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[brett]

C.Cash wrote on Tue, 26 August 2008 18:42

Thank you Marcel, thats what I was looking for. So, I would think that a 16x16 would do me well. Thanks. OOf, maybe an 8x8, just looked at the prices. BTW, was looking at the Rosetta 8oo and the site says its for PT HD, will it work for LE?

the rosetta 800 is HD compatible when using the x-digi-hd option card from apogee. this lets it connect directly to the HD core or process card as if it were a digi interface.

the only way to connect to an 002 is via adat as I do not believe the 002 has AES ports.

[brett]

C.Cash wrote on Tue, 26 August 2008 18:42

Thank you Marcel, thats what I was looking for. So, I would think that a 16x16 would do me well. Thanks. OOf, maybe an 8x8, just looked at the prices. BTW, was looking at the Rosetta 8oo and the site says its for PT HD, will it work for LE?

the rosetta 800 is HD compatible when using the x-digi-hd option card from apogee. this lets it connect directly to the HD core or process card as if it were a digi interface.

the only way to connect to an 002 is via adat as I do not believe the 002 has AES ports.

[Steve Hudson]

brett wrote on Thu, 28 August 2008 03:04

C.Cash wrote on Tue, 26 August 2008 18:42 Thank you Marcel, thats what I was looking for. So, I would think that a 16x16 would do me well. Thanks. OOf, maybe an 8x8, just looked at the prices. BTW, was looking at the Rosetta 8oo and the site says its for PT HD, will it work for LE? the rosetta 800 is HD compatible when using the x-digi-hd option card from apogee. this lets it connect directly to the HD core or process card as if it were a digi interface. the only way to connect to an 002 is via adat as I do not believe the 002 has AES ports.

True, the 002 only has SPDIF and ADAT Lightpipe digital I/O, both limited to 44/16 or 48/16 operation. But at least you'll get much improved conversion with the Apogee.

[marcel]

Does the 002 accept a BNC wordclock signal?  I'd be leery of using ADAT lightpipe without a separate clock...

You can do it, but I wouldn't want to.

[grantis]

marcel wrote on Thu, 28 August 2008 09:38

Does the 002 accept a BNC wordclock signal?  I'd be leery of using ADAT lightpipe without a separate clock... You can do it, but I wouldn't want to.

Nooooooooo.  It cannot.  ANOTHER one of the intentional limitations of the premier LE interface.  I'm guessing...so there's another reason to get HD.

[brett]

grant richard wrote on Thu, 28 August 2008 23:19

marcel wrote on Thu, 28 August 2008 09:38 Does the 002 accept a BNC wordclock signal?  I'd be leery of using ADAT lightpipe without a separate clock... You can do it, but I wouldn't want to. Nooooooooo.  It cannot.  ANOTHER one of the intentional limitations of the premier LE interface.  I'm guessing...so there's another reason to get HD.

if you do not have the money for hd right now, m-audio has some PTLE solutions that might interface better with the apogee. I do know a producer who used an 001 with adat to the rosetta 800. his stuff sounded good. doesn't lightpipe send the clock with the data? I think just the two devices should be find. though wordclock really begins to make a difference when using multiple devices...

[grantis]

brett wrote on Fri, 29 August 2008 00:35

grant richard wrote on Thu, 28 August 2008 23:19 marcel wrote on Thu, 28 August 2008 09:38 Does the 002 accept a BNC wordclock signal?  I'd be leery of using ADAT lightpipe without a separate clock... You can do it, but I wouldn't want to. Nooooooooo.  It cannot.  ANOTHER one of the intentional limitations of the premier LE interface.  I'm guessing...so there's another reason to get HD. if you do not have the money for hd right now, m-audio has some PTLE solutions that might interface better with the apogee. I do know a producer who used an 001 with adat to the rosetta 800. his stuff sounded good. doesn't lightpipe send the clock with the data? I think just the two devices should be find. though wordclock really begins to make a difference when using multiple devices...

Yes, the clock does transfer via ADAT along with 8 channels of digital audio.

[marcel]

brett wrote on Thu, 28 August 2008 22:35

grant richard wrote on Thu, 28 August 2008 23:19 marcel wrote on Thu, 28 August 2008 09:38 Does the 002 accept a BNC wordclock signal?  I'd be leery of using ADAT lightpipe without a separate clock... You can do it, but I wouldn't want to. Nooooooooo.  It cannot.  ANOTHER one of the intentional limitations of the premier LE interface.  I'm guessing...so there's another reason to get HD. if you do not have the money for hd right now, m-audio has some PTLE solutions that might interface better with the apogee. I do know a producer who used an 001 with adat to the rosetta 800. his stuff sounded good. doesn't lightpipe send the clock with the data? I think just the two devices should be find. though wordclock really begins to make a difference when using multiple devices...

Yeah, I have a thing called a Profire Lightbridge made by M-audio.  It's cheap (in both senses) and has few features, but it allows me to run 2 Rosetta 800s into PT M-powered via ADAT, with a proper clock via BNC.  Music Production Toolkit and a fast computer, it's a pretty usable rig.

You can send clock over lightpipe, but it's apparently very prone to jitter this way.

[mixwell]

marcel wrote on Wed, 27 August 2008 23:53

I dunno, Adam.  If you had a stereo pair with one side on the interface and the other on the converters, it could get weird. Other than that, phase relationships on a multi-mic drum kit are continuously variable anyways, with mic choice and placement, preamp choice, EQ and/or dynamics.  All of these things have some degree of phase shift inherent in them.  Adding another factor to this is not ideal, but I think you would unconsciously account for it while dialling in the sounds, no?

Phase Shift is the enemy Marcel, I would never send drum mikes through two AD converters......never.

[Tomas Danko]

mixwell wrote on Fri, 29 August 2008 19:38

marcel wrote on Wed, 27 August 2008 23:53 I dunno, Adam.  If you had a stereo pair with one side on the interface and the other on the converters, it could get weird. Other than that, phase relationships on a multi-mic drum kit are continuously variable anyways, with mic choice and placement, preamp choice, EQ and/or dynamics.  All of these things have some degree of phase shift inherent in them.  Adding another factor to this is not ideal, but I think you would unconsciously account for it while dialling in the sounds, no? Phase Shift is the enemy Marcel, I would never send drum mikes through two AD converters......never.

That would mean you're aiming more than eight microphones towards the kit. If that's how to float one's boat then ok, but...

As long as you don't spread the drum kit across the converters I think you'll be just fine.

[johnR]

mixwell wrote on Fri, 29 August 2008 19:38

Phase Shift is the enemy Marcel, I would never send drum mikes through two AD converters......never.

Strictly speaking, you're doing just that if you use more than two channels for drums. The standard pro audio converter chips used in most interfaces have two channels. A 16 channel interface has 8 of them. OK, they're running off the same clock, but that's also the case when running several interfaces from a common master clock.

Running a stereo pair through two different types of converter would most likely cause phase problems due to the different amounts of conversion latency (not an issue where all converters are the same type).

Similarly, splitting a stereo pair across an interface running on internal clock and another one slaved to that can also give phase problems because the slave interface is likely to receive its clock signal slightly later than the ADCs in the master interface.

[mixwell]

johnR wrote on Sat, 30 August 2008 08:04

mixwell wrote on Fri, 29 August 2008 19:38 Phase Shift is the enemy Marcel, I would never send drum mikes through two AD converters......never. Strictly speaking, you're doing just that if you use more than two channels for drums. The standard pro audio converter chips used in most interfaces have two channels. A 16 channel interface has 8 of them. OK, they're running off the same clock, but that's also the case when running several interfaces from a common master clock. Running a stereo pair through two different types of converter would most likely cause phase problems due to the different amounts of conversion latency (not an issue where all converters are the same type). Similarly, splitting a stereo pair across an interface running on internal clock and another one slaved to that can also give phase problems because the slave interface is likely to receive its clock signal slightly later than the ADCs in the master interface.

EDIT :

Quote:

Phase Shift is the enemy Marcel, I would never send drum mikes through two DIFFERENT BRANDS OF AD converters......never.

[marcel]

mixwell wrote on Sat, 30 August 2008 11:37

EDIT : Quote: Phase Shift is the enemy Marcel, I would never send drum mikes through two DIFFERENT BRANDS OF AD converters......never.

Yeah, totally with you there.  I thought you were talking about 2 similar units.

[Datcha]

can I just add that IME the polarity of the DA converters of the 002 reverses when working in low latency mode.

It jumps back to normal when switched off.

And I've never been able to get the ADAT connected external AD/DA's (in my case RME) work reliably in Low 'w8&see' Mode.

Frank Duch

[Podgorny]

Can't really speak for the 002, as I've never recorded anything with one.
But the 003's converters are quite usable, IMHO.  And the thing DOES have Wordclock connections.

Regarding the claim that the 002s inability to record 16 simultaneous tracks at higher sample rates was an intentional limitation, please keep in mind that the ADAT format technically does not support sample rates above 48k.

And about the usage of different converters on phase-critical material.  The latency introduced by converters is DELAY.  This is different from phase issues resulting from improper mic placement, and unlike true phase problems can be corrected after the fact.