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Author Topic: Dither Question  (Read 1758 times)

Mars75

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Dither Question
« on: August 26, 2008, 08:50:05 am »

Hello,
I mixed/mastered(I do Mix and master together with analog and digital processing) a project at 16/44 with PT. Now I have my tracks recorded.

Should I apply dither 16 bit+noise shaping through 'bounce to disk' because PT works at higher bit rate, right? Isn't enough to export them as file stereo, right?
The tracks are already limited with L2 hardware so if I do bounce to disk (16/44 with dither plug) should I have some problems?

And If I would like to use some other SRC/dither like sample manager, how should I export the tracks before to not have truncment?

I have also Hedd (when I process the mix I left it at 24=dither bypass) and L2 maybe I could use them for dither. Should be enough put them in insert and select 16 bit, right?

Thank you
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Andrew Hamilton

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Re: Dither Question
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2008, 09:42:35 am »

Mars75 wrote on Tue, 26 August 2008 08:50

Hello,
I mixed/mastered(I do Mix and master together with analog and digital processing) a project at 16/44 with PT. Now I have my tracks recorded.


Wow. Mixing _and_ mastering.  A Renaissance man?  Or the other type of multi-talented chap? (;  Seriously, no one should
master his own mixes.   Where's the objectivity in that?  Did you at least "master" in a different studio?  If not, as Dave Davis has been preaching for about a decade, the acoustical and quality-related problems of monitoring in the mixing room are still there.  With all due respect, all you've done most likely is harm the mix with respect to its optimal potential...

Mars75 wrote on Tue, 26 August 2008 08:50


Should I apply dither 16 bit+noise shaping through 'bounce to disk' because PT works at higher bit rate, right?...


PT could have given you 24 bit mixes, but you chose to open and start a 16 bit session.  Although the DSP was done at either 32 bit floating-point  (for LE systems) or 48 bit fixed-point math (for TDM/HD systems),  by operating the session in 16 bit, you have told PT to truncate, or dither, depending on the internal settings, all channel outputs to 16 bits per word.  Better would have been to mix in a 24 bit session so that the mix files could be given to a mastering engineer with better resolution of low level detail.  

Mars75 wrote on Tue, 26 August 2008 08:50


Isn't enough to export them as file stereo, right?
The tracks are already limited with L2 hardware so if I do bounce to disk (16/44 with dither plug) should I have some problems?



Did you use any dither within the L2 plug in?  If so, and the dither was set to 16 bits, even if you had been working in a 24 bit PT session, the audio in the mix file would already be properly dithered for burning to CD.  Only, in that case, you would still probably need to truncate the file to 16 bit (by exporting a copy as 16 bit _without_ dither), unless you used a CD burning application like soundBlade, or SADiE, which allows for cutting directly from a 24 bit file (with, or without dither).  A 24 bit file with 16 bit dither added only needs the last 8 bits of each word to be lopped off.  A 24 bit file with only 24 bit dither added (a quieter amount of random noise than in 16 bit dither), would still need to have more random noise added prior to truncation (this can be done in a way that seems simultaneous to the operator, but the noise still gets added first, then La Guillotine digitale...).

Mars75 wrote on Tue, 26 August 2008 08:50


And If I would like to use some other SRC/dither like sample manager, how should I export the tracks before to not have truncation?



Truncation is not always a bad thing.  As I mentioned above, if a 24 bit file already has had 16 bit dither added (as would happen when using, say, Waves' L2 with 16 bit dither on the master fader within a 24 bit PT session, then what you want to do next is truncate (without adding any more noise).  But if only 24 bit, or no, dither has been added to the 24 bit file, truncation, alone, would be bad.  That's when you'd add a 16 bit dither before  export.

Why do you want to convert the sample rate (i.e., SRC)?  You said it was at 44.1k.  Are you interested in authoring a 48k, or higher Fs, DVD?  CD is only 44.1k, so, if that's the delivery format, you're already there...


Mars75 wrote on Tue, 26 August 2008 08:50


I have also Hedd (when I process the mix I left it at 24=dither bypass) and L2 maybe I could use them for dither. Should be enough put them in insert and select 16 bit, right?...


You can use Waves IDR for 16 bit dither.  You can use PT AudioSuite dither (with, or without Noise Shaping).  You can use the L2's selectable dither.  There are numerous choices.  But 16 bit dither should only be applied once - at the very end of the job.  



Andrew


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Mars75

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Re: Dither Question
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2008, 10:12:55 am »

Thanks for the reply!

A Renaissance Man? Maybe!! but I do in this way simply because
my customers ask for it!! (please no lesson about advantages of the mastering done by an external person! I know them!)

And yes I always record at 24 bit and then I use sample manager for SRC if I'm at 96 and dither...but this case is different (it's a mix of files done by others) and it's the reason why I have written. No I didn't use any dither in L2 (it's the hardware) and Hedd, so now I have to apply.
You are all right, I 'd have had to open a 24 bit session.
However now bounce to disk with dither plug can be a good solution?
Or should be better use Hedd or L2 insert with dither on?
and is Noise shaping better to use?

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