply #13 on: June 17, 2009, 03:03:42 PM »

I meant to say "rectangular capsules are by approximation also elliptical in their behaviour"

Rectangular capsules have different polar patterns for the horizontal and vertical plane, I expect the elliptical capsule by approximation will have similar behaviour.

I learned from the maker of the Pearl rectangular capsules, a rectangular capsule has not one strong resonance as a round capsule. I expect similarities with the elliptical capsule.


Probably the elliptical capsule is the best of two worlds.

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Bill Mueller:"Only very recently, has the availability of cheap consumer based gear popularized the concept of a rank amateur as an audio engineer. Unfortunately, this has also degraded the reputation of the audio engineer to the lowest level in its history. A sad thing indeed for those of us professionals."

gwailoh

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Re: New Bock 5-Zero-7 mic...
« Reply #14 on: August 08, 2009, 01:04:52 PM »

Eric H. wrote on Sat, 13 June 2009 18:02

Has anyone recorded with this 5-zero-7 yet?
It would be good to have some kind of review, maybe in the acid test forum?


Bumping this thread to echo Eric's sentiments.  Would be interested to learn of users' experiences.

Arf! Mastering

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Re: New Bock 5-Zero-7 mic...
« Reply #15 on: August 08, 2009, 02:00:43 PM »

I did a vocal session with the Cardas version of the mic.  It was a smooth, big lovely sound, but I felt the M7 mic it was up against retained a little more emotional energy.   My opinion at the time was that the capsule idea might work better if it were a tad smaller.   There seemed to be a torsion-spring effect to the elliptical design that "absorbed" and dissipated some energy.  Others on the session preferred the elliptical capsule over the M7.
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J.J. Blair

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Re: New Bock 5-Zero-7 mic...
« Reply #16 on: August 08, 2009, 03:53:51 PM »

When you say the Cardas version, is it the same as the 5-zero-7?  Much of the sound of this mic results from the transformer that David uses, as well as the other components.  
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They say the heart of Rock & Roll is still beating, which is amazing if you consider all the blow it's done over the years.

"The Internet enables pompous blowhards to interact with other pompous blowhards in a big circle jerk of pomposity." - Bill Maher

"The negative aspects of this business, not only will continue to prevail, but will continue to accelerate in madness. Conditions aren't going to get better, because the economics of rock and roll are getting closer and closer to the economics of Big Business America." - Bill Graham

Barry Hufker

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Re: New Bock 5-Zero-7 mic...
« Reply #17 on: August 08, 2009, 03:58:50 PM »

Didn't Mr. Bock and Mr. Cardas work together to create the 5-zero-7?

In any event, J.J. what's the verdict?

Barry

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J.J. Blair

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Re: New Bock 5-Zero-7 mic...
« Reply #18 on: August 08, 2009, 04:28:59 PM »

They worked together on the capsule.  I have no idea what circuit is in the Cardas version.

The mic might have the best low end response of any mic I've ever heard.  The other frequencies sound delicious, as well.
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studio info

They say the heart of Rock & Roll is still beating, which is amazing if you consider all the blow it's done over the years.

"The Internet enables pompous blowhards to interact with other pompous blowhards in a big circle jerk of pomposity." - Bill Maher

"The negative aspects of this business, not only will continue to prevail, but will continue to accelerate in madness. Conditions aren't going to get better, because the economics of rock and roll are getting closer and closer to the economics of Big Business America." - Bill Graham

Brad Lunde

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Re: New Bock 5-Zero-7 mic...
« Reply #19 on: August 10, 2009, 05:42:42 PM »

JJ Has this right.  Cardas sold a few of his own versions of a mic with the capsule.  I never heard one or saw one.  

David is one of the brightest minds in mics around right now and turning him lose to design a new benchmark with such a unique capsule seems like a winner.  The first implementation of a mic with the capsule was the Bock 308 targeted at a flatter response.  The Bock 507 shoots for a different target, "big vocals", as its the one most people are looking for.   A big vocal mic that isn't too bright is hard to find outside of vintage.  I'd like sometime to have a version that does both 308 and 507 functions in one mic (508??) on a switch.  But one step at a time!


Contrary to some posts in this thread, the 507 is much more than a capsule.  Its a unique blend of tweaks in the amplifier, the custom transformer, the head grille shape, wire, power supply, etc, etc.   Saying its all about the capsule (like you hear people say its all about the tube) sells the whole project short.  This is a "build the best on all fronts" effort.  In that regard, its much the same thing we asked Klaus to do with the KHE.  Turn smart people loose, great things happen.

Brad  
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J.J. Blair

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Re: New Bock 5-Zero-7 mic...
« Reply #20 on: August 10, 2009, 06:33:17 PM »

Brad is right.  David is using a custom AMI/TAB transformer, as well as a custom transformer coupling cap, that both have a tremendous effect on the sound of this mic.  I've never heard anything like this mic.
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studio info

They say the heart of Rock & Roll is still beating, which is amazing if you consider all the blow it's done over the years.

"The Internet enables pompous blowhards to interact with other pompous blowhards in a big circle jerk of pomposity." - Bill Maher

"The negative aspects of this business, not only will continue to prevail, but will continue to accelerate in madness. Conditions aren't going to get better, because the economics of rock and roll are getting closer and closer to the economics of Big Business America." - Bill Graham

brett

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Re: New Bock 5-Zero-7 mic...
« Reply #21 on: August 10, 2009, 07:07:50 PM »

For $6400.00 it better be special!
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J.J. Blair

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Re: New Bock 5-Zero-7 mic...
« Reply #22 on: August 11, 2009, 05:43:35 PM »

Call David and demo one.  You'll be blown away.  It's a modern classic, like the KHE ... which was $10,000 new, btw.
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studio info

They say the heart of Rock & Roll is still beating, which is amazing if you consider all the blow it's done over the years.

"The Internet enables pompous blowhards to interact with other pompous blowhards in a big circle jerk of pomposity." - Bill Maher

"The negative aspects of this business, not only will continue to prevail, but will continue to accelerate in madness. Conditions aren't going to get better, because the economics of rock and roll are getting closer and closer to the economics of Big Business America." - Bill Graham

mullard

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Re: New Bock 5-Zero-7 mic...
« Reply #23 on: August 25, 2009, 07:33:40 AM »

It is exciting mic indeed.
In midrange it opens voice and somehow adds space in way unusual for other high quality mics. I dare to say that mic somehow sounds less true, but in pleasant way.
Actually it reminds me slightly to sound of good clean mic (like Brauner) that goes through slightly enhancing type of tube preamps.
Question is how it will sound in mixes, with other instruments and after processing.
I would not call it 'king' so far, as it would need lot of time to overtrone any of 'classic' heavyweighters.

VM1KHE or best ELAM251 (well, both way costlier options) will hardly become less in demand or more affordable with advent of 507, but I can understand excitement of people who tried it.
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masaki

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Re: New Bock 5-Zero-7 mic...
« Reply #24 on: August 26, 2009, 09:55:24 PM »

I have been tracking a lot lately with the 5-zero-7, I purchased it last week.  So far I've tracked 3 different singers, all of whom I've tracked on other mics.  (M149, U99, CAD VX2, C12) so far the 507 sounds bigger and warmer and more complementary to each of the voices.  I'm not saying this as a a/b comparison to the others... but just that the mic sounds wonderful on all 3 singers I used it on.  Congrats to David Bock on a brilliant product.
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ratite

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Re: New Bock 5-Zero-7 mic...
« Reply #25 on: October 20, 2009, 09:03:58 AM »

J.J. Blair wrote on Sun, 14 June 2009 23:49

I have the review half written. I'm on vacation right now. I may or may not get to it while I'm here.  


Maybe I missed it but did this review come out J.J.?
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Richard Horner
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maarvold

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Re: New Bock 5-Zero-7 mic...
« Reply #26 on: October 20, 2009, 11:50:05 AM »

I heard one very briefly at Village a few weeks ago and, if this economy ever comes back to life, it is very near the top of my 'must own' list.  For the record, I was expecting it to feel somewhat U47-like, but it isn't--at least not in the context and the brief time I heard it.  It struck me as, if you put all the 'Big 5' tube mics in a circle, somewhere in the middle ground of that field.  
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kats

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Re: New Bock 5-Zero-7 mic...
« Reply #27 on: October 20, 2009, 12:57:16 PM »

maarvold wrote on Tue, 20 October 2009 10:50

 It struck me as, if you put all the 'Big 5' tube mics in a circle, somewhere in the middle ground of that field.  



Perfect for those who cannot make a decision regarding anything in their life!
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Re: New Bock '5-Zero-7' Microphone
« Reply #28 on: October 20, 2009, 07:50:23 PM »

fwiw-  I heard the relation to the 47-- It is its own beast though--  It is fun watching Bock Audio right now-  I for one can not wait to own one-

j

Sean Eldon Qualls

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Re: New Bock '5-Zero-7' Microphone
« Reply #29 on: October 20, 2009, 08:22:32 PM »

Judging from the mic I heard at AES, on headphones I own (Beyerdynamic DT770's that David had at the booth), I agree with the relation...when you're directly on top of the thing.
Even two inches back is a different sport. What I heard was low frequencies easing off at a more steady/gradual rate (depending on distance) than on a U47...more forgiving. High frequency was also a little more relaxed and sort of sat in the right place. Kissing the grille yielded a similar result to amazing U47's I've encountered, both as an engineer and someone who attempts to sing.

I can't wait to to get one here and am considering owning one. Very pleasant wife, but not so understanding of $6k+ microphones.
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maarvold

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Re: New Bock '5-Zero-7' Microphone
« Reply #30 on: October 20, 2009, 08:54:06 PM »

Maybe this is why I had a somewhat different impression: David set it up as more of an overall pickup for a singer and an acoustic guitar player- 2 or 3 feet back from the players in a mid-sized iso booth.  

I was expecting it to be big & round and leaning toward dark (because of the lack of resonance in the capsule design), but the top end was quite present in a nice, pleasing, 'record-like' way, and not like the [darker] type of U47 examples I tend to gravitate towards.  

To my ear, the top end balance sort of split the difference between neutral and a 250/251 (but with a different top end flavor than a brass CK12)--at least in the context of that particular situation.  

BTW, David pronounced it "Five Oh Seven" at the seminar where I heard it.  
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Michael Aarvold
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J.J. Blair

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Re: New Bock '5-Zero-7' Microphone
« Reply #31 on: October 20, 2009, 11:16:06 PM »

I found the mic to have more low end than a 47.  Much beefier in the bottom.
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They say the heart of Rock & Roll is still beating, which is amazing if you consider all the blow it's done over the years.

"The Internet enables pompous blowhards to interact with other pompous blowhards in a big circle jerk of pomposity." - Bill Maher

"The negative aspects of this business, not only will continue to prevail, but will continue to accelerate in madness. Conditions aren't going to get better, because the economics of rock and roll are getting closer and closer to the economics of Big Business America." - Bill Graham

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Re: New Bock 5-Zero-7 mic...
« Reply #32 on: October 21, 2009, 11:08:23 AM »

kats wrote on Tue, 20 October 2009 09:57

 Perfect for those who cannot make a decision regarding anything in their life!


Anybody have Brett Favre's number?  Rolling Eyes

It is officially the 5-ZERO-7 (not "O") because the zero references the shape of the capsule.
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