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[ella]

Hi!

Due to incessant crackling despite repeated cleaning with cailube, I am getting inside my faders and finding lots of horrible goo which I am cleaning off. The brushes look to be pretty much worn out and someone before me made a real mess out of some of them (but as yet none of the bristles are broken) so I am going to try to find replacements, hopefully in stock at Manco. My question is, will I be able to determine if the conductive tracks are also worn out by looking at them? Maybe by some other means? The channels are clean sounding when the faders are static. I have a feeling that there may be excessive wear due to contaminants getting into the fader because the right side of the stereo faders crackle while the left doesn't, and the construction of the fader is such that the right side seems more exposed. It is by far the dirtiest side too.

Thanks.

PS.. Just in case;

Stereo balanced fader D28704 1552/AH35
Mono balanced fader D23106 1550/A

For both (luckily);
Contact board SA38619
Stereo track D460152

as far as I can tell, anyways...

[Jakob Erland]

If you have cracking noises ocurring despite of cleaning, chances are that you have DC standing on your fader. This will be caused by worn-out electrolytic or tantalum capacitors (or a bad design, but I don't suspect that).

Change the associated capacitors, clean the tracks (with demineralized water, NOT alcohol), and see if problem's gone..

Jakob E.

[ella]

Hey, thanks for the response!

I think you may be referring to a much newer and more sophisticated fader than the ones in my old desk. These things have a conductive surface, some brushes that slide back and forth and a spot to plug into. That's about it for working parts, besides the microswitches which don't involve normal fader operation (at least how I am working right now).

I interchanged a non-crackly fader from one of the subgroups with a crackly one from one of the stereo line input modules and the problem followed the fader (same cracles in the same area of fader travel), suggesting to me that the issue is located in the brush/contact. These faders are stock with the desk and are therefore over 20 years old. When I initially cleaned them it was like cleaning a toaster-tray.... some shmoe must have spent 20 years eating burgers right over the thing (sesame seeds galore). I haven't found much evidence of sticky spills but there was a lot of black goo all over the contact surfaces which I am currently cleaning by spraying cailube on a Q-tip and gently rubbing off.

Maybe it's just time to replace all moving parts and be done with it. O well.

[Geoff_T]

ella wrote on Mon, 24 May 2004 18:32

Hi! Due to incessant crackling despite repeated cleaning with cailube...

Hi

Oooo... I don't like spraying anything out of a can onto P & G conductive tracks. The best way is to remove the track from the fader and wash with soapy water, then rinse it off and dry with a clean cloth gently dabbing on the track.

You can get brushes from Dale Manquen

Dale@manquen.net

[Geoff_T]

ella wrote on Tue, 25 May 2004 13:29

Maybe it's just time to replace all moving parts and be done with it. O well.

Hi

A PS to my previous post...

There are PTFE collared bushes that mount inside the carriage assembly and these tend to wear after 20 or 30 years of use. I'd suggest replacing these and the brushes as the first line of repair.

Use a teeny amount of lubricant on the bars that the wiper carriage rides on as a finishing touch.

[John Klett]

The fader you are describing are essentially the same fader you can buy today.  Today the P&G 3000 series faders are more commonly used and they are built differently - they use an aluminum extrusion and are harder to service. The older 1100 and 1500 series faders are still available and so are the parts.

Dale Manquen has info's up at

http://www.manquen.net/png/

As to your sound to me like someone had been spraying crap - like Cramolin or CAIG stuff in there for years and it had built up to make a nice goo.

On 1100 and 1500 faders you can take the side off that hold the conductive plastic element and clean it with - generally you should use nothing more than water with maybe a drop of JOY dish detergent in it.  Problem is that the goo buildup my not dissolve in water and depending on what it is you may have a problem.

Buying elements, bushings and brushes for those will almost certainly cost you MORE than a new 3000 series fader so talk to Dale Manquen...  he'll give you all the info.

As far as lubricating faders after they are cleaned and worn parts replaced.  There is a silicon lubricant made by Dow Corning that P&G repackages as P&G oil.  Some people use this both on the metal rods and on the element itself.  I just do the rods...  For the fader element I use a dry film lubricant called DFL and not very much.  Dale can tell you about that too - he turned me on to it.

[ella]

Thank you so much for the info!

I suppose it makes more sense to just replace them all as the parts are damn expensive. I just hate the idea of tossing things in the trash, especially when I know that they COULD be returned to service. They are over 20 yrs old though and had good lives... damn. Maybe I can use them to cobble some franken-faders together and add some more subgroups or build a sidecar or something.

Again, thank you for the responses!

[Geoff_T]

ella wrote on Fri, 04 June 2004 09:03

Thank you so much for the info! I suppose it makes more sense to just replace them all as the parts are damn expensive. I just hate the idea of tossing things in the trash, especially when I know that they COULD be returned to service. They are over 20 yrs old though and had good lives... damn. Maybe I can use them to cobble some franken-faders together and add some more subgroups or build a sidecar or something. Again, thank you for the responses!

Hi

I just have a nagging doubt about this "replace 1500 with 3000/8000" concept... not because of an electrical or cost issue, but because they have different fixings and you may need to do a little drilling/metal bashing to get them to fit where t'others went.

[ella]

Yes, that is a distinct possibility. However, there are two things currently in my favor;

1) It is a fully modular board, and with the exception of the main dimensions it is possible to make alterations without messing with any major structural components (it would still require some drilling and tapping but what the hell). I don't necessarily want to go to that extreme but if it comes down to it, I will.

2) Since I have already stripped, cleaned, rewired (in parts), modded, calibrated and installed the thing my fear threshold regarding diving in and getting my hands dirty has risen significantly.

Either way, the current faders are largely unusable. Since I was initially looking for analog summing and suddenly ended up with a console, I can still use it as such. It just kinda feels like I'm using a porsche as a wheelbarrow, hence my desire to get it fully functional.

Thanks again!