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Author Topic: I'm Voting McCain  (Read 10786 times)

C.O. Jones

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Re: I'm Voting McCain
« Reply #60 on: September 05, 2008, 11:01:45 am »

mgod wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 09:15

grant richard wrote on Thu, 04 September 2008 21:56

mgod wrote on Thu, 04 September 2008 23:47

 Handouts are required for salvation.

DS

You have a distorted view of salvation.

Faith is required for salvation. Period.

And true faith, to be a christian, is also a matter of deeds, not words. And unless one is a true christian, no salvation is offered. Time to get to work.

DS


Time for Barack Obama to get to work too:

excerp

John McCain gave 19 percent of his adjusted gross income to charity, while Barack Obama gave 6 percent.

The choice of charities by John McCain appear to be "color blind" while Barack Obama's gave 25 percent of his donation to the Congressional Black Caucus and one third of his charitable donations to that church in Chicago we all know so well.

Who's the bad example? Look up the facts.


From here:

http://www.mcall.com/news/opinion/letters/all-becker.6548874 aug18,0,1794872.story


I don't have the numbers handy, but the amount of money given annually in charity by Faith based groups is truly stupefying.   Christ did not ask anyone to codify charity into political doctrine and have it run by The State either.  He was in fact rather anti-State from what I've read.

This is my problem with the State-run approach to charity:  Bureaucrats that run programs always become entrenched, eventually caring more about self-preservation than anything else, and consume way too much of the assets.

That, and you really can't get people out of situations that caused their poverty in the first place unless you couple the largess with programs that help people break destructive habits.  Government just isn't very good at that.


I see a lot of people who have comfortable homes, an automobile or two, a bunch of nice electronic toys, maybe some pricey musical instruments and a cool Harley too, that just want "The Government" i.e. somebody else to pay for their parent's elder-care, their kid's college, and their doctor bills.  I suspect this is not the kind of "charity" that  Christ had in mind.

Jones
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mgod

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Re: I'm Voting McCain
« Reply #61 on: September 05, 2008, 11:11:18 am »

No facts there at that link, just opinion.

But I don't have a problem with either of these guys or their charitable giving, although if we saw their tax records, my bet is that Mr. And Mrs McCain make waaaaay more then Mr. And Mrs. Obama and have much more to give away and benefit far more from giving it away  at the end of their tax return. Works just like that for me too. But, if you were responding to me, as it seemed you were, I made no mention of government care in the context of faith.

I like that neither of these guy is campaigning on their faith, or if they are, its minimal and about equal.

DS
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Jay Kadis

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Re: I'm Voting McCain
« Reply #62 on: September 05, 2008, 11:15:37 am »

C.O. Jones wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 08:01


This is my problem with the State-run approach to charity:  Bureaucrats that run programs always become entrenched, eventually caring more about self-preservation than anything else, and consume way too much of the assets.

Jones

It's not just the state-run charities that have this problem.  By far most of the non-governmental charities do a relatively poor job of allocating the money as well.  The American Institute of Philanthropy rates charities for efficiency and other relevant characteristics and many mainstream charities do poorly.

http://www.charitywatch.org/

C.O. Jones

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Re: I'm Voting McCain
« Reply #63 on: September 05, 2008, 11:19:09 am »

Jay Kadis wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 10:15

C.O. Jones wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 08:01


This is my problem with the State-run approach to charity:  Bureaucrats that run programs always become entrenched, eventually caring more about self-preservation than anything else, and consume way too much of the assets.

Jones

It's not just the state-run charities that have this problem.  By far most of the non-governmental charities do a relatively poor job of allocating the money as well.  The American Institute of Philanthropy rates charities for efficiency and other relevant characteristics and many mainstream charities do poorly.

http://www.charitywatch.org/



You are absolutely correct.  The more distance from those being served, the more mission creep you tend to see.

Jones
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grantis

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Re: I'm Voting McCain
« Reply #64 on: September 05, 2008, 11:36:09 am »

Still waiting on that answer.

At what point do democrats become "the man"?
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PRobb

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Re: I'm Voting McCain
« Reply #65 on: September 05, 2008, 11:40:25 am »

grant richard wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 03:11

Barry Hufker wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 02:00

You guys do realize Grant is just baiting you, right?



Call me a liar, but I'm not baiting anybody.

I'm asking legitimate questions as I know little about the candidates except for the two issues I mentioned before.

Come on guys...now's your chance to get another democratic vote.  Make it happen!

You started this. There is really one question and you seem very reluctant to answer it.
Why?
So far all we've heard is abortion. Is that it?
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PRobb

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Re: I'm Voting McCain
« Reply #66 on: September 05, 2008, 11:43:32 am »

John Ivan wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 01:26

grant richard wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 00:28

"War is bad, now give me a hand-out!!"

Guys, I started this thread out of sheer curiosity to see who would reply negatively.

I figured since nobody in the saloon talks about anything BUT politics, I'd get an idea where some folks REALLY stand.



A couple things. I don't believe for a moment that you didn't already know where most of us stand on who we are voting for.

Now, the other thing.. If you really believe that the Democratic platform is simply "War is bad, now give me a hand out", then you are a backwards, illiterate dumby..

Look, there is NOT ROOM for you in the national debate if you are going to be using this kind of one line republican rove shit. Really. The country is sick of it..

This shallow thinking is THE REASON our kids are coming home in bags, smart guy. You will not slogan your way into the White House this time. Sorry.

"Tax and spend Liberal"- Republicans don't tax? You don't spend? Really?

"You don't love our country"- What, republicans love our country more? Really?

"The Republican party is the party of Family values"- I have a family. We already have a set of values, thank you very much. We do not get our value system from a political party. Maybe you do, but we don't . We are the "DEMOCRATIC PARTY". See?

"You guys don't support our troops" Non sense. More than non sense. It's a lie you people repeat on purpose because you don't want to talk about the fact that Iraq was the biggest mistake we've made, maybe ever {we'll see}.. There are democrats serving and dieing right now! My dad was in the U'S. Air Force.

Where I stand is very firm ground. From a policy stand point the republican party barely exists at all. Bush has vetoed thousands of pages of things he doesn't understand and the guy you are running now can't run a damn cash register. As for deciding when where and how to use force, this white house may have in fact broken the Law.

War is bad. It's a pretty serious thing to most of us, but not all of us, obviously.

EDIT: I thought I would ad that many who cry "Murder" about abortion have no problem sending 18 and 19 year old Americans to bleed to death in a country that had nothing to do with 911. This is just plain sick. You can MOVE INTO a church if you want to, and hold a Bible in your hands for the rest of your life but for those who believe in this whole heaven thing, I doubt you'll be able to get by the big guy with this one. Talk about yer' "Values".. It's some pretty sick shit man.......

There. Ya know where I stand now?

Why did you start this thread again?

Ivan.......................



Amen, brother.
Usually I wouldn't quote such a long post but this one bears repeating. Very well put, sir.

When fascism comes to America it will be waving a flag and carrying a Bible.
-Sinclair Lewis.
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Jessica A. Engle

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Re: I'm Voting McCain
« Reply #67 on: September 05, 2008, 11:44:16 am »

grant richard wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 02:11


I'm asking legitimate questions as I know little about the candidates except for the two issues I mentioned before.




Will you please remind us what those questions were?   And I'm not being insincere.

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el duderino

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Re: I'm Voting McCain
« Reply #68 on: September 05, 2008, 11:53:27 am »

mccain is quite old and while im sure some will say he's fine i dont know how much i agree with that.

there are articles about probable mortality (here's one http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20080903/pl_politico/13096http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20080903/pl_politico/13096  )
and of coarse they are never specific to an individual, but based on statistics, a person mccains age is 10 times more likely to die within four years than a person obama's age. and this doesnt even factor in mccains bouts with skin cancer.

plus, even if he stays alive....how will his mind be? wasnt reagan supposedly dealing with alzheimers in his second term? he had bush to run things, someone i dont agree with but at least he had plenty of experience. palin? that just frightens me.

at the same time tho, there are nutball white supremecy groups that support obama because they think a black president will help their cause. id imagine he'd have a constant threat from those whackos.

people dont vote based on VP, but part of me thinks its a bit more important this election due to age and racism.

hows that for avoiding the actual issues? Laughing
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mgod

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Re: I'm Voting McCain
« Reply #69 on: September 05, 2008, 12:32:30 pm »

el duderino wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 08:53


plus, even if he stays alive....how will his mind be? wasnt reagan supposedly dealing with alzheimers in his second term? he had bush to run things, someone i dont agree with but at least he had plenty of experience. palin? that just frightens me.
Reagan had alzheimers from the start. He was doing delusional things in public during his first year in office.

DS
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Andy Peters

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Re: I'm Voting McCain
« Reply #70 on: September 05, 2008, 12:44:59 pm »

grant richard wrote on Thu, 04 September 2008 21:20

J.J. Blair wrote on Thu, 04 September 2008 22:48

Depends.  Do you think that evolution is just a theory?  Do you think the world is 6,000 years old?



Yes, No


Of course evolution is "just a theory." Gravity, too, is "just a theory."

But obviously you have no idea what the word "theory" actually means in a scientific context.

And that right there is an example of how our country's education system is FAILING its students.

-a
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Andy Peters

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Re: I'm Voting McCain
« Reply #71 on: September 05, 2008, 01:03:52 pm »

grant richard wrote on Thu, 04 September 2008 23:37

I find it interesting that nobody has commented on McCain's extra-marital affair.


I will comment on it (as a "McCain constituent" by virtue of geography, not because I ever voted for the guy):

Why is it that extra-marital affairs tend to pretty much destroy the careers (and quickly, I might add) of Democrats -- Edwards is the latest, but of course Spitzer and McGreevey are good recent examples.

But look at how many family values (their term!) Republicans have had affairs and somehow manage to stay in office: Vitters, Craig, Henry Hyde, McCain of course, Gingrich, Guiliani, it goes on.

And it's not that I particularly care whether someone has had an extramarital affair (and I don't say that lightly, as my first marriage ended because my wife had an affair (and frankly, I'm better off now, but I digress)).

What matters to me is that the Republicans all pretend to champion these so-called "Family Values," yet they turn out to be utter hypocrites.

It is NOT the action ... it is the HYPOCRISY regarding the action.

(Which is simply a paraphrase of "It's not the crime, it's the cover-up.")

And, anyways: McCain is a full-on hypocrite. He pretends to be a "maverick" yet loves him some Bush policy. He was ACTUALLY tortured, and should therefore be out front ensuring that our country's policies explicitly forbid (and prosecute claims of!) torture, yet he signs on with Bush's torture regime. He says that he wants to fight the "Special Interests,"  yet the only special interests he's against are those that don't support the neocon agenda.

And it goes on.

He's a douchebag. Plain and simple. Voting for him means that you think that the country is Just Swell and nothing is wrong.

-a
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PRobb

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Re: I'm Voting McCain
« Reply #72 on: September 05, 2008, 01:05:32 pm »

Andy Peters wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 12:44

grant richard wrote on Thu, 04 September 2008 21:20

J.J. Blair wrote on Thu, 04 September 2008 22:48

Depends.  Do you think that evolution is just a theory?  Do you think the world is 6,000 years old?



Yes, No


Of course evolution is "just a theory." Gravity, too, is "just a theory."

But obviously you have no idea what the word "theory" actually means in a scientific context.

And that right there is an example of how our country's education system is FAILING its students.

-a

The "just a theory" thing drives me nuts. It shows how desperately we need science education in this country.

And to be technical, Natural Selection is the theory that explains the fact of evolution.
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Berolzheimer

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Re: I'm Voting McCain
« Reply #73 on: September 05, 2008, 01:14:39 pm »

I'm going to jump in here with a perspective, I have to admit I haven't read the last few pages of this thread so I hope I'm not completely out of context.

All of us who consider ourselves "pro-life", and I think that's all of us including those of us who are pro-choice, should ask ourselves, between the 2 candidates, who has caused more deaths?

I'm not aware of Obama causing any.

McCain on the other hand flew 26 missions in Vietnam, bombing civilians.  It's not out of line to assume that a few dozen people died in each run.  He was bombing a town when he was shot down.  No wonder those people were pissed when they pulled him out of that lake, he was killing their families.

And then he supported, and still supports, the Iraq war, which has killed possibly over a million Iraqi civilians.  And which Obama spoke out against.

And to those who speak of McCain being a hero, fighting for our country, remember again that it's the Vietnam war we're talking about.  This was not an honorable conflict.  Vietnam posed no threat to us. The true heroes of the Vietnam war were the conscientious  objectors who refused to go fight in an unjust and unnecessary war.

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mgod

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Re: I'm Voting McCain
« Reply #74 on: September 05, 2008, 01:15:01 pm »

grant richard wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 08:36


At what point do democrats become "the man"?

Ask him:

index.php/fa/9858/0/

DS
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