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[breathe]

How much control did bands in the past have over the mixes of their records?  It seems like with some famous engineers the 'style' they had established was easily repeatable by them (like Andy Johns), but for many records the mix was left to an engineer whose logic was either his own preference, or based on some vague perception of what the 'public' wanted, usually an interpretation of a tired cliche about to go out of style anyways.  So, are bands these days working with Pro Tools getting the mixes that they want?  Engineers please chime in.

Nicholas

[Rawk]

Hi there,

I'd like to mention that a big factor on this subject is also the skill of the musician. Nowadays all those (indie-)bands come in to the studio, setup their gear (always too much gain) with to many channels, bits and things, and all that kind of stuff. Especially guitarist are tapdancing a lot.
The thing they lack is mastery of their instrument & gear.

I play & record myself (also with my band) and fortunatly my band exists of musicians that know how to play their instrument well (i.e. adjusting volumes while playing creating natural  dynamics), and they have already created the sound on their gear that they want to hear...and interact very well on eachoter. A lot of musicians don't even think about that stuff.

When I record my band, ll I do is setup the gear, volume, and go. i.e. if we do an all in recording...then things are set right in the beginning and when I go mixing I really have to do little to be satisfied...because everyting is good from source (including volumes) and I use mic bleeding to create a full sound.

If you go record a band with lots of tapdancers on guitars, no mastery of their instruments and stuff like that...you have to do a lot of work and automation will be very handy...but not necesary. Every body can play in a band...but not everybody can play well...and not every band is good (live and/or in the studio). I know...I know...we can not pick the band we want to record, so yes I am guilty of saying something stupid like this, but...

before all this automation stuff in recording, musicians had to be able to play well, because otherwise people would hear it on the end result. No messing around.

Those (indie-)bands are lucky bastards...lots of soft to medium sounding couplets and than BANG! the chorus is max gain. No dynamics at all. It's so easy...it's so not art. We (people who record them) make them sound good...while in fact they are not.

This makes recording a bit boring...but once you get a band with great musicians, you get a BIG f...ing smile on your face.

Cheers!

[rankus]

breathe wrote on Tue, 23 September 2008 00:32

How much control did bands in the past have over the mixes of their records?  It seems like with some famous engineers the 'style' they had established was easily repeatable by them (like Andy Johns)

And I'm sure if being candid he would say that there are many mixes out there of his that don't sound like "him" depending on musicianship, song, him having an off day, interpersonal issues etc.

I'm just saying that going to one of these top guys does not ensure that you will be made into Led Zep or others.


As for infinite recall ability.  I am cursing this today as I am going to recall a mix for a client (because he knows I can) and tweak his vocal levels ... again... and again... and again... and again... this has literally been going on for months with this client.

Truth is the songs are not strong and he is looking for answers in the mixing.

Infinite recall... both a blessing and a curse!

[kats]

rankus wrote on Tue, 23 September 2008 23:07

breathe wrote on Tue, 23 September 2008 00:32 How much control did bands in the past have over the mixes of their records?  It seems like with some famous engineers the 'style' they had established was easily repeatable by them (like Andy Johns) Truth is the songs are not strong and he is looking for answers in the mixing.

That's my personal belief. When your asked for recalls, even little ones, it is indicative of a bigger problem - something just isn't working. Be it the performance, arrangement, or the mix as a whole - it's a bust.

[Rawk]

aaaah man...THAT is really frustrating.

The thing is...it's his music and ofcourse he is feeling the proud man about it. You as an engineer hope to get the cli

[marcel]

Good songwriting isn't really something you can suggest, or even teach.  People either get there or they don't.

AFA recalls, I have a little system.  I ask the artist up front whether or not they would like to have recall capabilities, making it clear to them that this option will make both the initial mix session longer and more expensive, and will be charged as studio time during the recall itself.

I plan my time based on what they say.  Anything can be done, no matter how much of a PITA it is.  The problem is that (from what I have seen) recalls often get done for free, which is why so many guys grow to hate them.

I make it clear that this is not the way I work.

And I print lots of alternates, regardless.

[Rawk]

the way to go mate!

[brett]

Well, there are just too many options nowadays to be picky about how and what to offer clients. Having a console is great and mixes can sound great on them. They can also come out bad. Or the arrangement might need tweeking. But mixes can sound great mixed entirly in the box as well especially when summing outside.

Indie bands songs are always changing and evolving as they grow and as they interact with record industry professionals. The option to pull up tracks in any studio and make changes or add to or re-arrange is just part of what they need.

It is different if it is a big label act and they hire a specific engineer and producer who have a trade mark style and sound they are after. But when "the sound" of a band is still evolving and the identity isn't quite there yet, they want the option to go back and make changes without starting over. And if it is expensive and time consuming you've already lost them.  

[kats]

Quote:

Well, there are just too many options nowadays to be picky about how and what to offer clients. Having a console is great and mixes can sound great on them. They can also come out bad. Or the arrangement might need tweeking. But mixes can sound great mixed entirly in the box as well especially when summing outside.

That's fine, but the discussion is moot unless we speak from a point of "all things being equal".

That said, your right - being able to get excellent results fast is the key. Whatever works for you is best.