R/E/P Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 7   Go Down

Author Topic: What Makes People Vote Republican?  (Read 12001 times)

cerberus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2651
What Makes People Vote Republican?
« on: September 13, 2008, 01:49:35 PM »

what makes people vote republican?

here is a fascinating new essay on the topic:
http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/haidt08/haidt08_index.html

here are some considered responses:
http://www.edge.org/discourse/vote_morality.html

i think this is a serious, scholarly work. it draws heavily on
scientific research. please allot some time for reading
and contemplation; it could be enlightening.

jeff dinces

Steve Hudson

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1013
Re: What Makes People Vote Republican?
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2008, 02:25:17 PM »

"I believe it is because, having stated a position, based on either their own family values or those dictated by their religion, [Republicans] are loathe to change their minds and declare that they have been wrong. And so, following Festinger, the disconfirming evidence causes them (or at least many of them) to dig in their heels more deeply."

Word.
Logged
"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs.  There's also a negative side."

- Hunter S. Thompson should have said this, but didn't

http://www.myspace.com/steventoddhudson

PookyNMR

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1991
Re: What Makes People Vote Republican?
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2008, 02:44:21 PM »

While there are some things in there that I can agree with, there are many points that I strongly disagree with, in particular his piss poor interpretation of the Biblical message.  He's a psychologist, not a theologian and fails to forget that at many points.  PhD does not mean expert in everything.  So my BS detectors were sounding the alarm several times.

Aside from that complaint, I find the entire paper highly activistic and in general disagreeable with a number of it's overall tone and many of it's assumptions.  And I'm even a person who is thoroughly repulsed by the Republican administration.

I'd give it a 3 out of 10 in generous mood.
Logged
Nathan Rousu

cerberus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2651
Re: What Makes People Vote Republican?
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2008, 02:50:36 PM »

nathan, i respect you and your point of view. imo,  it would be worth
your time to formuate a full rebuttal of haight and his supporters.

at the moment, i intend to send the links directly to all of my friends;
and to urge them to send it to all of their friends; and so on.

please feel welcome to try and convince me not to spread what
i presently regard as fruit from the tree of knowledge.

your emotional reaction was not my intention in posting
the links. i sincerely regret that this has upset you.

jeff dinces

PookyNMR

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1991
Re: What Makes People Vote Republican?
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2008, 03:52:56 PM »

Jeff -

No worries.  I'm not at all upset in the least.

My point was, in particular, his theological arguments were incredibly poor, inaccurate, and ignorant in the sense the they obviously did not engage a scholarly process.  Or (hopefully not) he was aware, but just was not honest in disclosing such arguments for the sake of his activism.  

For anyone who has not studied such matters, it would not be obvious and it would be easy to acquiesce to his view point.  But for anyone who has studied the subject, it's very easy to see that his arguments have no basis in legitimate history, theology, exegesis, and other scholarly processes.

The instructions in Leviticus were not written because 'the writers found the behaviours disgusting.'  Within the book itself you'll see that the various instructions were believed to be from God himself.  AND those instructions were given with specific reasons.  They were given, as it says in the text itself, so that the people could have life, quality life of justice (as in righteousness / right-relatedness) and peace, so they would not get the diseases of the other neighboring nations due to their behavior.  Other instructions in the Torah also carry the same concept --> God trying to bless his people by offering them a way to peaceful, righteous life.  He  shows them the way saying that before you is the choice to chose life or death, chose life (second half of Deut 30 for example).

If I had more time, I'd make out a more detailed argument, but for now, I think even those thoughts can adequately display the incredible differences between what the text is communicating and what this Physiologist is trying to twist the text into for his own conclusions / opinions.

Aside from the theological arguments, I find a number of his other assumptions that he uses his evidence to back up far to over-reaching.  If I have time later, I'll expand..
Logged
Nathan Rousu

Larrchild

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3972
Re: What Makes People Vote Republican?
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2008, 03:56:41 PM »

Steve Hudson wrote on Sat, 13 September 2008 14:25

"I believe it is because, having stated a position, based on either their own family values or those dictated by their religion, [Republicans] are loathe to change their minds and declare that they have been wrong. And so, following Festinger, the disconfirming evidence causes them (or at least many of them) to dig in their heels more deeply."

Word.


That makes me wonder if that sea of white faces that was the GOP convention, who seemed to be digging their heels in even further against the liberal-devils, really know deep down inside, how badly mangled their team has made things?
Pride is a bitch, eh?
Logged
Larry Janus
http://2ubes.net

Jay Kadis

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2165
Re: What Makes People Vote Republican?
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2008, 04:08:28 PM »

My BS detectors are set off any time I see an attempt to make a scientific analysis of religion.  Religion is entirely an arbitrary human invention and as such is outside the realm in which science may function.

Steve Hudson

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1013
Re: What Makes People Vote Republican?
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2008, 04:10:47 PM »

Larrchild wrote on Sat, 13 September 2008 14:56

Steve Hudson wrote on Sat, 13 September 2008 14:25

"I believe it is because, having stated a position, based on either their own family values or those dictated by their religion, [Republicans] are loathe to change their minds and declare that they have been wrong. And so, following Festinger, the disconfirming evidence causes them (or at least many of them) to dig in their heels more deeply."

Word.


That makes me wonder if that sea of white faces that was the GOP convention, who seemed to be digging their heels in even further against the liberal-devils, really know deep down inside, how badly mangled their team has made things?
Pride is a bitch, eh?


Festinger's theory of cognitive dissonance suggests you're right. I think many Republicans, in this example, balance their negative feelings about taking selfish moral positions, telling lies, etc. with a stronger need to feel like they "belong" to a group that shares their views. It's hard for many people to admit they're wrong and even harder for some to change when they realize their views and behaviors are morally corrupt.
Logged
"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs.  There's also a negative side."

- Hunter S. Thompson should have said this, but didn't

http://www.myspace.com/steventoddhudson

Larrchild

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3972
Re: What Makes People Vote Republican?
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2008, 04:17:23 PM »

Quote:

It's hard for many people to admit they're wrong and even harder for some to change when they realize their views and behaviors are morally corrupt.

I think that if you can convince yourself that God is a Republican, the rest just breezes by, cognitively, lol.

In other words, if you believe you are on the side of good, morally, it immunizes you against the self-scrutiny needed for objectivity.
Logged
Larry Janus
http://2ubes.net

danickstr

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3641
Re: What Makes People Vote Republican?
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2008, 04:27:39 PM »

Logged
Nick Dellos - MCPE  

Food for thought for the future:              http://http://www.kurzweilai.net/" target="_blank">http://www.kurzweilai.net/www.physorg.com

Devin Knutson

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 838
Re: What Makes People Vote Republican?
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2008, 05:03:56 PM »

Jay Kadis wrote on Sat, 13 September 2008 13:08

My BS detectors are set off any time I see an attempt to make a scientific analysis of religion.  Religion is entirely an arbitrary human invention and as such is outside the realm in which science may function.


I tend to disagree somewhat that "Religion is entirely an arbitrary human invention".  In my view, religion probably stems from our original ability to reason inductively, which was an early survival trait.

Mog went to the water hole at noon.
Mog got ate by lions.
Don't go to the water hole at noon.

From there, as our species became aware of our own mortality, (I don't think it can be a coincidence that most major religions were founded in deserts) certain persons who were perhaps a bit quicker on the uptake realized the control potential of organizing a common Belief structure, and "don't go to the water hole at noon" becomes "Thou shalt not take sustenance during the mid-day fast".

In the end, all traditions are sets of solutions for which we no longer remember the problems.

These days of course, our prehensile predilection for inductive reasoning does more harm than good, and should be eradicated through education and critical thought.

And yes, the world would be a much nicer place if religion and science kept to their own sides of the issues.  Particularly if religion would stop attempting to make physical statements about the universe in which we live.

Belief is a disease.
Get over it.
Logged
SpongeBob, reel it in, quick! Can't you hear the music?
That's a 4/4 string ostinato in D-minor!
Every sailor knows it means death!
    - Mr. Eugene H. Krabbs

Larrchild

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3972
Re: What Makes People Vote Republican?
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2008, 05:06:03 PM »

So we're just chimps with driver's licenses, if I get you, correctly?

With obsolete bios.
Logged
Larry Janus
http://2ubes.net

Devin Knutson

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 838
Re: What Makes People Vote Republican?
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2008, 05:09:42 PM »

Larrchild wrote on Sat, 13 September 2008 13:17


In other words, if you believe you are on the side of good, morally, it immunizes you against the self-scrutiny needed for objectivity.


Religion became organized for precisely this purpose.  With God on our side, how can we fail?

There has been tons of research showing that people of truly substandard intelligence completely lack the necessary wiring in the brain to make the connection between their own actions and the results.  Stupid people are physically incapable of realizing their own stupidity.

And they vote more.

And they breed more.

We're fucked.
Logged
SpongeBob, reel it in, quick! Can't you hear the music?
That's a 4/4 string ostinato in D-minor!
Every sailor knows it means death!
    - Mr. Eugene H. Krabbs

Devin Knutson

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 838
Re: What Makes People Vote Republican?
« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2008, 05:13:33 PM »

Larrchild wrote on Sat, 13 September 2008 14:06

So we're just chimps with driver's licenses, if I get you, correctly?

With obsolete bios.



I don't drive.

But my bio is pretty obsolete, yes.
Logged
SpongeBob, reel it in, quick! Can't you hear the music?
That's a 4/4 string ostinato in D-minor!
Every sailor knows it means death!
    - Mr. Eugene H. Krabbs

Larrchild

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3972
Re: What Makes People Vote Republican?
« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2008, 05:24:45 PM »

Devin Knutson wrote on Sat, 13 September 2008 17:09

Larrchild wrote on Sat, 13 September 2008 13:17


In other words, if you believe you are on the side of good, morally, it immunizes you against the self-scrutiny needed for objectivity.


Religion became organized for precisely this purpose.  With God on our side, how can we fail?



Well they can't all  have God on their side.

He must be pissed.
Logged
Larry Janus
http://2ubes.net
Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 7   Go Up
 

Site Hosted By Ashdown Technologies, Inc.

Page created in 0.079 seconds with 16 queries.