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[jwhmca]

Hello all,

First I would like to thank you all for the wealth of information!

Here is my situation/story/problem...

I am the resident head tech at a relatively "new" studio. We have an SSL 4000 G series, 80 channels. I'm in the process of bringing this 20 year old behemoth back to life. I recently finished recapping all 80 channels... ( yes, full recap on all 80... God bless the sc-7000z)

The center section has been recapped to some degree (Bruce@deskDoctor), before I came on the scene.

My area of expertise, before I was gifted with said opportunity, was T.V. Repair... Don't laugh! Well maybe just a little... Long story (family business.) As I worked through the many dead channels, broken EQ's, toasted compressors, busted VCA cards, No Cut, No Solo, Wigged out Plasmas, Fried Faders... I could go on and on... I began to realize... This design has Huge room for improvement!

Now that all 80 channels are alive and mostly well...( What the heck do you do with all those Diseased Pots&Switches???)

I'm left wondering... Mods? Caps to Bypass? Opamps? Caps to upgrade or remove? Has anyone gone through the extensive "Alignment protocol"? Has it helped?

Any ways... All thoughts and ideas would be greatly appreciated!

[amorris]

The last studio I worked pulled out all the preamps and put transformer balanced pres, reworked the power on the motherboards,.....BIG JOB. John Musgrave. Dont know if he'd spill the beans.

[ssltech]

SSL Plasmas... -hate them. -Pretty when they work, but UGLY when they don't.

Switches: throw them away or send them to China for recycling into firelighters or iPhones.

Pots shouldn't be too bad. -If you think that SSL clarostat pots are failure-prone, just WAIT until you have the "pleasure" of working on a Neve V-series!!!

Mods: I used to manufacture and sell replacement EQ boards, (AAD) Leif Mases made an another alternative EQ board (Maselec). Alan Smart makes a couple of retrofit boards; input & group Amplifier, I think, (Smart Research).

Notice how none of us became wealthy enough to buy small private islands from selling this stuff: That's because no matter HOW many boards you retrofit, there are SO MANY inter-board connections that the sound is compromised dramatically, and that's where a lot of that "SSL E/G-series sound" (which they worked so hard to shake off with the 9000 series) comes in. In the 9000 they eliminated almost ALL of the inter-bard connections, and hard-soldered EVERYTHING that they possibly could. -it made a COLOSSAL difference.

So the E and the G-series are both VERY easy to service (again, if you think they're in any way difficult to work on... ask a Neve tech!) but have compromised sonics... and -unless you REALLY start re-designing and re-building and hard-soldering almost EVERYTHING... you'll never shake it off.

The best way to dramatically change the sound is to buy a different console.

-But overall I do love them to work on. -The alternatives are sometimes horrific!

Keith

[Geoff Doane]

We're just coming to the end of a month long refurbishing of a 4000 G+.  We replaced all the 6PDT switches on the EQ and dynamics switch cards, and some of the DPDT switches on the main boards that were suffering (ran out of switches, but things are much better now).

The other really weak part of the console was the AUX send mute switches on the back of the pots.  Since no one actually used that function in the middle of a mix, I just bypassed them (moved wires on the back of the switch).  As Keith said, the pots themselves seem to be fine.  I did find one though where the wiper of the TR deck shorted to the chassis when it was turned fully ccw.  THAT made the logic go berserk!  

The G+ also can send the Stereo Cue to either the stereo cue buss or extra groups 25-32.  Now the switch is out of the circuit, and both are fed at the same time.

We also bypassed all the similar switches in the center section for the AUX and extra group masters.

I replaced all the SOLO lamps with LEDs about a year ago, and all the CUT lamps will be next.

GTD

[ssltech]

The AUX MUTE switches... -if they're the black/very dark brown Schadow type, they can be brought back to life for a few years by using a PCB component-leg hole type drill and spraying Miller $ Stephenson's "Contact Renu & lube" in the hole. -They stop doing the "fuzz-crackle-Bzzzzt" noise, and work smoothly for several years. -A handy tip indeed!

Keith

[guy_4]

Hi Keith,

I share your opinion on SSL " mods" , and agree 100% on these two sentences :

"So the E and the G-series are both VERY easy to service (again, if you think they're in any way difficult to work on... ask a Neve tech!) "

"But overall I do love them to work on. -The alternatives are sometimes horrific! "

I prefer to fix 10 SSL than 1 Neve ! ( in fact I refuse any work on a Neve )
Thanks for the tip for restoration of the AUX MUTE switches.
Do you have the reference of this Miller +Stephenson cleaning product ?
Best,
Guy

PS : how was France this summer ?

[guy_4]

Hi Geoff,

"I replaced all the SOLO lamps with LEDs about a year ago, and all the CUT lamps will be next."

What type of LED do you use ?  ( brand/model/dealer )

Best,
Guy

[Dave Hecht]

Keith pretty much nailed it. Couple of things to add. I've seen a few mods to the main mix amps, mostly Burr Brown chip upgrades (OPA2134 or OPA604 as I recall). Nothing spectacular - made a slight difference. Could be done fairly inexpensively if you want to try it.

The most common switch failure I've had is the bus assign switches. Back in the days when SSL supported the E/G series, I'd just swap the cards out. Now,I've started replacing the individual switches. If you've got the later type cards, the switches are individual - the older cards need all 4 replaced. Digikey carries a switch that fits for around $1/ea, so pretty worthwhile to keep the old cards working. Last time I had to find NOS cards for a client they were $42/ea

Dave Hecht

[ssltech]

guy_4 wrote

how was France this summer ?

Sadly, it was quite wet most of the time that I was there.

Spent most of the time in a hotel room (NICE location, between Rue de Rivoli and Rue St. Honor

[Jim Williams]

The largest improvement I have heard is on the master mix card. Replace the National LM394 transistor pair with an AD MAT-02. The 5534 opamp needs to go, I had great results with a National LM6171 at 3600v/us slew rate and 100 mhz gain bandwidth. The Roederstein bipolar caps are too soft sounding, replace with low impedance polarized caps once you determine the correct polatity via measuring offsets first. If you replace the 5534's with LME49710's you can sometimes remove the output coupling cap as the offsets are very low. That also applies to the 5532's, use either LME49720 or LME49860.
The quad tlo74 opamps on the monitor card should also go, use either a Linear Tech LT1359 or a National LME49740. Increase the size of the output coupling caps, especially the small 10 uf Roederstein's used in front of the VCA's, that's a low end phase shifter.

[jwhmca]

Thank you all for the thoughts and ideas!

Jim, by the "Master mix card" do you mean the 4 QB cards in the center section?

Keith, I haven't replaced any of the switches yet... I just have noticed they seem to distort if not wiggled into the right position. Spraying de-ox down into them doesn't seem to help. I haven't tried drilling any holes...

Geoff,

I'm not sure what you mean by this...

"The other really weak part of the console was the AUX send mute switches on the back of the pots. Since no one actually used that function in the middle of a mix, I just bypassed them (moved wires on the back of the switch)."

[sodderboy]

The only pots that have failed for me are the filter pots.  The OFF switch element goes bad and the EQ is disabled.  I always just replaced them and never tried to open them and see what broke mechanically.
All other switches I replace after cleaning a few times.  You can never get enough of the original lube back in the switch once it is flushed.  I did two buss ultrasonic cleaning projects way back but would never do it again.  It is more time efficient to replace switches than do a 7 or 8 step procedure on switches every 2 years.

Whatever you do, get a electrolux style camelhair brush attachment, cut the inside tube down, put a 1/4" screen inside, connect it to a good canister vac, and train someone how to clean the console and equipment every week.  That is the next best thing you can do besides keeping it cool and dry.

And I agree with the modding aspect.  Your studio's business model includes an 80 input SSL.  Use it as is.
Mike
PS: the AUX switch change mentioned was to simply wire the AUX ON all the time, rather than deal with spotty switches.

[Geoff Doane]

guy_4 wrote on Fri, 29 August 2008 18:25

Hi Geoff, "I replaced all the SOLO lamps with LEDs about a year ago, and all the CUT lamps will be next." What type of LED do you use ?  ( brand/model/dealer ) Best, Guy

I guess it was more like two years ago   , but here's the last post of that thread:

http://recforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/m/206834/0/#msg_2 06834


As sodderboy noted, the AUX switch mod involved moving the wire that runs from the wiper of the AUX pot to the center terminal of the switch, to the rear terminal of the switch, effectively making the switch always "ON".  

I haven't had much luck with spray cleaners/lubricants over the long term, although I haven't tried the Miller + Stephenson stuff.  Typically things improve for a little while, and then the lubricant attracts new garbage, and things are worse than ever.  I've received some positive comments about the lighter touch of the Alps switches compared to the original Schadows.  So far, they seem to do a good job of passing audio too  

GTD

[CWHumphrey]

So many mods...

First, as I'm you've noticed, each module is riddled with 5534 op amps.  I haven't done the tech. thing for going on a decade but Dave knows chips that are drop in upgrades to the 5534...because we talked about this about 15 years ago.

Another great mod that will make your life easier in the long run is to lose the 2 stab type lamp in each VU meter.  The bulbs are a pain to replace and sometimes just intermittently turn off.  Go with LEDs.

Cheers,

[patevil]

Are there any recommended mods. for the center section of the 6000 E series?

am about to dive into a recap job for this console.  just looking for some assistance while i have her shut down.  

I am also going to do the power supply any recommendations there as well?

cheers
PF