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Author Topic: advice on setup  (Read 6651 times)

j.hall

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advice on setup
« on: September 08, 2008, 09:42:46 pm »

so, i'm looking in my crystal ball and seeing some current trends that aren't going away in my work.

i'm starting to track more guitars, and cut more vocals.

it also seems that i might be doing more drum tracking.

guitars and vocals are happening here in the mix room (also my house where two toddler boys run around)

so, i'm looking into the Grendel Dead Room speaker isolation cabinet for guitars.

this will allow me to cut guitars any time the client wants without waking my kids up.

any one use one?  or the randall isolation speaker?

i'm also starting to wonder if it isn't a good idea to put together a small rack (or box) to send with my clients that cut tracks on their own.

i'm thinking a good mic pre, good converter, maybe a mic.  this will ensure that i at least get a better signal path from them.

thoughts on that?

any one have experience with the sherman filter bank?  i need to explore a hardware device that can easily do the bleeps and bloops.  maybe i should just get reason?

and finally, tracking guitars here, i'm thinking about adding some guitars.

i have three tele's all with P-90s.  i probably need a les paul, or at least a gibson of some kind, and probably a P-bass.

pedals?
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marcel

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Re: advice on setup
« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2008, 01:24:56 am »

Wow...  Uh...
j.hall wrote on Mon, 08 September 2008 18:42

so, i'm looking in my crystal ball and seeing some current trends that aren't going away in my work.

i'm starting to track more guitars, and cut more vocals.

it also seems that i might be doing more drum tracking.

guitars and vocals are happening here in the mix room (also my house where two toddler boys run around)

so, i'm looking into the Grendel Dead Room speaker isolation cabinet for guitars.

this will allow me to cut guitars any time the client wants without waking my kids up.

any one use one?  or the randall isolation speaker?
Get a few sheets of 3/4" plywood, some kiln-dried 2x4s, some wood screws, some surplus carpeting, some heavy duty gate hinges, 2 ton casters...

Build a box with 2x4 walls/floor/ceiling, plywood screwed and glued to both sides.  Fill the wall cavities with silica sand.  Hinge one side.  Carpet the interior.  It'll be heavy as s**t (like 1500lb - no second floor locations!) but it'll isolate like nobody's business.  Doubles as a safe.  If you want, I can draw you some plans...  (Seriously)
Quote:

i'm also starting to wonder if it isn't a good idea to put together a small rack (or box) to send with my clients that cut tracks on their own.

i'm thinking a good mic pre, good converter, maybe a mic.  this will ensure that i at least get a better signal path from them.

thoughts on that?
API A2D?  421/SM-7/414 as needed?
Quote:

any one have experience with the sherman filter bank?  i need to explore a hardware device that can easily do the bleeps and bloops.  maybe i should just get reason?
Lots of experience.  Very cool, not particularly versatile.  Nord Lead 2, or the rack version with a cheap controller keyboard?  Most versatile, all-around non-synth-guy's synth, IMHO.
Quote:

and finally, tracking guitars here, i'm thinking about adding some guitars.

i have three tele's all with P-90s.  i probably need a les paul, or at least a gibson of some kind, and probably a P-bass.
Everybody will have different opinions on this.  A good LP, a good Tele, and a good 335/6120/Casino/etc. would cover a lot of ground.  Get a modern, American P or J with Lollar or Lindy Fralin aftermarket pickups and you'll probably not be disappointed.  I assume you have some amps?
Quote:

pedals?
Sure.  Lots of people have lots of pedals, I wouldn't worry.  You probably have more than you know, if you put them all together in a pile.

I think I just spent a whole bunch of your money.

Hope that's what you wanted.  Other than the API (I have their pre's and Apogee converters), I regularly use all these things and they serve me well.
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Best, Marcel

SingSing

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Re: advice on setup
« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2008, 02:36:30 am »

Hi Jason,
I have one of the quad modular filterbanks (4 x sherman in a big box basically) and I think it does a wonderful sound mangling job. I disagree a bit with the previous poster that it lacks versatility (at least compared to other filters). It has a very unique and recognizable sound, still I never get tired of twisting those knobs.

Perhaps looking into a small modular would do the trick? Kind of like Frusciante? I think there's a rather nice article about it in TapeOp a couple of months back.

Take care,

Stefan
SingSing
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NelsonL

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Re: advice on setup
« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2008, 04:00:06 am »

Hey J,

Reason is really useful and could certainly take care of electronic sounds. While perhaps  not "the best" at anything, it's very versatile and can do a great many useful things in a pinch (click tracks that don't annoy, passable keys and synths, loops etc.)

I'd agree that the API A2D looks really appealing at that price point, my attempts to rent one never worked out so I haven't used it yet.

Before I left I was really enjoying the Heil PR-30 and the Chandler TG-2 on heavy guitars, although not always together per se.

As for the Grendel, I presume it will make everything sound like SDRE.
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grantis

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Re: advice on setup
« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2008, 06:16:27 am »

NelsonL wrote on Tue, 09 September 2008 03:00


Reason is really useful and could certainly take care of electronic sounds. While perhaps  not "the best" at anything, it's very versatile and can do a great many useful things in a pinch (click tracks that don't annoy, passable keys and synths, loops etc.)


Yes, the sounds that come with Reason are passable.

But when you start getting into extra ReFills, the sounds become REALLY good.  I own the piano refill and it sounds fantastic, FAR better than the piano sounds that came with it.

come on J, REASON!!!!
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Grant Craig
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NelsonL

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Re: advice on setup
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2008, 07:27:01 am »

grant richard wrote on Tue, 09 September 2008 03:16

NelsonL wrote on Tue, 09 September 2008 03:00


Reason is really useful and could certainly take care of electronic sounds. While perhaps  not "the best" at anything, it's very versatile and can do a great many useful things in a pinch (click tracks that don't annoy, passable keys and synths, loops etc.)


Yes, the sounds that come with Reason are passable.

But when you start getting into extra ReFills, the sounds become REALLY good.  I own the piano refill and it sounds fantastic, FAR better than the piano sounds that came with it.

come on J, REASON!!!!


Yes, the Piano refill is pretty great. I still think the stock piano is better than the onboard sounds in at least 75% of the junk people show up to sessions with though. I think I may have a crappy keyboard hex on me.
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Fibes

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Re: advice on setup
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2008, 09:26:02 am »

J.

Those boxes don't do it for me, too limiting and (this is a BIG statement)most times I'd rather use a good simulation.

Yeah, I said it, here are my .02:

1. Track the guitars with "Eleven" while maintaining a re-ampable channel and re-amp when the time is right if the tones aren't. This re-amping can be done at home or elsewhere with a "kit."

2. Create a kit, but you go with it. Lap top, small interface, couple pre-amps, cabling, packing blankets and mics. By doing this you will still be able to get rooms in your sound which IMO are paramount to great guitar sounds.

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iCombs

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Re: advice on setup
« Reply #7 on: September 10, 2008, 02:47:11 am »

Fibes has the best idea yet.

Get the performances whenever...reamp and get the tones when it's convenient.

I've actually been doing TONS of direct guitars lately (as part of my songwriting/demo process) and there are definitely times I know I should just save the takes that I got and reamp them for the mix.

As a matter of fact...if I get a chance...I'm gonna give that a shot this week...
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Ian Combs
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rankus

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Re: advice on setup
« Reply #8 on: September 10, 2008, 01:46:25 pm »

Yes, tracking and re-amping are one of our MO's over here due to noise from our rehearsal studio... we can track when it's noisy and re-amp when it's quiet.

For studio Guitars I would definitely start with a Les Paul and a Strat.  Sell one or two of those Tele's and add these two.  They are the staple of rock... but you already know that.

After that I would add a Tele (you already have) and then a Gibson ES335 ... with these 4 guits you can cover almost any style/tone

(This is what is hanging on the wall over here) (along with about ten others than never get used...)



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Rick Welin - Clark Drive Studios http://www.myspace.com/clarkdrivestudios

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imdrecordings

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Re: advice on setup
« Reply #9 on: September 10, 2008, 02:00:48 pm »

I'm thinking of selling my UA LA-610 and getting an API-A2D.
That A2D sounds killer and is WAAaaaYY usable !

I second the VSTi with a good reamp.
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iCombs

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Re: advice on setup
« Reply #10 on: September 10, 2008, 02:11:54 pm »

So...I rigged a reamp box with some gender benders and a direct box.  Played with the output off the computer...set up an RE-20 in front of my Cornford...and this may be the best idea ever.

Also...as an interesting additional feature to this technique...with the lack of compression on the direct guitars, you get big transients that make editing easier...and actually can facilitate drum-styled gridding if you've got a particularly heinous guitarist.  Not to mention the processing options you get pre-amplifier...you can use your outboard EQ's if there's something in the guitar tone you don't dig, you can scoop it out before the amp and change the way the amp reacts to the guitar.

Yep...this is NEAT.

J...bud...this seriously is your best option.  The options it gives you are so friggin' stellar that there's no reason not to.
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Ian Combs
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rankus

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Re: advice on setup
« Reply #11 on: September 10, 2008, 06:20:49 pm »



Yes yes.  The Re-Amping scenario allows you to use the EQ's on the amp(s) instead of the mixer/daw while mixing.  

If I can, I will leave the re-amp until mix time and use mic changes, amp eq, stomp boxes etc instead of plugs.

I have always done this with bass gtr as well. I can avoid using an amp while tracking and not have to worry about leakage etc.  

Also makes sessions go a lot faster for bass when all there is to do is set up a DI box and hit the red button.

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Rick Welin - Clark Drive Studios http://www.myspace.com/clarkdrivestudios

Ive done stuff I'm not proud of.. and the stuff I am proud of is disgusting ~ Moe Sizlack

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NelsonL

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Re: advice on setup
« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2008, 02:07:36 am »

What good is the re-amp if he still doesn't have a soundproofed space to record in?

I've taken homestudio m-box DI'd guitars and reamped them to great effect at the studio-- I'm not knocking. You just need a space for that or it's back to the speaker in a box concept.

Uroboros.
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iCombs

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Re: advice on setup
« Reply #13 on: September 11, 2008, 10:01:30 am »

he didn't say he didn't have space...he said he didn't want to keep his kids up at night.

And, to be totally honest, close-miced guitar amps sound pretty good in just about any room so long as it doesn't have some sort of GLARING acoustic issue.  I've done killer guitars in VO booths.

but it sounded like j.'s issue wasn't one of space, but rather time.  anyone feel free to correct me on this if i've misread something.
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Ian Combs
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NelsonL

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Re: advice on setup
« Reply #14 on: September 11, 2008, 12:09:20 pm »

That's true--

Clearly it gives you control over when you print the tracks. So if sleeping babies are the only problem then there ya go.

From other conversations I'd gathered that space is an issue, but maybe my memory is faulty.

I'd have a hard time selling the amp sim in my world-- but that's another conversation.
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