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Author Topic: Maybe, a new record has been set!  (Read 4100 times)

Level

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Maybe, a new record has been set!
« on: June 08, 2004, 02:38:31 pm »

Firestarter by Gene Simmons comes in at a whopping +14.3VU.

Sounds like total ass...

Can we see 15!

When is the madness going to end folks....(bows head in shame)


http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0YwAjY2wh3NWxX4b6gshFY6vemkIAhQqj8eBo3*oyyVYBdXINySIYlZBhpMdN7QNnIWMNeEOWNDR71UDkdFy!bGIvo*PFKcOOsburH!OprqY8Hqrp6VdoQCWJr5b!QUt7rE8*Tm8dl4Fe5VNmee4K5A/firestarter.JPG?dc=4675475626263955356

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lowland

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Re: Maybe, a new record has been set!
« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2004, 05:13:41 am »

Not nearly hot enough - I can still see white bits...
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Nigel Palmer
Lowland Masters
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Dr. Yes

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Re: Maybe, a new record has been set!
« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2004, 01:08:01 pm »

No one deserves bad sound more that Gene Simmons.
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magicchord

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Re: Maybe, a new record has been set!
« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2004, 03:07:51 pm »

Is that louder than eleven?

index.php/fa/98/0/
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Patrick Bryant - Magicchord Music BMI

bblackwood

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Re: Maybe, a new record has been set!
« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2004, 03:10:44 pm »

Level wrote on Tue, 08 June 2004 13:38

Firestarter by Gene Simmons comes in at a whopping +14.3VU.

At what DAC calibration level?
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Brad Blackwood
euphonic masters

Level

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Re: Maybe, a new record has been set!
« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2004, 03:18:18 pm »

Brad, this was direct digital from the CD to sound forge 7.0

I honestly do not know a way to adjust the level when I open a .cda file right off the disc in sound forge. Of course, after it is opened, I can edit it..but is it possable that I have an unknown calibration level from my CD rom drive when SF 7.0 opens the file?

Clue me in, I may be missing something! Thumbs Up  

I can set all my levels to infinity and it does not affect what SF 7.0 sees from the CD. Other good quality CD's do not show absurd levels.

I can burn a CD from a file, then open the CD and the levels stay precisely the same, to a 0.01dB.
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bblackwood

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Re: Maybe, a new record has been set!
« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2004, 03:29:41 pm »

Is it telling you something like 'RMS power' or calling it 'VU'? I'm unaware of how you can digitally measure VU as it is a fixed analog reference level and 0dbfs is not.

0 VU is +4 dbm and represents a voltage level of 1.228 volts (1kHz, 600 ohms).


Unless I'm mistaken...
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Brad Blackwood
euphonic masters

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Re: Maybe, a new record has been set!
« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2004, 03:40:20 pm »

Sound forge 7.0 has VU meters in addition to peak reading.

For the VU meters, we have these settings:

Traditional VU
Logarithmic VU
Extended VU
UK PPM
EBU PPM
DIN PPM
Nordic PPM

The ballistics I used for this file were that of Traditional VU. The meters can be scaled so the actual indication over +3 will read to the right.

RMS power on the otherhand cannot exceed 0 as we all know.

I believe their are some pretty accurate plug-ins available for VU that you can install to see where your reference level lays. Typically, very hot CD's will reach as high as +8VU but never have I seen anything above 11 and this 14.3 is simply "crazy"

The VU scheme that sound forge uses may be an "approximation" of actual VU. I would like to see the code behind the readings. It may give some valuable insight as to how they are deriving the figures. I am dabbling in this code a little bit to understand the actual design nature of plug in's. I get lost pretty quick in machine code.


Quote:

0 VU is +4 dbm and represents a voltage level of 1.228 volts (1kHz, 600 ohms).



Correct. And also 0dbfs should be 0.775V
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bblackwood

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Re: Maybe, a new record has been set!
« Reply #8 on: June 09, 2004, 03:46:30 pm »

Level wrote on Wed, 09 June 2004 14:40

Sound forge 7.0 has VU meters in addition to peak reading.

I'd just like to see a reference level. +14.3VU is pointless if it's not really VU!

Quote:

Quote:

0 VU is +4 dbm and represents a voltage level of 1.228 volts (1kHz, 600 ohms).



Correct. And also 0dbfs should be 0.775V

Umm, no - 0dBm is .778V (1kHz, 600 ohms). 0dBfs is whatever you want it to be in the analog world...
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Brad Blackwood
euphonic masters

magicchord

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Re: Maybe, a new record has been set!
« Reply #9 on: June 09, 2004, 03:49:49 pm »

I think what Brad is asking is - if you use "simple synthesis" to make a 1k tone in SF that's -20dBfs, what level does the VU graph display on that same tone?
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Patrick Bryant - Magicchord Music BMI

Level

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Re: Maybe, a new record has been set!
« Reply #10 on: June 09, 2004, 03:51:03 pm »

PS:

I just opened a file I did last week of a mastering job of a song called "bottom Line" which is an up tempo R&B dance number.

To give you an idea of how this one did statistically with the metering and the statistical data, this is what I got.

BTW, I consider it very hot, it played really nice at the dance club and was plenty loud, full and had a nice balance. The DJ said, it was "pumped up real nice"

Peak Left -0.67
Peak Right -0.56
RMS Left -15.37
RMS Right -15.20
VU Left +9.4 highest reading
VU Right +9.5 highest reading
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Level

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Re: Maybe, a new record has been set!
« Reply #11 on: June 09, 2004, 03:53:20 pm »

MC, I just did one (-20 /1K) and the VU is reading -5
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bblackwood

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Re: Maybe, a new record has been set!
« Reply #12 on: June 09, 2004, 03:53:34 pm »

magicchord, thank you. That would be helpful. I know nothing about Sound Forge...

Bill, to make this actually meaningful to others, why not make a few measurements with 1kHz sine waves and various levels and tell us what they call it in VU.
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Brad Blackwood
euphonic masters

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Re: Maybe, a new record has been set!
« Reply #13 on: June 09, 2004, 03:55:40 pm »

Cool, I will pick a few..and post in a few mins
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Level

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Re: Maybe, a new record has been set!
« Reply #14 on: June 09, 2004, 04:04:03 pm »

Here they are, I am getting fast with the mouse these days..


1khz sine wave
-30 = -15vu
-25 = -10vu
-20 = -5vu
-15 = 0vu
-12 = +3vu
-10 = +5vu
-7  = +8vu
-5  = +10vu
-3  = +12vu
0   = +15VU

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